Anyone in zone 6/7 grown a Pindo?

kspalmguy · Post by **kspalmguy** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:23 pm

Hello all:) I recently bought a Butia capitata (pindo) that is about four feet tall. For winter protection, I am planning on tying the fronds up and covering with a temporary greenhouse like structure. I was wondering if anyone else has grown these this far north/inland...I am located just outside Wichita, KS...also, what are the chances of this palm fruiting here? Thanks!

teebee · Post by **teebee** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:08 pm

Coconut Mike just had a Pindo fruit in he's in Zone 5A (Montreal) not exactly sure what protection method he uses on the Pindo.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:37 pm

I think Mike uses is 2 inch? (or thicker) Styrofoam enclosure, then wraps it all up and uses 1 small light bulb on a thermocube to add light..and to a degree heat inside. He over winters quite a few on his property that way, so he must have a great place to store those Styrofoam panels when not is use.

905palms · Post by **905palms** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:43 pm

Pindo's only fruit at minimum 8'-10ft, 10-12 years specimens at least. Unfortunately a 4' Pindo, may have to wait a few years yet, as they are relatively slow growers.
Styrofoam box method is usually the best bet. Fertilize Spring and Summer only, with lots of water in the first few years. Dry soil to overwinter.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:46 pm

I've asked Mike to do a detailed video of his process. With all of his success, guess I don't know why more of us don't simply copy his method. Styrofoam is cheap, but I still would have to deal with storage with all the palms I have, plus 1 light bulb would be less costly to have on than a string of Christmas lights.

Beny · Post by **Beny** » Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:44 am

I try this winter the mummywrapping protection on 3 Butia, 1 at my home and 2 at my customers north of Montréal. I verified few time the one i have at my home, and its looking alive with a few burn tips at the top of the palm ( i opened the top for evacuating the excess of heat, thats what cause the burn tips). If that method works, it will be easier to protect all palms. No more box.
Ill post videos soon when the temp. will warm up.
Check on my Youtube channel Under expression tropicale for more videos !

Ben

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:46 am

Will be anxious to see the videos. I would assume moisture held so close to the trunk would rot it or damage it in some way.

Beny · Post by **Beny** » Sat Feb 15, 2014 2:19 pm

I sprayed the palms with fongicide/bactericide before, there s a space of about 1-2 inches between the palm and the protection. Thats allow the moisture to go to the ground. And i made an opening on the side and the top of the protection to allow some ventilation. And for now it work not to bad

...

Ben

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Sat Feb 15, 2014 2:21 pm

Will look forward to your videos.

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Sat Feb 15, 2014 4:31 pm

This video goes over how I did it:
http://youtu.be/GlUKrxCVVgw

Hope it helps. I love pindo palms, but not easy.

miketropic · Post by **miketropic** » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:33 am

good video..where did the waggies come from cus im gunna need a new one..

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:11 am

Waggies from Cistus and Jungle Music. Pindo palms were from local box stores, Lowes and Home depot.

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:05 am

Heres a pic of mine,between the Washy and Takil.

If you want one to fruit soon -just plant as big a one as you can get.

<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/user/orbea6 ... 3.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0df7a3.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 100_7659_zps0f0df7a3.jpg"/></a>

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:01 pm

OP, drive down to the Dallas Farmer's Market in March or April. Very large pindo palm specimens are for sale. Bring a large pickup truck (and tarp) or a van. Can be a long day trip from Wichita or a pleasant weekend. Drop by the Dallas Aquarium to admire the colossal Chilean wine palm while you are there, and eat at an In-and-Out burger to admire the crossed palmettos.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:04 pm

Hardy Jim....Didn't know you had a Pindo in the ground. How long has it been in the ground and do you over winter it like your other palms?

Is it just a regular Pindo?

kspalmguy · Post by **kspalmguy** » Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:14 pm

Wow Jim..nice palm garden!

And TerdalFarm, is the Dallas Farmer's Market still downtown, or has it moved?

-Jacob

chadec · Post by **chadec** » Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:42 pm

Jim at first I didnt see the pindo next to that washy. I thought it was some grass because that sucker is getting big.....

I too am interested in watching more protection methods for next winter. There are several already on you tube. I do perfer the box methods over others. I guess after the destruction to my pindos this yr I will start using foam panels and wooden frames. As 18" of snow colapsed several cold frames. Even my sabal palmetto frame which is wood and wrapped with plastic is leaning. I should have used a solid roof.

Live and learn!

