Bananas and Queen palm in Winter greenhouse protection

tropicman · Post by **tropicman** » Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:15 pm

Its has been about 40 days without any rain or snow,and with todays temperature about 70* today,I thought,I'd better do some watering.
First I wanted to check the soil temperature.
We have had single digit temperatures twice so far this fall and winter,but the ground hasn't froze over yet.

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/gG ... site"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/_of77_9IEPRg/TR1uO ... C-013F.JPG" height="480" width="640" /></a>
Also 48* inside greenhouse enclosure.

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/hg ... site"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_of77_9IEPRg/TR1uP ... C-018F.JPG" height="480" width="640" /></a>
As you can see I have thermostat heat tape on the trunk of queen palm and trunk of the basjoos,also Xmas mini lights up on the foliage,and oil filled radiator heater.It has never been below 32* in there,even when the temp dropped to single digits outside,I think square straw bales 5ft high have been helping keep it nice and toasty inside.

My robusta is looking good only with Xmas mini lights on the fan leaves and a rope Xmas light around her trunk.
[/img]<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/jR ... site"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_of77_9IEPRg/TR1uS ... C-026F.JPG" height="480" width="640" /></a>
Here are a few more bananas,Yuzu lemon tree and palms with no heat protection,and checked them and they are still looking good as well,so if it stays on the mild side,things should sail through this winter looking good.

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:05 am

It sure was a nice day yesterday!
Felt like spring. Still 60 oF when I woke up--along with an end-of-the-year tornado warning.
Get cold now, but not to single digits down here.
My soil temps are like yours, perhaps a little warmer. I like going into January with warm soil.

Unlike last year....

The queen palm/Musa basjoo protection looks great. I love the straw house. While I use pipe heating cable on palms, I never have on Musa. If it works for you, I'll do that next year.

I was surprised by the relatively modest heat for the W. robusta. Was that sufficient last winter?

Thanks for the updates, and keep them coming! --Erik

Paul Ont · Post by **Paul Ont** » Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:43 am

If your Queen palm survives, you'll be the hero of the board!

Thanks for the updates.

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:15 am

That's for sure!
I hope Mike (sidpook) sees this thread.

ScottyON · Post by **ScottyON** » Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:11 am

Wow, over wintering a Queen! I hope it makes it!

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:37 am

I have mixed feelings, because I know that if he does, I'll have to try in 2011.

tropicman · Post by **tropicman** » Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:58 pm

Robusta has made it 3 winters in the ground,with the rope Xmas light around the trunk,last year no Xmas lights on the leaves and lost them all but one,but this I put the Xmas minis back on the fan leaves,so far they look great,this is pretty much 7ft tall.
I had to Raja Puri's musa in fruit,wrapped with mini lights and bales of straw,with plastic coverings,put the cold froze the nanas,and also the trunks has turned to mush,but the pups still look good as far as I can tell,so I might get lucky and overwinter a raja puri in the ground,they are suppose to be root hardy to zone 8.
Its 24* outside now,and queen palm hut is 48* inside,get a little sunshine and it will climb into the high 50's.
Don't know what I'll do next year if it grows another 4ft,as it did this year.I guess I can stack straws bales 8ft high,it seem the straw has really helped keeping the hut above freezing,enough so I have 2 neighbor cats spending the nights in there keeping the field mice population down!!!LOL

Okanagan desert-palms · Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:06 pm

Wow I never thought I would see a Queen palm planted zone 6b on Palms North. I`m hoping it makes it through the rest of the winter.

John

tropicman · Post by **tropicman** » Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:18 pm

Thanks everyone
Well its 14* outside now,and it suppose to dip to 9*,and it is 36*inside there now,so if the the heat tape comes on at 40* the trunk should be warm,the wind is up and blowing,so I'm guessing there is a pretty cold wind chill out there now.
59* in my big greenhouse now,so I might need to go out here and kick it up a notch if it gets any colder.

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:23 pm

If it is coming from the NW and has hit you, it will be here soon.
As of now, it is 28 oF and windy (from the NW). Pipe heating tape has come on; thermocube on the Chamearops has turned on the C9 lights. Palm hut not on yet--advantage of thermal mass.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Jan 01, 2011 8:18 am

Wow, Don, do things ever look good!

A 7 foot Robusta is a joy to behold.
And ditto to comments about overwintering a Queen

The easiest daily chore is to check that plastic hasn't lifted anywhere from the wind.

Bales are THE trick (as well as heat of course.)

I can't find the Flickr link I had (darn) to your recent pics of GH addition.
But I went absolutely GA GA when I saw the volume/size of plants you are growing.

Can you post the link please?

