Beginning the germination process!

Cameron_z6a_N.S. · Post by **Cameron_z6a_N.S.** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:53 pm

Barb, give it a few days, and if it has moved, then you know it's a radicle

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:18 pm

Tim, thanks, have read those websites so often I think I've got 'em memorized

Cameron of course you're right.
I just need to do something while waiting.
I'll stare them into germinating...

or join the army for a year or so

Barb

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:45 am

One has popped after ~8 weeks (from John's MX trip).

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/southslope/6911464899/" title="003 by edible_plum, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7197/6911 ... d790_z.jpg" width="480" height="640" alt="003"></a>

The scuzzy looking stuff is the wrap around the peat pellet.

Barb

TimMAz6 · Post by **TimMAz6** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:46 pm

nice job Barb!

Okanagan desert-palms · Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:50 pm

Barb glad you got one to germinate. Still waiting on my S.burmudiana. and the Butia X Jubea you gave me. The waiting will continue

John

damir · Post by **damir** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:47 am

barb, do i see the worm? few times all seeds were eaten by them in my case when i tryed to germinate some seeds.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:07 am

John, the waiting is horrible.

Hope all your Veitchia Christmas palms germinated.
I got 100% from those very fresh seeds, thanks!

Barb

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:08 am

barb, do i see the worm? few times all seeds were eaten by them in my case when i tryed to germinate some seeds.

postimage.org...

W O R M ???????? OH MY GOD....

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:24 am

damir, you must be right about it being a worm.
I don't see it today.

A WORM IN MY HOUSE?

What could I water the seeds with? will anything kill the worm?

EEEEEUUUUUWWWWW, this is so disgusting

Are you saying that worms ARRIVE with seeds?

Barb

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:30 am

Barb, did you leave a bottle of Tequila open?

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:47 am

No but I just might crack open a bottle...just from the thought of a worm in my house.
Or worm(s) plural.

UGH

Damir....hellllooooooo? answer please......sorry....it's probably midnight in Croatia

damir · Post by **damir** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:23 pm

i saw just one , which one i showed u in the picture.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:34 pm

Yes and I'm grateful you showed me damir

but what can I do about it?
What will kill the worm?

Do they come with the seeds?????
Where? Inside the seeds?

I'm afraid to ask how many there might be

Barb

damir · Post by **damir** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:00 am

those small worms often comes in soil you buy in shop, mostly in not good quality soils. the best thing to do now, is you take the seeds out of the soil. put it in water with some insecticide for one day, if the seeds didnt germinate till now, and plant it again in "perlite". perlite is the best solution for germinating seeds.
this small worms eat interior of the seeds, and often that seed rots. throw that soil, it is not good. and it can infect the other soil around it.

sterile soil in germination is very important. if you dont have it, boil the soil in water for half hour, to kills all the fungi, worms, eggs of insects.... when it's done, dry the soil, and you may plant the seeds in.
or just use a perlite.
rgds

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:05 am

damir,

thanks for the advice.
Will get busy!

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:15 am

I've had now about 4 of 30 California Fan Palm seeds pop in the last couple of days. They are in a germination grow tray with bottom heat and a plastic cover/lid.

At what point should I remove the lid for good?

TimMAz6 · Post by **TimMAz6** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:14 pm

I'd remove the plastic cover when leaves emerge through the soil. Air movement will be important once you see the leaves.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:41 pm

Thanks Tim. Right now the few that have popped are the ones where it's warmest in the center of the germination tray, but still look like little spears poking up.

The germination trays and covers are also inside a free standing covered greenhouse to help hold in the heat.

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:35 pm

After some back tracking and thinking, it turns out some Magnolia Tripitala are germinating. ORdered them prestratified, and put them in the fridge for a month and a half. 4 out of 30 germinated in 3 days of taking them out! I pricked them out of the flat, and put them in dixie cups. Ill post pics when they pop out of the soil

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:17 am

congrats on the 3-day germinating Jesse!

Re the Jubaea worm (still have the heebie-jeebies from that

).
It was from using my not sterilized outdoor SAND!!!! (I use sand as topdress in some germinating pots to minimize fungus gnats.)
Won't do that anymore.

Did the worm cause this mushy seed?

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/southslope/6927261365/" title="007 by edible_plum, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7184/6927 ... c8af_z.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="007"></a>

So I removed all the Jubaea seeds that had unsterlized sand as top dressing, soaked them in Safer's Insecticidal Soap for an hour.
Then put the 6 seeds into a baggie w. perlite.

I NEVER have luck with baggies for either palms or cycads.
Buying some more sterilized soil today and will transfer seeds to individual pots.

The other 5 Jubaea seeds all look like the following pic.
Is this worm damage too?

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/southslope/6927261359/" title="004 by edible_plum, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7069/6927 ... 8087_z.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="004"></a>

Barb

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:14 am

Thats too bad barb. Ive rotted many seeds. GO through the soil looking for seeds, and cant find anything thats hard like seeds.

damir · Post by **damir** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:40 am

barb, this few seeds you showed, had too much water in soil. perlite is the best solution for germinating seeds.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:03 am

But doesn't perlite always stay dry even when pouring water on it? Doesn't all seed need some sort of moisture around it to germinate and thrive?

