Just received first batch of seeds...what first??

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:23 pm

6 Foxtail and 6 Christmas Palm seeds.

I've seen the pictures on the Foxtail about how to delid, but can't find any on the Christmas Palm(Veichia Merrillii) They came with dried up fruit on outside so removed that to get seed out. Tested if they float in water and all 6 sank like stones. Do Christmas palm seeds need to be de-lided? or will they germinate fast just by letting them soak for 24hrs. I think I can tell where the "eye" is on one end.

Since I only have 6, don't want to experiment.

Anyone grow this palm from seed? any advice will be appreciated!

TimMAz6 · Post by **TimMAz6** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:40 pm

I never tried those palms Scott.....keep us posted on their progress.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:59 am

I saw where Barb was unsure about a seed of some kind as well so she lightly sanded the entire surface so that is what I did. There seemed to be a hard covering that came off, so well see.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:07 am

I think they'll germinate fast Scott, mine sure did with only a light sanding.
Mine sank quickly too, fresh seed apparently does (John had just brought them back from Mexico).

Here's a pic of Christmas palm seed (Veitchia) stuff that I scraped off with a knife.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/southslope/6598292879/" title="DSC05212 by edible_plum, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7171/6598 ... 883a_z.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="DSC05212"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/southslope/6625526579/" title="DSC05214 by edible_plum, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7159/6625 ... afbf_z.jpg" width="480" height="640" alt="DSC05214"></a>

I use different methods...some in community pots, some in individual pots.
This year I've got a whack of those expandable peat pots so am using those.

The little spear-beginning came up sideways through the peat pellet wrapper. I very carefully cut that fabric.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/southslope/6726921993/" title="DSC05298 by edible_plum, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7017/6726 ... 9a6c_z.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="DSC05298"></a>

Because they were fresh, they all came up quickly at 85F near the woodstove, tallest one is 3 inches today.

Yours will too, Scott.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:18 pm

Well seedling #1 that had popped seemed to have dried up and died....there are others coming up behind it in other cells.

I had fear of giving them any water just relying on moisture from condensation that forms in the plastic dome/lid to keep things moist. Should I be giving them a little squirt of water every day in the cells?

Soil I'm using is special blend for seed germination by Miracle Grow.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:07 pm

If the soil is moist, then maybe it's damping off.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damping_off

But if soil is dry, yes. Condensation isn't enough IMO.
Condensation is beneficial for leaves/humidity but doesn't do a thing for first roots if they're dry.

I water my "seed flats" (whatever I'm using) generally from the bottom, and also misting on top.
The bottom water soaks up into dry soil as needed for the beginning roots, if and when there are any.

You'll have better luck with the rest of them, I'm sure.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:10 pm

Thanks Barb, I will start adding some water to the tray and let the water soak up into the cells.

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:03 pm

Christmas palm seeds have been the easiest ever palm seed to germinate for me -- but I have killed every single seedling.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:08 pm

Why is that do you think?

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:12 pm

Not sure, but I think it is watering. The seedlings seemed more susceptible to both over and under watering vs. the Sabal minor I am used to. The ones I know from Belize grow in sandy (= well draining) soil, in the tropics.
Ironically, the last Christman palm seedling to die was from a seed I had given up on and tossed out in the garden last June; it then germinated near an Ensete

I dug it up and potted it when we moved. It got too dry when we were gone to Belize for three weeks in winter.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:18 pm

Ya know I think a lot about how mother nature does it, seed and seedlings to fend for themselves and here we are trying to give them every advantage to ha and have a easy time of it and somehow unless your really skilled at it, we mess it up somehow.

This is my first attempt at growing ANY palm. I have some California palms seeds sprout, but one quickly shriveled up and died...from lack of water. I have since adjusted how much I give them since more are sprouting but it seems like you really have to baby them along.

Just received 200 Mexican palm seeds and am going to do them a little different. First batch of 18 I've sanded and soaked for 3 days and will plant tonight in Styrofoam cups in a germination greenhouse with bottom heat. The next batch I do I will soak, but not sand...to mimic mother nature a little more and see if I have better results. I know the sanding is supposed to help speed up germination, but maybe it too causes other problems that make the sprouts harder to keep alive to where they can be planted in regular soil.

Maybe with seeds, less IS more?

TimMAz6 · Post by **TimMAz6** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:48 pm

Hi Scott,

sorry about the seedlings dying.......I guess my rule of thumb would be to take the pot/container to the sink and water it until water is seeping out the bottom. Let it fully drain so no more water is coming out bottom holes. Don't water again for 3 or 4 days. The top surface should be looking dry but not fully dry. Don't let pots/containers sit in water or the root tips will die. I usually start seeds about May 1 in my area since my biggest problem is lack of sun. My seedlings would get too 'leggy' if I started them this early.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:10 pm

Don't let pots/containers sit in water or the root tips will die

Tim makes a good point.
When I water "dry container" from the bottom, the water has to soak up into the soil in, say, 15 minutes.
If not, the soil obviously wasn't dry and I dump the tray's water out.

Oh Erik, that's a shame, I know how much you love Christmas palms.
You'll get more seeds next time you're in Belize...or come on up here and you can have a seedling

Scott, looking forward to seeing those 200 seeds pop.

Barb

TimMAz6 · Post by **TimMAz6** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:52 pm

I water Yucca seedlings like Barb.........from the bottom and after the top soil is moist I discard all water in the bottom tray. Repeat every few days.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:45 am

The thing with the germination trays with the bottom heat is that the tray itself isn't totally flat. Maybe it's the ones I bought (kits) but only the center row is flat and the two outer "rows" won't sit totally flat against the bottom so any water I add to the bottom tries to pool along the center.

Barb, The hobby of palm trees has made me a more patient person! I only took like 40 of the 200 Mexican fan palm seeds to try and grow. I'm trying different things to see for me what works best. Have some in standard germination bottom heat germination tray, some in cups with plastic cling wrap and rubber band in both the inside greenhouse, and some just sitting out in the living room, while 8 others I have in zip lock back with peat moss/soil hanging in inside greenhouse. I'm going to put some also in the outside greenhouse and let them be subjected to the temp swings that are in there, although it never falls below 50 deg because of the heater. Just going to see what happens.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:20 am

Scott, third pic, that's a heck of a lot of condensation.
Or too much perlite

I can't tell what it is.
Open them up each day to let that condensation dissipate, they need some air to prevent fungus.
Open up the GH plastic too, or take it off frequently.

Couldn't see the temp on that thermometer, what does it average?

Glad that you love this hobby, Scott!

Re your comment about trying 40 of the 200 seeds ... remember that fresh seeds are best.
So I'd plant all of them in various methods like you're doing, that's good.

With some seeds, letting them sit dry in storage induces a second dormancy.
Don't know which species though.

Barb