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:36 pm

Jacob,
it is here:
http://www.dallasfarmersmarket.org/maps ... tions.html

The palm vendors are in the blocks surrounding the market itself.
That link has a link to the Google map image and if you zoom in, you can see palm trees for sale. Yes, that is how big they are.

kspalmguy · Post by **kspalmguy** » Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:00 pm

Awesome thanks for the link! Dang! Those Sabals are huge! I wonder if any of those would fit in the back of my dad's Toyota Highlander? D:

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:58 pm

Nope. How long a trailer can that thing tow? Check with U-Haul.

kspalmguy · Post by **kspalmguy** » Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:36 pm

Highlander doesn't have a hitch, but we have a Ford pickup also...I'd probably want to take it:) Haha...anyway, any idea how much $$ for one of those Sabals?

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:04 pm

I think the Butia Eriospatha has been in 4-5 years now.

Its covered with a poncho and a tarp.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:18 am

@Jim...is that species more cold hardy than others? any heat at all?? Christmas lights or heat tape?

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:14 am

I dont use heat tape,X-mas lights are cheaper...I could never heat all my palms with heat cables-just to expensive.

I think there are about 20 C-9 lights in the Butia enclosure-180wts.

Eriospatha may be hardier than the other Butia varieties but there is a large range in hardiness
in individual plants so I wouldn't want to make a claim on any of them.

I can't believe how some people rap there palms with heat tape...I have seen a cover
wrapped around the palm and then heat tape,I wonder how the heat tape is supposed to warm the palm
when it is on the outside the cover...?

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:20 am

Well I meant using it to wrap Round the root ball, buried in the ground. Ones I use are meant to keep pipes from freezing and have built in thermostats much like a thermocline.

Googled that species and is cold hardier and doesn't mind wetter winter conditions.

905palms · Post by **905palms** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:51 am

hardyjim wrote:I dont use heat tape,X-mas lights are cheaper...I could never heat all my palms with heat cables-just to expensive.

I think there are about 20 C-9 lights in the Butia enclosure-180wts.

I can't believe how some people rap there palms with heat tape...I have seen a cover
wrapped around the palm and then heat tape,I wonder how the heat tape is supposed to warm the palm
when it is on the outside the cover...?

I agree. My 12' S. Palmetto has the heat cable under ground and 2 strings of 20 lights above. The heat cable is too warm for the foliage as I cooked a few fronds, so I took affirmative action and unplugged the cable and went with the lights, and are much better now.

Many don't seem to like the look of a Palmetto as they are weeds in the SE. However, for their hardiness, I prefer them over the look of a Windmill. Besides, for my 2 cents, they are slower growers and you can keep the same boxes longer...

905palms · Post by **905palms** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:00 am

Verdict: In a box, Butia with heat cable in root ball plus 20 Xmas lights above grade, are a winner. Heat cable underground only when it dips below -8C (17F) occasionally as a precaution, the snow should insulate the ground, therefore you don't have to leave it plugged all winter long... crazy expensive. Larger the specimen the better.
Also,Buita in a box, wind-chill temps don't matter.

Beny · Post by **Beny** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:41 am

Sure the box method is the best for now, but i try to find another way to protect bigger palms. With the wrapping, i think it s the way to do that! I used heattape, it warm to about 50c, maybe it burn some leaves who touched directly the cable. I try the LED lights cordon (for Christmas decoration), 30 feets for 54 watts. For now its work well and cost less than heatcable. Under the wrapping, the probe never indicated Under -3c even at -30c outside.
I think we only have to do the same as we re doing for insulating our house.

For a 8 foots windmill: 54 watts LED cordon plugged into a T3 with 12 feets heatcable on the ground with is own thermostat, than wrap with water-vapor barier (not to tight, leaving 1-2 inches air space) i use the 1/2 inches insulation for water hot reservoir, add 2-3 inches pinkpanther fiberglass insulation then tarp. Thats it

Like that, its the same thing for insulating an house, if for us its work why not for the palms

...

Ben

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:34 am

Jacob,
the sky is the limit on sizes/prices.
But, I have to suggest, if you are going to spend $500 -- $1,000 on a single specimen palm, I'd go with w Trachycarpus. Maybe spend "just" $300 on a large pindo and protect the heck out of it. (Well, the tall Trachy, too!)
Share photos of your trip for us. --Erik

kspalmguy · Post by **kspalmguy** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:36 am

Thanks Erik, good advice...and I'll definitely share pics!! I imagine I won't go til mid March, that way those guys can go right in the ground as soon as I get em home

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:27 am

I think trying to heat the ground under the palm is a waste.

If the ground gets cold enough (with a boatload of mulch over your palms)
to freeze,you cant grow palms there anyway,I think putting heat tape around the roots would
just dry them out(worst case senario)....I have seen the temps around my Washy @ 4" be 33F to 34F
when I peeled back the mulch in spring-no harm done.

As the roots spread out though,you do need to spread mulch over a wider area,this would probably
not effect Trachys to much but Washys roots will die back to the trunk if damaged-the bigger they get
the more(potentially)the roots can get pinched off by the cold as they reach out from the palms with age.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:57 am

As the roots spread out though,you do need to spread mulch over a wider area

Or a wider "circle" of C-9s.

