Early August update

[TerdalFarm]

Everything has been growing well and I have been waiting until plants look their best before posting photos.
However, we are now getting serious hot. Lows of about 80oF and highs of about 105oF. I water a lot but some plants don't like that heat no matter how much water they get. Second, the goats keep getting in. I turned off the electric tape (the white stuff in the photos that follow) as plant growth has grounded it anyway. I am learning goat dietary preferences. If anyone else gardens with goats (i.e., is as foolish as me), let me know and I'll share tips. In brief, they do not seem to like palms, so good news there.

These photos are broad overlooks. Let me know if you want details on any particular plants.

Overview from the pasture:

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Nd ... site"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/_r-MvN4jW1sE/TFg0L ... AG0115.jpg" /></a>


View I see out of the bedroom window. New needle palm in the foreground; new cabbage palm in the background.

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/nT ... site"><img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/_r-MvN4jW1sE/TFgyI ... AG0111.jpg" /></a>


Detail of Sabal bed with gazebo in background:

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/kZ ... site"><img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/_r-MvN4jW1sE/TFgyv ... AG0113.jpg" /></a>



Detail of palmate palm bed (large Butia + three Chameadorea radicalis) with Musa basjoo:

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/oO ... site"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/_r-MvN4jW1sE/TFgyb ... AG0112.jpg" /></a>


Please share suggestions on this project and photo requests.
--Erik

[ScottyON]

YAAAYYY we finnaly get to see your pics!! Very nice.. Looks really dry in the background, must be really, really hot where you live! That sable is amazing!! Just how tall is it?? The pindo is also very nice!!! Have you thought about making a video of the yard?? I find it gives you a great perspective on things!! Thanks for the update..

[TerdalFarm]

Scotty,
thanks for looking.
Yes, very dry. We don't have irrigation for the pasture. However, much of the dying vegetation there is thanks to 2,4 D we are spraying to kill broadleaf vegetation so that grass can grow. Personally I hate grass but horses love it so I put up with it.
As for weather, it is horrid. Tulsa set a record high low of 85oF this morning; it is 103oF right now. Soil temps are nearing 90oF. I know some of you envy my zone 7 winters but none of you would want to be here this time of the year.
I'll try to figure out how to take video with my new cell phone (source of these photos). Forgive me in advance. As for right now, despite the heat I have to run outside to chase goats out again. --Erik

[sidpook]

These are great . Thanks for sharing. Looks like they have been through some hot days...Ugh!! It has moderated here finally, 80s and low 90s only finally.

[sidpook]

Scotty,
thanks for looking.
Yes, very dry. We don't have irrigation for the pasture. However, much of the dying vegetation there is thanks to 2,4 D we are spraying to kill broadleaf vegetation so that grass can grow. Personally I hate grass but horses love it so I put up with it.
As for weather, it is horrid. Tulsa set a record high low of 85oF this morning; it is 103oF right now. Soil temps are nearing 90oF. I know some of you envy my zone 7 winters but none of you would want to be here this time of the year.
I'll try to figure out how to take video with my new cell phone (source of these photos). Forgive me in advance. As for right now, despite the heat I have to run outside to chase goats out again. --Erik

Love a grilled goat!

[TerdalFarm]

Mike,
I've already made arrangements with a local butcher. I can mail you frozen cabrito if you wish! They'll taste like Hibiscus, Forsythia, Rosa, Camellia, Hamellia, Ipomea, Aucuba and basically be the most expensively fed chevon around. --Erik

[sidpook]

Sounds Deeeeeelish!

[Okanagan desert-palms]

Erik nice to see the Sabal still doing well after the transplant. I wish I could get one that size for the price your wife paid. Watch it take off next year after it gets it`s roots under it second year.I hope my 5 gal planted S. louisiana look as well as your Sabal in 5 years.


John

[Paul Ont]

Looking good!

[BILL MA]

Erik,
You have a big collection going there! I hear you on the heat of the summer there it looks really HOT! Every time I see your weather sticker your temps are way up there in the uncomfortable zone. Good thing you have a pool right, but I bet that's in the 90's too Do you have to add water often?

