Zone 5b palm protection

hasty22 · Post by **hasty22** » Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:13 pm

Here is how I protected my trachy and I believe a European fan palm. I also did my Musa Basjoo in the same way will post photos of that soon in banana section of PN.
I did this last year but without the insulation, instead I used shrink wrap, the only problem with shrink wrap is it holds moisture in. Both the Basjoo and the fan palm survived last winter no problem. Just bought the windmill this spring. These are pictures of the Fan palm. Also put mulch at base to hold cover in place.
Keith

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:53 am

Great job, Keith.

Good idea to minimize moisture inside.
The burlap and insulation will wick moisture away.

Weird transparent connector for the heat tape.
Have never seen one of those.

Quite the shock yesterday morning with the low temps.
We were at -7.7C (18F), but your place would've been milder than that.

Barb

hasty22 · Post by **hasty22** » Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:58 pm

Thanks Barb. Actually did most of that yesterday, but had heat tape going before that. That weird clear heat tape thing is the thermostat and indicator light. I bought them from home depot. Lots of snow this morning but starting to melt away. looks like hopefully rain this week. take care
Keith

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:08 pm

I'm a big fan of heat tape, the sort designed to keep pipes from freezing. Not expensive to buy or use, easy. reliable.
NOT sufficient in zone 5, but I'd start there.

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:49 pm

Looks good but I would put down at least 5" of mulch around it.

hasty22 · Post by **hasty22** » Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:01 pm

Thanks guys for the remarks. Last year all I did was put burlap , heat tape, burlap and shrink wrap and both my european palm and Musa Basjoo survived no problem. This year I replaced the shrink wrap with 4 inch pink insulation wrap and waterproof cover. I am thinking this is much better protection.

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:04 am

I also like the 4" pink fiberglass insulation. Works well, doesn't cost much.

hasty22 · Post by **hasty22** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:13 pm

Hey just trying to post photos directly to post instead of postimage. this is of the trachy winter cover
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hasty22 · Post by **hasty22** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:14 pm

yay it worked

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:26 am

Thanks! Easier for is than clicking.

I put the pipe heating cable right on the plant. The stuff I used never felt hot to the touch so I thought that was safe. Then, I wrapped the burlap (hessian) OVER the heat cable.

However, if you have the pink fiberglass over top of it all, it shouldn't matter.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:54 am

Good work on posting pics Keith.

I put the pipe heating cable right on the plant. The stuff I used never felt hot to the touch so I thought that was safe. Then, I wrapped the burlap (hessian) OVER the heat cable.

Yes I thought that's what you did Erik, but couldn't find the post.

I bought a 40-foot pipe heating cable ... then forgot to use it inside the protection.
All wrapped up, too late now.
Besides, couldn't figure out how I might use it around 3 yucca rostratas between 2 Washies

Barb

hasty22 · Post by **hasty22** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:39 pm

Hello I noticed my trachy leaning lately. So since the temp warmed up decided to check it out. Found out the heat tape wire was fried. Dont know if it was because of the insulation over the heat tape, or faulty heat tape thermostat. Last year I just wrap my plants in heat tape , burlap and shrink wrap and i had no problems. Although this was a different brand of heat tape than i normally use. I looked at the other palm and banana and they look ok. Wrapped it back up with a new heat tape( the other brand ) and just wrapped around trunk. I insulated the fronds ( which look a little worse for wear) . Looks like branches where a little browned from the heat tape shorting out.
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hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:30 pm

Heat tape probably fried from being wet....the proper technique would be...

burlap,then heat tape,then insulation then a water-proof cover....they still
need to be checked to make sure moisture(condensation)is not building up.

In picture #4 in your first post you have the heat tape over the insulation,
there is no way for the heat to get to the palm this way-if you put it under the insulation
it will hardly ever come on and when it does it won't be for long....

Look at it this way,if you were a palm and your mom put on your coat,would it
be better to wrap you in an electric blanket first and then a coat or the blanket
outside the coat in the wind,rain,cold etc....

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:54 pm

Any guess how long it's been shorted, Keith?