Does anybody know if Washies, for example, have "pancake roots"? or do roots tend to stay narrow and go straight down?

I've seen pics of older Trachies and Phoenix being dug up.
Phoenix roots are really fibrous, supposedly they can take a very harsh root pruning.
My own CIDP is proof of that, half the roots broke off when lifting with the tractor.

Always surprised how narrow a rootball is taken with those two, but then again, no idea if survival is iffy (except with my Phoenix).

Barb

kspalmguy · Post by **kspalmguy** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:02 am

Barb, how is your CIDP doing? I'd be willing to try one of those down here in Kansas, but first, I'd like to know how they do up further north;)

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:21 pm

My CIDP's is in a garbage can pot

Never been in the ground.

But I have to make a decision soon...too many years to keep it that rootbound.
And they do love a 50% root pruning...well, maybe not LOVE, but it survived losing 50% of its roots.

Barb

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:27 pm

Jim, I think your right about heat tape around the root ball maybe having a drying out affect. Thought that this year with the super cold we had(worst in 30 years) and lack of snow. Since I have so many palms with heat tape around the root ball, this Winter I will only plug in master cord to them all if temps dip below 0-5F otherwise will just use more mulch. Heck, in the fall the box stores almost give the stuff away to avoid keeping it around over the winter, plus I'd be buying it in the spring anyway since I use so much of it in my normal landscaping.

Good time to adjust the winterization plan...

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:39 am

When you think about how much mass the soil has it seems unlikely the temp would go up much...
soil is not a great conductor of heat...

I think some 2" foam would need to be made into an underground box with the heat tape at the bottom.
Maybe this way you could actually keep a warmer pocket around the palm....eventually the roots would find their way out.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:55 am

Keep in mind the heat tape has it's own built in thermostat(at least the ones I use do) and it's located just a few inches from where it plugs in so it is inside the protecting itself(in most of my in the ground palms) so really, as long as the christmas lights inside keep temps in the say upper 30's at least, the heat tape won't come on anyway so it's really a second tier type of protection for really super cold times.

That being said I had a nice Needle palm in the ground from Jungle Music for a couple of years. Planted on the South side of my garage, I would only put a 1/2 plastic industrial barrel over it to protect it from cold winds. Usually I didn't even cover it, but if we had say freezing rain coming I have 2x2 ft plexiglass I get from work that I would just lay over the top to keep it dry. I did plant it with 6ft of heat tape though and thermostat was out in the elements so would naturally come on(indicator light) so I knew it was working. It sailed along for two winters slowly growing and looking good until this past super cold winter and I thought I would do it some good and I added 1 string of C7 christmas lights inside the 1/2 barrel when temps were going to drop to -15F.

The very next day..I looked and the fronds had all turned brown...dried up.

It wasn't until later in the spring that I found out that Needle palms LIKE lots of water and I had thought different the whole time and only let it get water when it rained. That factor, combined with the fact that we had almost no snow this winter...just severe cold helped it along to it's demise.

Learning from mistakes, I bought a beautiful 2 gallon Needle Palm from Steve Anderson and planted it close to first spot, but further out from the house so it gets more rain water...along with additional that I give it, plus it won't get as baked by the sun like the first one did. I did not however bury heat tape with this one. I will protect it with a frost cloth and the 1/2 barrel this winter at least to help it along and maybe have better luck. Pic attached. The little palm in the picture is a Chinese Fan palm that I've had in the ground for a couple of years that only gets very minimal protection at best....yet still comes back. No, it won't get big happy fronds like when I first got it as our season isn't long enough but so far...since we've had a warm and wet spring it's looking the best it ever has. Love these palms for their toughness.

Sorry pic is so dark, storm clouds were rolling in this morning when I was out taking the pic.

Zabola · Post by **Zabola** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 6:15 am

Beautiful needle, nice size.. i protect mine covering it only mine is three times smaller, no heat but winters here are milder and little shorter than Can. northern Am. etc. this is zone 6-7. Yes it likes water and semi shaded position, in winter soil has to be dry.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 6:18 am

This new location it will get 1/2 day sun. Before the one that died was planted just to the right of the down spout in picture which is pretty much full sun, and was closer to the house and the eve of the roof kept it from getting some rain. New one is planted further away from house so will benefit from any rain. My old one was probably pretty dry going into winter anyway so I'm sure it was a combination of a few things that killed it.

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:39 pm

Sounded like it overheated with the X-mas lights...

Always good to have one remote sensor inside the protection to see
how the temps fluctuate...or a T-3 thermocube...about the same price...
but the T-3 cant tell you if your palm is overheating in the sun.