I have one question for you. Is the trachy you had in the ground last winter the one to the bottom right of picture number three? if so it did a nice job recovering How are your Birmingham's doing from John in Tulsa?

I hope there is some relief from the 100's for you soon.

Looking good, keep up the good work!

Bill

[TerdalFarm]

Bill,
the overwintered Trachy is indeed in photo #3, but it is between the gazebo and the post with Campsis. It started a good recovery in Spring and then stopped. I am counting on it taking off again in September.
The Trachy you referred to was a cheap one from a local HD. It has been doing well and is part of a Trachy bed.
The Sabal "Birmingham" are actually from Mike Papay in NC. I'll get a photo up those seedlings up. In brief, 24 of 32 seeds have done great. I also have 3 seedlings from the Ft. Worth Sabal minor doing well also.
John,
I am also relieved that the Sabal are doing well. The two small S. mexicana were purchased in Dallas last October and spent the winter indoors. They are on their second leaf. A horse got in and thought they were grass (hurt my feelings!) but gave up after one bite. The large cabbage palm has one new leaf and a 2nd spear coming fast. New petioles are shorter than the old. Current overall height is about 7'/2m, with no trunk. Looks great to me. Still no idea how to protect for winter (whatever that is!) but I'll be asking for ideas eventually.
Scotty,
the pindo is my real pride. I've had my tiny avatar pindo in the ground for three years but each summer it merely replaces what it lost over the winter. I protected the heck out of the new large one (thanks!) and it has grown much faster this year than I expected. Probably doubled in overall size.
Paul,
thanks for the comments. Time for photos from you.
--Erik
P.S. it is very hot. Lows of about 85oF, highs about 105oF. Windy. Soil about 90oF. Think about that if you ever consider moving south....

[BILL MA]

I see it now! Like you said once you cool off some it will get going again, you'll get good growth until Dec. easy.

Couple more questions. Is that sabal by the lantern the mexicana? if yes how many fronds has that put out? Also do you dig up your mexican
patunias or just chuck them? Just curious because I have a bunch of them.

Bill

[TerdalFarm]

Wow, you've looked closely.
I didn't put up a photo of the Trachy bed specifically as it doesn't look all that great. I can photograph it though.
The Sabal mexicana by the lantern is one of the two cheap ones ($15 at end of season sale in Dallas; labelled as S. texicanum which I think is funny). It is putting out its 2nd leaf now which looks yellowish. Might be time to fertilize again? Any advice?

Mexican petunia: great plant. I hope you promote them and sell a bunch.
Wife bought them as annuals three years ago. All our friends in Belize grow them as ornamentals. She found them at a local nursery up here and brought three home. With no protection at all they came back as perennials and spread.
This winter was pretty cold for us and so only one clump is doing well (photo #2). It was right next to a Musella lasiocarpa which was killed, so I rate it as at least as winter hardy. Two other clumps by the gazebo have struggled. Minimal growth and no flowers. I think they are getting too much shade from the new cabbage palm.
Anyways, promote Mexican petunia as an annual that might be able to overwinter. Up there, try a heavy mulch and I'll bet it comes through in a sunny location. I do also dig up a bit each year to bring in so I can get early flowering in late spring when it is back in the ground.
--Erik

[hardyjim]

Keep it all watered man.
If plants don't stress to bad in the day/heat they can really take advantage of
those high nightime lows.

You may want to consider putting a ring of edging,mulch or mounding the soil
around your big leaved tropicals-probably not what you want to be doing in the heat!

I really shouldn't talk,I haven't even been looking at mine lately because of the warm temps.

Anyway,just think the EE's and Bananas(at least)would benefit from having standing water or
at least if you could direct it to the roots with no run off-the EE's would benefit from standing water in your heat.

Good luck Erik,doesn't look like it's cooling off anytime soon-next week MAY be the hottest of the summer.
We get a "break"until Sunday-maybe-

Looking good!

