Sub-Speicies of Trachycarpus fortunei including Trac.Tesan

garrytsen · Post by **garrytsen** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:05 pm

Trachycarpus fortune , in a scientific sense,is a general name for all its sub-species including Trachycarpus fortune cv Chusan, Trachycarpus fortunei cv Tesan and Trachycaprus fortune var Winsan,etc. When people normally talk about Trachycaprus fortune, it refers to the most common T.fortunei cv Chusan.
Trachycarpus fortune is native to China with a cultivation history of thousands of years and right now is commonly seen around the word. When it comes to the cultivation practice in China, it has several categories or sub-species according to the trunk, leave and hair, cold hardiness serving different functions and uses. The classification is as follows for reference.

1. Trachycarpus fortune cv Tesan (rarely seen in the market) :
It is a good new rare species , famous for its cold hardiness -20C.

2. Trachycaprus fortune cv Chusan ( most commonly seen in the market):
It is the most common one we see in life and exporation to abroad from China.

3. Trachycarpus fortunei var Winsan (rarely seen in cultivation) :
what makes them special is that they have full round leave with segments making a full round shape as compared to the 1/2 or 3/4 shape seen in other species.

4. Trachycarpus fortune var Misan (only seen in some wild mountains) :
The interesting thing about them is they have elegant small leaves shifting from yellow to green , only about 1/2- 3/4 of the size of T.fortunei leave.

5. Trachycarpus fortune cv Hasan ( not so commonly seen)
It is like Trachycapru fortune cv Tesan in term of the trunk
Its hair is kind of fragile and easy breaking .

For detailed information and photos, visit www.coldplant.com. or http://www.coldplant.com/plantlist.asp?ArticleID=21

oppalm · Post by **oppalm** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:58 am

as if things aren't confusing enough. Now this?

There are some great pictures in the link. You should check them out.

macario · Post by **macario** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:27 am

I have had the pleasure of doing buisness with our friends in china. They very reliable and have many products you cannot get anywhere else. I love there fortunei with the leaf segments that form a perfect circle.

Dean W. · Post by **Dean W.** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:03 am

garrytsen

You've really done your homework there. Nice pictures.

Dean

Cali-wanna-b · Post by **Cali-wanna-b** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:38 pm

Mike

If you ever deal with them again let me know. I want to try the Misan.

I bought a tesan seedling off of you on ebay last year. I must say they are different than any other trachy I have. The leaves are much coarser and they have a very rough texture on the backside of the leaf.

Barrie · Post by **Barrie** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:26 pm

The genus Trachycarpus is quite varied without going to China. Even locally, leaf form, size, number of leaflets, stiffness of leaflets, trunk thickness, hasutla, petiole length or curvature, crown density, hardniness etc., are all different. It's easy for a grower to lay claim to a palms regional or featured distinction, and sell it as "unique" or "rare". (words often overly used these days)

Cheers, Barrie.

macario · Post by **macario** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:42 am

Thats true Barrie but You wont find anyone selling alot of the items they sell. I love the 360 degree leaf segments and those you cant get anywhere. I still will be doing buisness with them as I have always done. And there prices are very competitive

Barrie · Post by **Barrie** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 4:45 pm

I can accept that to a certain degree macario,
The problem I have is growers / sellers that lay claim to what they refer to as "rare" or "exclusive", tag them with cultivar names, and expect a premium at the check out. I've grown these for 25 years and if your looking for anything wacky or unusual with Trachycarpus, I've got it, seen it, know where to get it, or have it planted.
I don't want to discredit this particular or any nursery, but make people aware that the palms they are seeking may not be as unusual or scarce as perceived, as refered to by any name.

Cheers, Barrie.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:46 am

Nice pics garrytsen. Good to hear the -20 C tolerance!

What blows me away is the size (

) of pots.
Look like 2 gallon ... soil's down a couple of inches from top, so those gorgeous palms are growing
in 6 to 8 inches of soil?

The nursery worker in the pic is encasing the pots in plastic, tying with a string, presumably for shipment.
Or are roots being "cooked" (high heat/humidity inside plastic bag) to help palm produce seeds?

The 360 degree variety is special indeed.
Barb

Barrie · Post by **Barrie** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:44 pm

Barb,
I'd wager they where field grown with the fronds pruned hard, dug out, and root pruned to fit the very small containers shown.
You can not "cook" roots or stress these palms into seed production. It's seasonal and requires both male and female trees.

