Chickened out on using Heat Tape

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:49 am

With -5C 23F forecast, had to do something for Big Boy, because palm hut is going up next weekend.

But first I installed the tape:

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/southslope/10557202886/" title="004 by edible_plum, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2816/1055 ... da92_c.jpg" width="600" height="800" alt="004"></a>

Wasn't the smartest wrap job but the tape was 30 feet long

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/southslope/10557379903/" title="006 by edible_plum, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5480/1055 ... 34c5_c.jpg" width="600" height="800" alt="006"></a>

After installing the heat tape, re-read the instructions that said not to place it against anything combustible.
All that fibre is combustible, and at 210 watts, was worried about fire.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/southslope/10557177446/" title="008 by edible_plum, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3685/1055 ... 926f_c.jpg" width="600" height="800" alt="008"></a>

Plan B was to wrap all the unopened spears (5 of 'em) with foam underlay (for floors), then the bottom with an old solar pool blanket:

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/southslope/10557403933/" title="009 by edible_plum, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3768/1055 ... 7e49_c.jpg" width="600" height="800" alt="009"></a>

Didn't plug in the heat tape after all.

Barb

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:58 am

I would have. Assuming it is like the heat tape I used to use, it NEVER got hot to the touch. I suspect the warning about combustibles was written by their lawyers.
My suggestion? Turn it on when it will get cold, then go outside and feelit with your bare fingers. Assuming it is like what I had, leave it on. If any part feels unpleasantly hot to bare fingers, turn it off.

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:06 am

I only spoil my Princeps like that but I get it Barb......

A Trachy that size I would not even pay attention unless they are talking below 15F
and even then it really depends on the temps after...next day etc.

I know mine have seen around 12F or so with zero leaf damage even coming out of protection.

The smaller palms are the problem,I will protect these in waves first,smallest to largest,a rising flood of protection.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:48 am

like the heat tape I used to use, it NEVER got hot to the touch

Yes, I remember the discussions we had on it.
And it probably was written by their lawyers.

But I envisioned it being OFF, and then turning on...picturing in my mind what a 210 watt bulb felt like after a few minutes.
And who knows WHAT types these things are?

Funny thing, Eric, we have an old heat tape on an uninsulated barn water line and I have touched it when it was, say, -10C or so.
Just like you said, it was barely warm to the touch.

Yup, Jim, some of your smaller palms are sooooooo precious...agree 100% with starting on them first.

Great way to kill an afternoon anyway.
It was either that or bathe the dog.

Barb

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:29 pm

I would like to brag and say i am ahead of the game this year...
I covered my T.ferns from the first cold etc-but there has really
not been much of anything to do but wait-nothing to cold and very dry so far.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:40 pm

I hate the thought of winter coming

If only winter could be like it is now, days into the double digits, nights chilly but not brutal.
No snow, grass is still growing, beautiful sunny days now that the fog is gone.

But you're likely looking forward to seeing all your tented lights on at night.

Good that you had a reliable warning of the early cold so you could protect the T ferns.
Tough doing that at 3 a.m.

You've warmed up again, good.

Barb

Beny · Post by **Beny** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:37 pm

Hy Barb,
I used the heat tape last year with the mummywrap technique and i had no problems. It never go to hot to burn anything. Im gonna start to protect all the palms in 2 weeks, mid-november. The last 2 nights, the temp. was near -7c here (or 18-20F). But the days go up near +7c (45F). And all the palms still unprotected, including Young Trachy, Chamaerops and Butia. And i saw no problems on them. The problems start to come Under the -12c for some palms like Butia and Chamaerops humilis.
Will post more videos with my mummywrap method. I ll try 3 different ways to do that....will see

Ben

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:48 pm

Yes, Beny, I remember your heat tape method that worked so well for you in the mummy wrap.
And Erik has confirmed that it never gets really warm.

But in my mind, I kept wondering why that tape would have to be 210 watts.
I thought of what the electrician said, for example, about our 15 hp pump in our irrigation pond, and that "start up is probably more than 100 amps, even though it operates at about 60 amps or so".
So it's the start-up that worried me on the heat tape too.

But the palm hut goes up this Sunday...whew...

I'm still blown away you have a Butia unprotected at -7C...

You'll warm up again soon Beny!

Barb

Beny · Post by **Beny** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:59 pm

Yes,
But the temperature will go up tomorrow and for the next days, up to 16c friday

...but cooling down to the normal on monday

...Normally we got these lower temp. not before mid-november.
For reference, i use a 24 foots heatcable for a 8 foots tall palm tree. And its enough with the mummywrap, so in your hut, your 30 foots cable will more than enough

...
Ben

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:12 pm

16C for you, wow, very nice.