[TerdalFarm]

Thanks for the suggestions, Jim. I get great advice here.
Mulching: I did not do nearly enough this year. I bought one "scoop" (filled pick-up bed) but it was not nearly enough. I need at least two more.
Water: I admit the EE have not gotten their fair share as I focus on palms. I guess I take EE for granted and it shows. Bananas have been getting a lot of water but man, it is so hot. The Mexican petunias Bill noticed are not being watered and yet still look fabulous. I suggest you try them.
Goats: First thing I saw out my bedroom window at dawn today was a goat. They are even starting to nibble palms (needle, Phoenix r.). W is helping as she knows how mad I am. She took two goats to a friend's house yesterday to help them control weeds, and this morning she installed a more powerful electric fence charger for me. It cost more than any palm tree we have. I told her I hope to smell singed fur.
Weather: the one nice thing about high humidity is the brief rainshowers that result. We just had one, and it brought temps down to 85oF fast. Not enough water to make a difference but it sure feels good. I'm about to go outside and enjoy the garden while I can. --Erik

[hardyjim]

Yea,burning hair and dinners ready!

[BILL MA]

Singe Away! There will be no eating of palms tolerated

Thanks for the info on the petunias, that would be really cool if they would come back. The roots on them are crazy so it wouldn't surprise me in the least. I was going to leave them out anyways but now I feel better about it.

As for your yellowing palm put one cup of epsom salt around it next time you water that should help some. You could juice it to like you said.

Bill

[TerdalFarm]

No goats at all in the garden today. Wonder why.
The yellow-ish new leaf on that Sabal has turned green on its own. I've seen that happen before. I gave a little palm fertilizer to each palm anyways as it occurred to me that I am watering so much lately I might be washing away water-soluble nutrients. I'll fertilize the bananas tomorrow, for the same reason.
Mexican petunias are great plants; just give them as much sun and heat as possible. --Erik

[lucky1]

Hi Erik,
Thanks for that great pic update.

hope to smell singed fur.

Quite the challenge, 'coz goats will eat the bumper off a Ford.
Still better than sheep though

Agree that mulch should be applied, especially around your valuable specimens.
Eight inches mulch generally packs down with watering to about 3 inches with time but saves heat stress.

Your plants are getting enough heat, I'd question if enough water is applied.
Mulch will help that (apply mulch AFTER a huge watering to each plant).
Or maybe you'll get a 3 inch rain to do it for you...we can't hope for that, nary a drop here, even when it does rain.

Nice to see your updated views and how everything has responded to heat.

Barb

[TerdalFarm]

Thanks for the comments, Barb. I'll add Trachy photos soon as I know they are your favorites. Despite the heat, I think they are doing just fine.
The two goats we loaned out were brought back today. They are happy to be home after doing their jobs. Goats are actually more selective browsers than most people think. They ate the weeds they wanted and then cried with hunger despite abundant remaining weeds around them.
Today, the goats got into the front yard and went to lunch on the wife's orchard and raspberries. I chased them out but W will still be mad when she gets home from work. No, they have not gotten back into the palm garden since she put that new fence charger in. It was designed for 10 miles of cattle fence!
As for mulch, I know I need more but it is so hot I don't feel like doing that much work. I'll get it done before winter but it really needed to have been done before now, and I knew that.
I brought in my two potted Chameadorea this afternoon. I suspect I'm the only one here who has had to bring in potted palms for summer protection!
--Erik

[lucky1]

Erik, it'll be nice to see that long-suffering Trachy up close.
It must've been happy with the heavy rain you had last month.

Ten miles of cattle fence is quite the "charger" to keep the goats out. Bssssszzzzzzttttt!

cried with hunger despite abundant remaining weeds

You've spoiled them with your flowering perennials!

There's a downside to putting mulch down close to Fall/Winter.
Mulch applied late tends to keep the ground warmer than surrounding areas (when it should be cooling with colder air temps), and plants don't have a "trigger" to go into dormancy. Especially bad for roses, probably palms too.

