How many kinds of European Fan palms?

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:23 am

Saw a "silver" on sale but looked green to me.

Are there Silver, Green and Blue varieties?

DesertZone · Post by **DesertZone** » Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:50 pm

sashaeffer wrote:Saw a "silver" on sale but looked green to me.

Are there Silver, Green and Blue varieties?

Yes.

miketropic · Post by **miketropic** » Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:43 pm

as far as I understand there are only 2 Humilis which is the green form and cerifera which is the silver form. I think there are ALOT of varience though. The Cerifera I have has white powder on new leaves but does look green after awhile with wide leaf segments. I have a humilis that is green with very tiny leaf segments.. I have seen ceriferas from the UK which are the best blue color and white powder. I think in the UK they say there are at last 3 forms for humilis also.Id pick it up i its on sale the one I have grows FAST and I have seen some around here make it through a few single digit winters with out a problem. Throw in the fact there is also the "volcano" version and you have a long debate

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:12 pm

I have a large Green European Fan palm, a small one(1 gallon pot) and a small Blue one from Jungle Music, just never heard of the Silver. I did notice that the fronds seemed to look different. I probably will stop back and pick it up but will take my truck this time as it would have been tough to get it in the car. PLUS, everything was 50% off including some nice tall single and multipal trunk Christmas palms and single trunk Pygmy Dates.($50 each. Christmas palms 8-10ft high)

Here are some pics, but took with my phone so not the very best.

Silver European Fan Palm for $25

Christmas Palms

miketropic · Post by **miketropic** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:13 am

I'll takpics of both mine later today and post them up.

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:43 pm

There may actually be quite a few,depending on your definition..

C.Cerifera
C.Humilis
C.Volcano
C.Arborescens
C.Piangente
C.Microcarpa
C.Macrocarpa
C.Naples

These are the ones I recall off the top of my head...
there is another said blue form but the name escapes me....

found it Chamaerops Humilis var. Argentea

Heres a thread with some habitat pics...

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php ... a-almeria/

<a href="http://www.wunderground.com/US/IA/Fairf ... big2"><img src="http://weathersticker.wunderground.com/ ... rfield.gif" alt="Click for Fairfield, Iowa Forecast" border="0" height="60" width="468" /></a>

miketropic · Post by **miketropic** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:53 pm

here are my to..the cerifera with the wie leaflets and white undersides..and the green form with narrow leaflets. you can see to the left in the second pic the leaflets of the cerifera sticking out and how different they are

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:31 am

Great link and pics! Thanks.

KrisK · Post by **KrisK** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:38 pm

There's something like 40-50 varieties that have been named.
Here's mine:

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/26394087@N02/9313950309/" title="photo by ricerocket962001, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7379/9313 ... 593bcb.jpg" width="373" height="500" alt="photo"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/26394087@N02/9316736426/" title="photo by ricerocket962001, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2871/9316 ... 60ace8.jpg" width="373" height="500" alt="photo"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/26394087@N02/9316735844/" title="photo by ricerocket962001, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7296/9316 ... 2583fa.jpg" width="373" height="500" alt="photo"></a>

The top two are regular green form, one has a stubbier trunk and bushier crown, the other is skinny trunked, sparse crown, and 360* leaflets. It had some winter damage but quickly recovered. The last is my cerifera. It's almost white.

I believe "cerifera" is a synonym of "argentea". "Argentea" is the true botanical name but it's not used for whatever reason. Scott, it's hard to tell from the pic, but it looks like the palm is green to me. It's a good looking palm either way. Mike, I don't think yours is a cerifera, either. The silver/blue/white coloring comes from a waxy substance on the fronds. It doesn't come off, in my experience, unless something rubs it off. Water won't wash it off, either. I've said before, Chamaerops is a very hardy and very underused palm - some made it thru -9F under snow cover here.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:16 pm

The color was definitely green, but the fronds look different from the ones I have at home......Thinner I would say. The tag Silver European Fan Palm was the growers, not the nurseries.

If it is a Silver, didn't know what the difference was between that and other varieties that we usually see.

KrisK · Post by **KrisK** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:02 pm

The silver/blue color is hard to capture on film. In person it's striking. I'm sure you've heard the expression: "You'd know it if you saw it." That's how the cerifera/argentea is. You'll know without a doubt. I bet it was mislabeled, and just a green variant that you saw. I love glaucous plants. Brahea armata and Bismarckia nobilis are a couple of favorites of mine, too bad they just aren't hardy enough for here.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:07 pm

My plan is to take my truck and stop back there. I really want to get one of the tall Christmas palms they have marked down to $50.

I really don't have a place for the ?silver European Fan palm, yet at $25 hate to pass it up either!

My wife has thrown her hands up on all the palms I've bought this past year lol

miketropic · Post by **miketropic** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:29 pm

the one I have was labeled silver as well..blue pot..same growers so if there not silvers then its the growers fault def. I have seen some ceriferas that are so blue they don't look real, which I would love to have

..guess I will wait and see what mine looks like in a few years. even if there both green they have very differant traits so I will keep them both anyways.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:35 pm

The other thing I wondered if it wasn't Silver because it's not in direct sun like I know Blue versions of most any palm tree require to get that Blue color.

It's in a Large greenhouse, with only West facing windows. At one time they had 15 gallon Green Bizzies there but at $275 was too steep for me to buy. Now they are all gone.