Barb

tropicman · Post by **tropicman** » Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:02 am

Hi Barb,
Yes the wind here has been really terrible,several days of constant 45mph,and it makes my palm hut really sway back and fourth,I used regular heavy duty plastic 6 mil,instead of greenhouse plastic,and the wind has ripped in a couple places,so I had to throw a tarp over it,to make it to spring.some sun still gets inside from the sides,which keeps thing growing.
I'm using Goggle Picasso now for my photos now,so here is a link to it.And yes the straw bales have done the job!

http://picasaweb.google.com/home

tropicman · Post by **tropicman** » Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:04 am

Erik,
My weather channel was showing you might have gotten some freezing rain yesterday is that true?

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:06 am

Hi Don,
Yup, keep an eye for wind-torn plastic, good idea using 6 mil.

Nope, that link is just to the photo-host's home page, not yours.
Try again please.

Barb

tropicman · Post by **tropicman** » Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:15 am

http://picasaweb.google.com/dbrya1

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:32 am

Ah, lovely!
Thought there were additional inside GH pics on Flickr...when you asked about the black plastic pots.
Will have another look.

Gorgeous stuff, Don, simply amazed at how many seedlings you've got going too

Barb

tropicman · Post by **tropicman** » Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:36 am

Thanks Barb
Yes right now I have lots of jelly palm and Brahma armata seedlings going,I definitely want some of these growing in my landscape,

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:38 am

OK, I found the link I was referring to:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/11524743@N07/

How?
I just followed the drool on my computer's History

The above link knocks my socks off, Don.

Barb

tropicman · Post by **tropicman** » Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:50 am

Thanks
I haven't been to my flicker photos in a while and enjoyed seeing them again.

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Sat Jan 01, 2011 12:02 pm

The picassa link worked for me. Broadly similar to my protection down here, but on a bigger scale.

About Brahea, I have four in pots. Will you try them in the ground? How will you protect them?

tropicman · Post by **tropicman** » Sat Jan 01, 2011 2:25 pm

Yes I have a couple about 4 yrs now from seed,I plan on putting in the ground next year.
It says they are as hardy as a washy robusta,I will use Xmas lights on them as same as my robusta 4 yrs in the ground now.
I have a couple dozen seedlings in case my 2 gallon size don't make.

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Sat Jan 01, 2011 3:09 pm

Those are about the size of mine. I planted one in April but dug it up in September when I realized the ground it was in didn't drain well (although Chamaerops has been happy there for years). --Erik

tropicman · Post by **tropicman** » Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:42 pm

Yep,I'll need to amend my soil for better drainage as well,these types of palm do not like wet feet for very long!

oppalm · Post by **oppalm** » Sun Jan 02, 2011 7:25 pm

great pics Don. I'd like to hang out a your place for just one day and see all the plants. you have a great collection of plants. Can't imagine how much work you do to get ready for winter. Keep up your efforts.

tropicman · Post by **tropicman** » Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:24 pm

Thanks Kent your welcome anytime.
Yep it takes more and more to prepare for winter every year,almost 2 weeks this time,and it takes everything out of me too!
Health ain't what it use to be!!!!
It just as much work trying to acclimate all these plants in the spring as well,not enough places to keep them in the shade for couple weeks at a time,everything is done in stages,yep lots of work,these plants are getting so big,I'd like to plant them in the ground,and figure a way to protect them,and not have to worry about them all winter long.I'm hoping the heat tapes work well enough to try again next year,so far it seem to be working fine,but we really haven't had to real cold spell of a week or more below freezing this year to call it a success yet!

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:38 am

Don,
I was happy with my heat tape trial last year and so am using a lot of it this year. We'll have to share experiences at winter's end. I am using cables from different manufacturers, too.
--Erik

tropicman · Post by **tropicman** » Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:06 am

I managed to buy 2 new ones 30ft off Craiglist,so far just using the one,seems a big coldfront will be coming upon us last half of the month,so looks like they will get the chance to prove themselves.
Yes I read about the good results you had from last year,I guess what I worry about the most is the thermostat working properly,this is my biggest concern,I have used heat tapes in years past on pipes,that you had to plug and unplug with out the thermostat,and had no problems.

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:19 am

I live in rural OK so pipe heating cable (+ thermocubes) are on the shelves of local stores. Drive to the nearest TSC (Tractor Supply Company) or similar store and you will find shelves full of winter protection stuff we can use for our plants. After all, goats are from the land of date palms, and chickens from the tropics of SE Asia.

I have used pipe heating tape on PVC pipes in the (unheated) barn for years and never had a problem with the thermostat not working.

They are designed to be wrapped with insulation, so you might consider a trunk (pseudostem?) wrap next time over top of them. I use at least burlap. (Thanks, Jim!)