Cheers, Barrie.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:10 pm

Barrie,
That makes sense...now I don't feel so bad about how many roots my CIDP lost at transplant time.

Yes I cut some fronds off (but probably not enough).

What a nursery operation ... neat pics!

Thanks for the explanation.
Barb

garrytsen · Post by **garrytsen** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:07 am

The following are some more useful links of photos for fun.

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff29 ... Winsan.jpg

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff29 ... Misan3.jpg

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff29 ... rden-1.jpg

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff29 ... dening.jpg
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff29 ... nceps3.jpg

Wes North Van · Post by **Wes North Van** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:55 am

Are you growing princeps or martianus outside at your place?

I have some small seedlings of both which I kept in a unheated greenhouse that is right up against the house last winter. I didn't loose any of them.

I am just wodering about their hardiness.

I also agree with you that fortunei has so many varietions. I have some that you would swear are takil because of the large fronds and long petitoles and others like the one I got from you that started out with fronds like waggies and now they have curved large fronds that make it look like a waggie x fortunei. Some have full heads full of fronds and others that have fronds that are sparce and spread out.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:56 pm

I think I've got to have a TESAN...
I know I've got to have a TESAN,
yes, I'd plant it outdoors.

So, Barrie or Wes (or another Canadian source...I'm tired of getting import permits, i.e. Wollemia

from Australia that never arrived)...if you guys can find me an authentic TESAN plant, let me know ASAP.
Unless there's 10 feet of snow on the COQ I can be in Vancouver in 5 hours

No Tesan seed please.
Thanks.
Barb

Wes North Van · Post by **Wes North Van** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:48 pm

I have never seen one in any nurseries.
If I do see some I will grab you one and let you know.

Okanagan desert-palms · Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:11 pm

Barb I looked into getting a couple of Larger Trachy tesan two years ago. First of all Garry will only ship a shipping container full of these palms. I didn`t bother looking into how much but you can bet a shipping container from China to Vancouver would be $$$$. I have some T. tesan seedlings from Maccario. It will be years until I see a larger one at this rate. You might want to try a T. takil as these are likely 5 degrees cold hardier and faster growing. I bought some from Canada palms in Chilliwack B.C. Personally I don`t care what name they call them by if they would be cold hardy here in our zone 6a to 7a.

John

www.canadapalms.com

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:11 pm

Much appreciated, thanks.
Barb

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:35 pm

Oops, crossed postings...

John, it would be nice to know which nursery buys a large shipping container of palms from Garry.
Likely a big Vancouver nursery?

How much of a hassle was it to bring the tesan seedling in from the US? (photo, import cert, CFIA inspection, border duty).

I thought Tesan was THE ultimate in cold hardiness...or is it Takil?

Are all your palms in the garage now...or Trachys still outside?
Barb

Okanagan desert-palms · Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:32 pm

Barb the big nurseries on the coast don`t need to bring in any Trachy "tesan" from China. Regular Trachycarpus fortunei grow just fine there. We would be hard pressed to find any larger T. takil for the same reason as the prices would much higher when someone could buy just a regular T. fortunei cheaper. Until there is a demand for the extra cold hardines such as us in the Okanagan I doubt things will change much. I can`t recall if there was any certificate or not when I got my seedlings from Maccario. I have ordered palms from the U.S. with phyto certificates. Many of these companies say that they won`t ship to Canada . I just asked politely and paid extra for the phyto usually $25.00 and a couple of them shipped my palms. All my palms are still outside exept for the smaller ones. The ones planted will get overhead protection soon, as we will be on vacation the end of Nov. I will post photos.

John

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:04 pm

Good points, John.
Of my acquaintances, there aren't any who'll line up for a -18C palm.
You're right; it would have to be an Okanagan-generated request.

To be fair, my new Trachy Nainital from Barrie, once it gets a bit older, will do fine in a mild Okanagan winter.
We just never know when a trunk-splitting killer winter is coming.

Barb

PalmsNorth.com

Sub-Speicies of Trachycarpus fortunei including Trac.Tesan

Sub-Speicies of Trachycarpus fortunei including Trac.Tesan

Plants

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more photos of Trachycarpus from China

Barrie

Barb

Trachycarpus " Tesan "

Not likely