Heck, what's another $25?

It's not hard to buy palms now that it's nice out and all them can be outside.

KrisK · Post by **KrisK** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:57 pm

Y'all maybe on to something about full sun = silver/blue.
Scott it's a good lookin palm and definately hard to pass up for 25$.
Both my green chamaerops came from the same lot and both look quite different. Quite a variety in the genus.

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:28 am

If we are talking species - There is only the one; Chamaerops Humilis. There are only 4 accepted variations : C humilis car humilis, var Vulcano, var ARgentia, and cerifera. They are extremely variable, and there have been many name for these, but there are only 4 accepted variations of the species. It does seem that the seedlings will be just as varied as well.

KrisK · Post by **KrisK** » Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:38 am

Cerifera isn't accepted. It's a synonym of the original name Argentea. I wonder why we been callin it wrong all these years?

Here's what some stuffy

British site says about it : http://apps.kew.org/wcsp/qsearch.do?pla ... uickSearch

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:44 am

Damn taxonomy.... lol. Most of the reliable places ive seen call it cerifera.....

Cant be as bad as bamboo taxonomy. I ordered some seeds called "fargesia spathacea" (turned out not to be it). I tried to find information on it but was taken on a month long journey down the road of misnamed bamboo. Found out a common type is misnamed, as well as many other ones ive been looking up on. Fargesia rufa has a good 5 or 6 names. If i remember Fargesia rufa is supposed to be called Fargesia spathacea or F sp. "rufa".....

Its like going down the rabbit hole... "Go ask Alice, I think shell know".

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:30 am

Pics of the palms I found on sale in Sioux City, IA

$50 for the Christmas Palm $25 for the Silver European Fan Palm. They had more Christmas, but all doubles and not quite as big. They also had a lot of TALL Queen palms as well for $50 each anywhere from 8-18 ft same price.

After getting the "silver" home, I think I see what the difference is. The underside of the fronds do have a silvery color to them, where as my other one I have that is "Green" is green on both front and back.

KrisK · Post by **KrisK** » Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:18 pm

Great finds! Glad you got to get them. Both look healthy too. I guess the "Silver" is just something the nursery has printed on the tag, huh? Whatever you call it, it's good-lookin. I think one of my green ones has a silvery white underside. It's composed of fuzz on the underside that rubs off.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:06 am

The fronds have a silvery coating on the undersides, so guessing that is why they call it that.

miketropic · Post by **miketropic** » Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:23 pm

mine does to but it comes off easily or with time..wish it held it till the fron died

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:53 pm

Yes, the coating of Silver does rub off, much like the "blue" on other palms. Still, Palm looks different from the Green version. All potted up in a bit bigger pot and looks good.

KrisK · Post by **KrisK** » Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:31 pm

Looks great. "Silver" med fans must be popular in the trade right now . I just saw a ton of them in Ft Worth at a really cool nursery. The guy said hardy to 5F, think that's a huge stretch myself. Maybe out of the wind, bone-dry 5F.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:39 pm

Krisk, There is a member here that lives in Utah and has a really nice European Fan palm that he over winters and it sits out in the middle of his yard in a raised planted area.

KrisK · Post by **KrisK** » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:59 am

Is it ArcticTropical? That guy is crazy cool with his ability. His stuff is heavy illy protected, though.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:05 am

Can't remember his screen name is, just remember the great looking European fan palm and amazed he could over winter it as isolated as it was.

I'm at my limit for electrical outlets and what they can handle now so can't really add more to it.

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:58 am

sashaeffer wrote:
I'm at my limit for electrical outlets and what they can handle now so can't really add more to it.

You can always add more insulation so you need less wattage....
I am pretty much maxed out here in my upstairs Apt with cords
running downstairs but another layer of bubble wrap on p-protection could mean
palms that have grown over summer etc-don't necessarily need more lights/heat...
and in some cases less-I think I only had 7 C-9 lights in one of my Trachy covers
that is maybe a few gallons short of being trash can sized.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:18 am

For each over wintered in the ground palm they get 1 6ft heat pipe tape around root ball (has built in thermostat) and 1 string of 25 C7 Christmas light string plugged into thermocube, so neither use much power, it's just I have them in series on a house circut. Also have 3 ponds that I keep water flowing in them and keep them from freezing with a stock tank heater in each one.

Since last winter I've added 3 palms to collection in the ground. 1 Windmill 1 Mexican Fan Palm and as an experiment......Pygmy date palm(I know, a stretch but they are a dime a dozen at $10 each, so why not? lol)

Last winters electrical use jumped our monthly power budget by $80 a month. Wife PISSED! but she'll get over it...they always do.

KrisK · Post by **KrisK** » Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:07 pm

Lol. I bet your stock tank heaters did the electric bill damage. Electric resistance heating is expensive. My heatpump has an electric secondary stage. I can always tell if it's been particularly cold by the increased electric usage. Fortunately it doesn't call for the secondary very many times during winter.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:10 pm

AND it didn't help that I bought two radiant electric heaters. 1 for the seedling room, and another for the 3rd car garage where a lot of my cold hardy palms go that aren't in the ground. I won't use that heater this winter. My garage doesn't get below freezing, and I don't want to bear the brunt of my wifes displeasure again over the electric bill.

PalmsNorth.com

How many kinds of European Fan palms?

How many kinds of European Fan palms?

Re: How many kinds of European Fan palms?

Went and bought them...........