Melting Northwest Passage lets Pacific Species Cross

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:41 am

Compelling story...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-c ... ml?ref=rss

Let's hope this time they're not hunted to extinction!

Barb

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:39 pm

Very interesting.
The Panama canal could potentially have done the same thing, but the designers a century ago put a freshwater barrier (the Gatun Lake) in the middle: ships go from salt water, through fresh water and then back to salt water on the other side. Only a few fish species are known to have been able to get through despite this.
The cold water of the melting arctic will presumably block many species, but not as effectively as the ingenious freshwater barrier in the Panama canal.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:28 pm

Good point Erik.

100 years ago, there wasn't any awareness of what greed would create.

Barb

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:40 pm

Sorry if I hijacked an interesting thread to talk about tropical fish. I've been reading up on pacific lionfish in the Caribbean recently. Leading hypothesis: escaped from hobbyists....

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:40 pm

No hijack at all Erik.
Pacific lionfish have migrated to the Caribbean?
Haven't read anything on it.

Whales reinhabiting the Atlantic might be the only positive outcome of no arctic ice.
Like I said earlier, I hope they're not hunted to extinction again.
Sorry state of affairs 100 years ago.
Things are better, and yet in other aspects, they're not.

Barb

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:03 pm

No reason for you to have known about it, but apparently lionfish (native to the pacific ocean; very pretty) were popular in the aquarium hobby in Florida. Somehow a few escaped/were released.
http://www.belizemarinetrec.com/2011/04 ... h-species/
They are multiplying like crazy as the predatory fish in the caribbean don't know they have venomous spines. Ouch! I saw lots of them on every dive I took in December, but had not seen them in about a 100 dives in the previous decade. They eat native fish, including juveniles of the tasty grouper and snapper that fishermen depend on for their livelihoods.
Not palm-related, but it should remind all of us hobbyists to at least be aware of what we are doing. After all, we wouldn't want vast forests of Trachycarpus now, would we?

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:11 am

Its becasue people flush them, o rjust release them when they dont want them anymore. Generaly id rather seen them released, but not at the risk of the carribeam ecosystem.

Then again, weve messed up ecosystems so much, is it really a bad thing to introduce species anymore? We are just speeding up ( dramaticaly) a natrual event. We get worried about a fish, yet, we still havnt fully realized implications of spreading around food crops around the world.

Paul Ont · Post by **Paul Ont** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:53 am

My favorite are the people who complain about transgenic plants, yet have no concept of HGT!

Anyway, it is interesting to hear the the NWP has opened up enough to let Grey Whales back in the Atlantic. I wonder if the population could adapt and become viable once more???

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:43 am

HGT is Horizontal Gene Transfer? Is it jsut random transfering of genes without sexual reproduction ( im assuming that includes asexual reproduction?). I didnt even know that was possible..

I wouldnt be suprised if they adapted. They were in the atlantic before, probably because of the absence of panama a few million years ago, which inevitably causes the NW passage to freeze or vise versa i guess?? Either way, were the only predator that will usualy attack whales. I bet theyd adapt fine if we just got out of their way.

TimMAz6 · Post by **TimMAz6** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:52 pm

why couldn't the grey whales migrate around Chile/Argintina to get to Spain/Isreal? That's always ice free? These whales are typically spotted off Baja California......perhaps they kept going with the magnetic reversal going on?? Too much gloom in the article. I see this news as positive not negative. I guess your glass is either half full or half empty.

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:17 am

The waters might be to tubulent for them to make it ( unlikley), underneath s america......

I can see the magnetic pole movement to play into it. They have that built in "compass" so they know their migration routes. Then again, ocean temps are rising a bit. A point of a percentage on average is quite a warm up.

If anything, its a sign that things are changing, and as the article suggests, the north is getting warm. Theres been polar bear sigtings south of james bay, away from open water. Polar bears are just adapted grizzly bears. Instead of migrating they chose to stay and adapt.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:25 pm

I see this news as positive not negative

Agree with that 100% Tim!

The half full/half empty glass is a perfect analogy.

Barb