What caused the leaning?
Fingers crossed the palm will make it.
Hasn't been very cold since December.

Let us know what you discover re the heat tape.

Barb

hasty22 · Post by **hasty22** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:57 pm

thanks Jim. I applied it exactly how you said. I put burlap, I then wrapped in heat tape, I then wrapped in pink insulation and finally covered with waterproof sack. The only thing I did not check is for condensation. I did not put heat tape over top of insulation. That is green painters tape. Last year on my European fan palm all I did was wrap heat tape then burlap and finally shrink wrap and had no problem.

hasty22 · Post by **hasty22** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:02 pm

Hey Barb . Not sure how long. Not sure what caused the leaning. Fronds not looking great but I think they will survive if weather stays ok. If it survives I think I might just wrap in insulation next year. It has been a fairly mild winter this year.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:07 pm

wrap heat tape then burlap and finally shrink wrap and had no problem.

I remember your pics Keith, and it survived.
I would've bet against it, so good for you!!!

Re the reference to burlap, I think burlap has to be wrapped tightly -- like a second skin.

What brand of heat tape is the one that blew?

The one I bought but forgot to use says "The cable must NOT be buried or come in contact with the ground."

And "The cable must NOT be wrapped or spiraled and must be placed flat to the pipe using Easy Heat HCA brand application tape or a good quality electrical tape with a min 176F 80C temperature rating."

Maybe some of these cables are intended for unheated crawl-space pipes (not out in the elements, even under waterproof cover).

Barb

hasty22 · Post by **hasty22** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:17 pm

Thanks Barb . The brand of heat tape that was on that palm was Easyheat . the other ones I normally use are from HD and are Wrap-on brand. I know the wrap-on brand has a thermostat built in. The Easyheat brand I did not look and do not have wrap. I should have just wrapped in pink insulation, it was a mild winter( so far)
Keith

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:42 pm

Easyheat...that's the one I bought too.
And forgot to use.

They're not cheap, are they...mine's 30 feet and was $50.

Yes it's been a relatively mild winter.
Not over yet...

But I don't think we can risk using insulation alone.
Heat provides that extra bit of insurance.

I just wish we could still buy those C-9 incandescent Christmas lights...
We're all going to new more of them if we're planting more stuff outdoors.

Hopefully the spear of your palm will be fine.
Maybe just wrap it in an old comforter for now with a big piece of plastic over it.

Barb

hasty22 · Post by **hasty22** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:12 am

Thanks Barb. I was thinking last night and remembered last year both the palm and banana were under the overhang of the house. Thus keeping the snow and rain off them. This was the first year I had one out in the middle of the lawn. I should have covered up the end of the heat tape with the thermostat and plug in with a waterproof cover. PS I found a 6 foot heat tape and wrapped around trunk of palm yesterday, wrapped the fronds with insulation. Live and learn!

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:34 am

Sorry,my bad.....

I was referring to the 5th pic in your lead post,it looks like
the yellow tape is heat tape over the insulation????

maybe the heat tape should not overlap(be touching) either?

hasty22 · Post by **hasty22** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:42 am

thanks Jim I took a look at the picture and you are right. I cannot remember but I believe I took that apart and did it the right way last fall. I will go take a peak today.
Keith

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:47 am

heat tape should not overlap(be touching

I think Erik warned us about that a year or two ago.

Reading my (unused) heat-tape package, I notice it says:
"when using 2 cables, overlap cables within overrun zone on opposite sides of pipe." (or palm

What the heck is an overrun zone?
Overlapping, obviously, so does it mean that zone doesn't heat up on the cable?

the first year I had one out in the middle of the lawn. I should have covered up the end of the heat tape with the thermostat and plug in with a waterproof cover.

That's likely it, Keith.
PS--more fog today!!!!!!