My personal favorite brand is MD, as it is made in OKC and is designed to be wrapped spirally around the trunk (I mean pipe) vs. the others which are supposed to be placed linearly. In either event, they are designed to be under insulation.

tropicman · Post by **tropicman** » Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:26 am

I will look for The MD brand,as mine were to be placed up one side and not wrapped around the pipe,I think the spirally would be best also!

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:32 am

Here is a snapshot of the MD brand pipe heating tapes.

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/GN ... site"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/_r-MvN4jW1sE/TOmAV ... AG0345.jpg" height="383" width="640" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/terdalfarm/ ... ">November 2010</a></td></tr></table>

tropicman · Post by **tropicman** » Mon Jan 03, 2011 12:03 pm

When I bought mine from Craigslist,both came in a freezer bag,one had a black and this one has a red cable like yours it might be that brand,it just say wrap on ,on the tag.

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Q9 ... site"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_of77_9IEPRg/TSIrE ... C-052F.JPG" height="480" width="640" /></a>

tropicman · Post by **tropicman** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:06 pm

With temps at or above 58* today I went inside my palm hut and discovered one of my basjoos about 10ft tall fallen over.
Its base had must have froze,just above ground level,right where my tape heat ended,rest of trunk is real firm,so I checked the other standing basjoo, same there it to is soft,but it is still standing straight,I cut a couple leaves off it to take some of the weight off the trunk,I feel it too will fall in time.
Good news is my queen palm is still in excellent condition and nice and green.
Another bad news is the straw bales are starting to rot,hopefully they will last another 2 months.
Another cold front with snow is to be here Monday,with temps down in the single digits again.
And tomorrow were flirting with temps close to 65*!
Come on Spring!

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/68 ... site"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/_of77_9IEPRg/TUHOB ... C-086F.JPG" height="480" width="640" /></a>

Queen Palm looking great

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:24 pm

Damn!
So what's the trick? Placing the heat tape around the plastic pot near the base?

That Queen looks perfect!

Great idea using all those bales, but they do get slippery quickly and fall over from the warmth within, not to mention wind.
We used to tie our piled bales into one mass, then prop 2x4s on an angle held with heavy rocks, otherwise the whole outside row fell over every year before spring.

Hope the naners recover.
Barb

tropicman · Post by **tropicman** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:43 pm

Thanks,I'm pretty sure they will,because still firm from rotted mushy spot to the ground,which is a couple inches or more,so from the ground up 2 or 3 inches,still firm mushy spot was about 4 inches to the heat tape,and this basjoo was closer to the palm than the one that is still standing,go figure!These straw bales go up to about 5ft tall or more.
There is 2 cats that live inside,keeping the mice population down,but at the same time wear and tear n the straw bales,they even rooted a couple spots in a couple bales.

BILL MA · Post by **BILL MA** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:08 pm

Sorry to hear about your basjoos, that really is a shame after all of your hard work.

I think what your doing with the queen is really cool by the way, come on spring is right.

Bill

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:16 pm

Don,
thanks for the update!
That queen project is awesome. I just might have to try that in 2011.
I also like the pipe heat cable on the Musa. If it works for you, I'll try next winter.
My Musa and Musella are mulched after quickly dying to the ground months ago. The exception are the Musa basjoo stems in the "palm hut." They look bad and I thought them dead, but I peeked in today and there is still some green so maybe I'll keep at least some of the stems.
As for the straw, yes, it goes bad. Most years I get lazy and leave it be. Today I pulled the hay I was using as a deep mulch off my palms so that trunks could dry. I'll replace it with fresh hasy Sunday.
As for weather, yes, isn't it great to live where we do?

I'm 60 oF now and will get to 70 oF tomorrow.
As with you, a bit of snow next week, but forecast lows here are only about 14 oF or so which shouldn't be a problem. Palms should all be as hardened off as they are going to be, right?
--Erik

tropicman · Post by **tropicman** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:41 pm

Thanks bill,at least 2 months or more before spring,I think were half way there!

Erik,from the mushy spot up,the trunk on the basjoo was just as firm as can be,,must have been a draft in there,don't know where!
I'll know next time to bring the cable all the way down and maybe even on the ground.
Yep I don't think they could be any more harden off by know,it's suppose to drop down to 8* for the lowest next week,we've been there several times already,so I hope the last standing 2 basjoos will hold on for a little longer.If my queen makes,know telling what I might try next year!
Good luck in your palm hut,spring is in the air,we calling for 68* tomorrow,made 61* today!

PalmsNorth.com

Bananas and Queen palm in Winter greenhouse protection

Bananas and Queen palm in Winter greenhouse protection

Washy robusta

Picassa

Freezing rain

Try again

update