Very few of my exotics can be out in our hot desert sun/winds, thank goodness for a large patio overhang.
Is there any more room on the east side of your house for potted palms in your hot hot weather?
They'll do better there with only morning sun.
Watering lasts longer too.

Hope you get a break soon from the heat, and a good rain.
We had a two-day drop in temps of about 10 degrees...wonderful.
No rain though, just a few spits with lightning and thunder.
Barb

[TerdalFarm]

Thanks for the comments.
The potted Chamaeadorea (ernesti-augustis and geonoformis) are inside for the week. If the heat breaks, I may try them on the east side of the house, where the large covered porch is. That is W's turf and she doesn't want palms there. The only tropical is the huge potted Ficus benjamini which loves the combination of morning sun/afternoon shade. I think Chamaeadorea would like it too so I'll find some place to tuck them.

I think the Trachycarpus are dealing with the heat rahter well. Here is the Trachy bed this morning:

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/LV ... site"><img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/_r-MvN4jW1sE/TGACr ... AG0125.jpg" /></a>


The new cabbage palm is in the upper left corner. From left to right you can see two T. fortunei planted this year (one is in shade and hard to see), a Tropicanna that came this this past winter brilliantly despite no protection, the larger Trachy that overwintered in the shade of the Canna (photo of it below), my avatar Butia (lower middle, almost hidden by Basil I plant as filler + for pesto) which is doing very well despite no electric heat again this past winter (defoliated as always, but has recovered very well), and the new Waggy I bought and planted in late June. Not a good time, and the fronds show sun damage. My old but small Waggy is in the ground this year but is too small to show up behind the Canna. It is doing well. In the background is the new Euonymous, which is doing well. The sticks are the dwarf peaches I grow as mango look-a-likes. Defoliated by goats.

Ditto with the Camellia, which also looks like a stick against the gazebo.

Here is a detail of the Trachy I overwintered without electric heat or a green-house structure last winter:

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/nz ... site"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/_r-MvN4jW1sE/TGAM1 ... AG0128.jpg" /></a>

At the bottom you can see a damaged leaf that made it through the winter. The rest grew in the spring; yes, it was nearly defoliated. Growth stopped in Summer despite lots of water + palm fertilizer. Hope for more growth in Autumn.

Anyway, it is already 90oF so I need to go back outside while I still can. I've been enjoying the garden since 6 am, when it was a pleasant 80oF.

--Erik

[DesertZone]

Very nice! Do you use your pool much?

[TerdalFarm]

The son and I are about to run out of the house and jump in, but it is too hot to be pleasant to hang out in in the afternoon.
The wife likes the warm water and so uses it more than I do this time of year. --Erik

[lucky1]

Erik
thanks for the great closeup of that bed.
Your palms look better than yesterday's distance shot conveyed.

The overwintered Trachy looks fabulous (remembering what it went through)
I think it's done really well, but agree it could use some epsom salts and a small under-tree sprinkler on it for a few hours after the sun has set.
Looks like you've got 4 new fronds, so it's thriving despite your brutal heat.
Mine pushed a frond right until October, so yours will likely keep going too but I wouldn't fertilize them again now that it's the end of first week in August, as it likely wouldn't harden off for winter. But others here might disagree.

And your avatar Butia looks fabulous!!!!

The new Waggie is probably just showing some heat stress; it'll settle in and show darker color next year with enough water and fertilizer in spring.
Great looking palms, Erik. A good idea to have basil, etc. and other smaller plants/shrubs cool the soil with their shade around the palms.
Nice color on that Euonymous and Canna, great contrast.

Nice sticks too

Hey Erik, maybe trade W (for something wonderful!) and take over that eastern deck (sorry W!!!!).
Young potted palms would love it there.