I'll put the ceramic heater back into the palm hut to eliminate any doubt.
That heater has worked great for a couple of years now.

Enjoy your warm-up Beny.

Barb

Okanagan desert-palms · Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:40 pm

No tape! Big boy will survive without it.

John

hasty22 · Post by **hasty22** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:25 pm

I only had the one issue with heat tape.It was a different brand than the others I use but, I think I might have crossed the wires back over each other. not sure but results were devestating. It crispy fried a 4 foot trachy. I still use 2 heat tapes one on palm tree the other on big musa basjoo, I have used the same heat tapes on these since they were young plants.
Keith

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:04 pm

Yeah, Keith, I remember your photos.
Do you remember how many watts it was?
Mine specifically said not to cross over itself and even showed a diagram how to cross over to the other side of a waterline without overlapping the cord.

Glad it's working better for you now.

Barb

marceli · Post by **marceli** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:46 am

Barb, am I getting this right? You wanna protect Trachy with forecasted -5C? Chill out and wait for real cold

Beny · Post by **Beny** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:56 am

Keith,
If you protect your palms with a 2 inches styrofoam box, you need only a 12 foots cable (48 watts) on the ground for the roots. And a 18 foots cable (72 watts) for the trunck is enough. Me and Mike here in Montréal (im 30 km north of him) use only 2 x 23 watts cfl for heating the box and a 12 foots cable on the ground and its perfect even at -28c outside. The temp. never went down Under the -1c.
So , if you want to replace the CFL by a heat cable, use almost the same watts.

For the mummy wrap, last year i tried with a 40 foots (200 watts) cable and it was to strong. This year ill try a 24 foots (168 watts) cable around the trunck and foliage and a 12 foots on the ground. These cables has their own thermostat. So no more thermocube needed. Ill make 2 opening in the wrapping near the top of the trunck and one at the top of the mummywarp for ventilation.
Cause the problem i had last winter was the overheat Inside the mummywarp du to the sun effect. Till end of january, my Trachy warpped was perfect, no dammage at all.
But in february the sun getting higher and stronger, and that overheated the protection ( even if the thermostats stopped the cable) . It was 0c outside and +22c Inside, only du to the sun.
So, with doing some opening, i hope it will evacuate the overheat. But the cable may run often during the cold days

...
Now, i mummywrapped one of my Trachy since last week. And with the same technique as above, i monitorized a +10c difference between the outside temp. and the Inside of mummywrap ( with a unplugged cable). So only with the sun, we got a 10c gain.

Ben

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:04 pm

marceli,

am I getting this right?

I know, I know...but he's the first palm.

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:33 am

I know a cure for babying one palm...plant a bunch more

Seriously,I do treat my Princeps like that!
Just to beautiful to take a chance....that is why
god made Trachycarpus Fortunei!

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:42 am

plant a bunch more

Yeah, well, so far I've resisted the urge to DIG UP the Brahea armata and Chamaerops humilis cerifera

I've got a few Princeps seedlings from last winter.
Waiting another year or two before I plant those.
And the Waggie babies.

Barb

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 3:59 am

"Brahea armata and Chamaerops humilis cerifera"

Wow, you have these planted in the ground and over winter? Been thinking about doing the same next spring with a Brahea.

Starting to take steps to put all mine to sleep for the winter and will be close to max use of out door power usage. Have already been "warned" by the wife about the power bill. she just doesn't get it.............

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 5:46 am

Wow, you have these planted in the ground and over winter?

This is their first winter in the ground

I had a "hotter than hell" area that needed something; ought to do well if winter doesn't kill 'em.

she just doesn't get it..

Barb

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:49 am

Maybe I missed them; if so, can you post photos of the Brahea and Chamearops in the ground? And details of you will protect them?

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:43 am

They're just little guys.

C-9's, 6 ml vapor barrier plastic in a teepee shape, framed by broom handles

.
old solar pool blanket thrown over that, providing a 6-inch air space between plastic layers.

Brahea armata
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/southslope/10629848193/" title="002 by edible_plum, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5539/1062 ... 5aaa_c.jpg" width="600" height="800" alt="002"></a>

Chamaerops humilis var cerifera

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/southslope/10629562185/" title="001 by edible_plum, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3809/1062 ... 34fc_c.jpg" width="600" height="800" alt="001"></a>

Barb

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 5:15 pm

Thanks! Two of my favorite palms.
Mine are in pots and will come in again.
Your protection looks good to me. I'm getting they will do fine, and grow well next summer.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 5:19 pm

If the Brahea makes it, I'll be jumping up and down with excitement next spring.

Yours must be getting big...how about some updated photos as they go indoors?

Barb