Barb

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:01 am

I always did heat tape first, then burlap/hessian, then insulation then plastic covering (which came off most of the time).
Yes, heat tape is supposed to be dry BUT mine was often sopping wet. So, I don't think that is it.
I did make an effort to not let heat tape cross over heat tape. Not sure if that would really be a big deal but I avoided it on general principle.
The heat tape I used (cannot remember brand name, but gave it all to KrisK so he might know) never felt warm to the touch. I often wondered if it was working, but snow in contact with it would melt.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:53 pm

never felt warm to the touch. I often wondered if it was working, but snow in contact with it would melt.

For that reason, agree should be placed in that order:
"heat tape first, then burlap/hessian, then insulation then plastic covering".

BillMA used heat tape too on his Washies, wrapped directly in contact with the trunk.
As far as I recall he never lost a palm because it was in a box too.

Here's a comment re "not crossing heat tape over itself":
And it also says TO NOT USE AN EXTENSION CORD.

http://www.foremost.com/mygreathome/?v= ... -heat-tape

Barb

hasty22 · Post by **hasty22** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:36 pm

come on Barb !! real men don't read instructions. lol. Yes I will be more careful next year.
Also Jim I checked my other palm and I did change the heat tape last fall. I think I looked at and said that does not look right. Went and got new insulation and redone it. It would not work very good with heat tape on outside of insulation.

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TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:51 pm

I always used extension cords, often long ones. Oops. Couldn't afford to hire an electrician to add GFCI outlets out in the palm garden.

hasty22 · Post by **hasty22** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:22 pm

The instruction on my heat tape says to use with a properly sized, grounded and certified outdoor extension cord plugged into permanent receptacle.

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:38 pm

hasty22 wrote:The instruction on my heat tape says to use with a properly sized, grounded and certified outdoor extension cord plugged into permanent receptacle.

That sounds right....

I think there can be a problem when the heat tape is touching and gets wet...you can only get away with so much

I think with that much insulation you could use the little tiny X-mas lights and save yourself $20-$40

I need lots of heat so I always have used c-7/c-9 lights...but there is a big gap in-between my insulation and
the palms I am heating-I also like to use the suns help as much as possible to heat the palms during the day.

On a days like today when it hits 35F the temp inside one enclosure was 72F max....Cactus enclosure saw 61F-just right.

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On the coldest night so far(-4F)temp ranged from 30F to 40F inside the Princeps enclosure...

Washy

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Shell game-which one is the Princeps

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:49 pm

Nice pics, Jim!

hasty22 · Post by **hasty22** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:04 pm

Nice Jim . What do you use for support under the bubble wrap?

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:15 pm

Love that last pic, Jim.
Glowing lanterns...

Barb

hasty22 · Post by **hasty22** » Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:42 pm

Heat tape fried my windmill palm ( probably my fault)

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/93791924@N08/8562395947/" title="DSCF3025 by hasty22, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8519/8562 ... 43910e.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="DSCF3025"></a>

Also my Chinese fan palm has a little damage but will be ok

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/93791924@N08/8563503378/" title="DSCF3026 by hasty22, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8392/8563 ... 079bbf.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="DSCF3026"></a>

And then the Musa Basjoo looking real good!!

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/93791924@N08/8563502990/" title="DSCF3027 by hasty22, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8386/8563 ... b35077.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="DSCF3027"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/93791924@N08/8563502516/" title="DSCF3028 by hasty22, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8366/8563 ... c2de04.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="DSCF3028"></a>

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Mar 16, 2013 8:12 pm

Keith, aw, that's too bad; that first pic does not look good.

Once spring really arrives and you cut off the Chinese Fan's brown leaves, you won't even know it was damaged.
I'm still amazed you've got that growing outside.
Impressive actually with very little damage.
Remember some of us thought it was a European Fan Palm? (or maybe it was just me).

Cool pic of the Basjoo leaf growing out the top

Good work!

Maybe start asking around neighbors/friends to see if you can trade LED lights for the old style.
C7s or C9s, glass bulbs.
Come next October, you don't want to scramble trying to find them 'coz they're illegal to be sold here.
And a T-3 thermocube.
How's that for planning for next winter?

Barb

hasty22 · Post by **hasty22** » Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:21 pm

Thanks Barb. Yes I agree I think I will try and protect the palms like Jim does. His seem to work quite well.

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