Barb

[TerdalFarm]

Great comments as always.
Fertilizer: I gave it (and all palms) some epsom salts over the weekend when it was slightly cooler + some palm fertilizer. I'd like input on whether some potassium might be a good idea in the fall to keep root development up as long as possible.
Mulch: I was thinking Fall mulch would keep soils temps up and so promote fall root growth. Thoughts?
Shade: yes, the basil help. I started them from seed so the cost was neglibible. W had the great idea to plant grocery store sweet potato and it has great, and again cheap for the coverage. Too bad the goats liked it and so most is gone now. They didn't care for the Mexican petunias Bill and I were conversing about last week so we'll get a bunch of those next spring. Also cheap around here. We've been talking about EE lately on this forum. They don't cost too much locally so I'll use more of them for shade next year.
Speaking of shade planting, the two Waggies I planted this year were supposed to be shaded by a huge Musa basjoo that has been the center piece of that bed for years. This year it is only 1' tall. I water and fertilize it but it refuses to grow. Other M. basjoo are doing OK so I don't know what its problem is. The consequence is that the Trachy bed in general, and the two new waggies in particular, are getting much more sun than I planned for.
As for the front porch, I nixed that idea when I got home this evening. The goats got into the front yard. They knocked over the Ficus but didn't eat much. They devastated the orchard and berry bed W has spent five years on. She got home after dark and so hasn't seen it yet (I did tell her). I wonder if they are punishing her for putting in that new fence charger around my palm garden?
So, no, my Chamaeadorea will NOT be going on the porch, at least until the goats go to the butcher next week.
--Erik

[lucky1]

I think Jim is the potassium-honcho, but I recall potassium provides improved cold tolerance/winter, even for general stuff like grasses, etc.

Mulch:

Fall mulch would keep soils temps up and so promote fall root growth

Fall-applied mulch does keep soils warmer until colder air penetrates through, but an early cold snap is a risk for a plant in newly-applied mulch.
That's why mulch is better applied in Spring, before the ground gets hot.
Then by Fall, roots have had an easier Summer because mulch has kept soil more damp and cooler than without mulch, so the plant's healthier.
The above ground "trigger", naturally, is daylight hours and temps.

Our newspaper has an old time gardener with a weekly column.
he cautions against removing mulch too early from around roses. He said leave it on until mid-April, otherwise roots would begin to warm, budding the canes, and making buds susceptible to a late frost. Conversely, he cautioned against piling mulch up around rose canes too early in the Fall, which would hold the heat in the soil, with cane/bud damage likely occurring from an early frost.

Shaded soil in very hot climates: good for Trachies, probably Waggies too. But Washies need the hottest area of your property to do best, so I wouldn't shade their roots. Just have to water more often.
But as your specimens age, they'll cast more shade and their roots will be deeper.

How odd that musa refuses to grow. Nana specialists here will have good suggestions.

Those goats! If W saw the berry garden carnage this morning, you'd better look around the yard.
She might have saved the butcher the job.
Glad your Chamaeas weren't there.

Barb

[TerdalFarm]

Barb,
thanks as always. Hopefully Jim will give potassium input, but maybe I'll start a fall potassium thread for this topic.
Ditto with fall mulch/dormancy. That's tough here. A decade ago we had a hard freeze (low 20soF) in mid October; in 2009 we didn't get that until December. So, it is hard to predict. Naturally I'd like root growth through November but I can't forecast that far!
As for W's Washy (W. robusta), it stayed in a pot this year (like her sagos should have, but thats another thread). Suffered fungus with all the rain in late spring but the H2O2 trick I learned here saved it. It is growing pretty well and loving this heat out on the "beach" where it really bakes. I've come to think of Washy as a potted palm (Bill and a few others excepted).
No idea at all on that stubborn old M. basjoo. What little it has looks perfect, as do the other M. basjoo that have grown well. This thread is getting long so I may start a new one to ask for ideas. I'm baffled.
Front yard/W's terrain/goats: she is really depressed about it. She asked if she could turn the whole thing over to me and give up. I said she needed time to think about it. She has spent as much time and $ as I have in the backyard. My ideas are very different from hers in that I hate lawns ("I mow with roundup!" is my cliche answer to what kind of mower I have.) So, we'll put that off for a while.
--Erik

[lucky1]

Roundup mowing