TimMAz6 · Post by **TimMAz6** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:24 am

Sorry about the seeds Barb. I tried Jub's and never got any to germ either. I've never tried perlite in plastic bags. Perhaps someone has some tips. I've always used peat moss in plastic bags. Soak the peat until saturated, then squeeze as hard as you can (with hands) to remove excess water.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:48 am

Thanks damir, appreciate the advice.
Puzzling because I use the same amount of water in all my germinating pots.
Veitchia, Sabal bermudiana, foxtails, several Phoenix have all come up at good germinating percentages.

I've never liked perlite (by the way Scott...perlite is moistened only by mister spritzing into the baggies, and then sealing).
But my baggie attempts have never been successful so maybe not enough moisture?
Plus, with perlite being white, can't see a white shoot growing.
Causes too much damage when handling too late.

Tim, I hate peat moss!
Bought a bale years ago, didn't tape it shut and the whole thing dried out.
So much that it NEVER re-hydrates, even when I press it down with a small board while it's floating on a water filled bowl.

It's just a 2-foot x 3-foot brick in my basement.

Since I've probably totally @#^&*%$ the Jubaea germination, may just take a hammer to the rest of them for the hell of it.

And God forbid if I see a worm...

Barb

TimMAz6 · Post by **TimMAz6** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:49 pm

Hi Barb,

I know what you mean about trying to re-hydrate the peat moss. It does take hours!

Perhaps the 'worms' are on the seeds when we get them?? Perhaps a soak in a 10:1 chlorine bath is needed for those seeds??........or even better.........mail order seedlings!:D

Tim

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:09 pm

I used to soak every seed arrival in diluted bleach...yet didn't with the Jubaeas.
They were mail order

Sheesh, never thought about it before but can you imagine the creepy/crawlies that end up in confiscation bins at borders?
in/from Tropical countries? yuk.

Bet the border nazis go home scratchin' some days.
eeeeuuuuuwww.

Okanagan desert-palms · Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:33 pm

Barb sorry to see what happened to the JubX seeds. I still have the ones you gave me germinating in tupper ware with Sunshine # 4 soil mix with H. peroxide spray every three days. I`m hope they don`t look like that after . I got 90% on the Chrismas palm seeds. S. burmudiana 3 so far. I also have 4 Musa Sikkimensis so far started. I`m a proud Papa

.

John

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:21 pm

So far John only one Jubaea was total mush.
How do you resist the urge to hammer one on the concrete at this stage?
I'm having a helluva time holding off.

About half were in mix #4 (no sand added thankfully to that group!

), so I'm still hoping they're OK.
Do you open your tupperware lid for half a day?

Nothing yet from the mystery oil palm that, based on Erik's photos in Belize, we thought might be Attalea cohune.

S. bermudiana just 1 so far.
Christmas palms 8
a whole bunch of Phoenix dactylifera, both Medjool and Deglet Noor. How many do you want

Barb

Okanagan desert-palms · Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:46 pm

Barb I take the lid off once a day just to check on the Jubea x and spray them with hydrogen peroxide. The waiting goes on

I don`t think the Cohune palm seeds were quite ripe when I picked them. I opened up a couple to see. Three S. burmudiana. 10 Christmas palms. P. dactylifera sound real nice. I would trade you something ,but you already have all the ones I do.

John

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:45 am

My cacad seeds are pretty similar to the jubs, with the exception that they hve germinated, but have not done a thing for weeks. They put down the radicle, and started to crack the shell, but other then that, they are sitting there, mocking me. None of them rotted, mind you, but they are definitely taking their time

Cameron_z6a_N.S. · Post by **Cameron_z6a_N.S.** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:56 pm

Canadianplant, when your cycads begin to send up their first fronds, they will emerge very quickly!

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:40 pm

John did you take a photo of the ones you opened?
I think two months is too soon (sheesh...ME say that?)

I'll pot up the P.dactys...hopefully they'll be a decent size for your summer visit.
or at least still alive.

No trade necessary.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:42 pm

Jesse, yes Cameron's bang on.
You'll be rewarded very soon.

Worry if there's no radicle...ever.

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:34 am

Barb/Cameron - ITs weird. All the "old" types of plants (ferns, cycads, ginkgo etc), seem to be a bit "laid back" when it comes to growing. The seeds of the older plants take a long time to get going. Part of the reason why scientists think angiosperms took over (aside from conifers and ferns, they seem to have done quite well!). Im finding it hard to keep the moisture level right. IF i keep the lid on, they seem to start to mould slightly, when I take the lid off, they dry out in a day or 2....

Regardless, im glad to see something happening!

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:28 am

Cycads are tough as nails.
You've probably heard the saying "never throw away a cycad; it'll come back".

Better dry than mouldy, Jesse.

They look so cool when germinating, resembling a hamburger:

here's Cycas debaoensis in '08.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/southslope/2656910082/" title="DSC01455 by edible_plum, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3296/2656 ... bf12_z.jpg" width="480" height="640" alt="DSC01455"></a>

IMO, Jubaeas take a heck of a lot longer than the cycads I've tried.

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:42 am

Thats pretty much what mine look like (zamia florisomething, called "coontie"). There is no green on the radicle (im assuming the green is the flush of leaves poping?

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:12 am

California Fan Palm best of the rest following behind it.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:57 pm

Jesse, I can't remember if that green became the leaves, but I don't think so.
It's just the radicle that--once it hit the soil--turned into a brown "root".
I think the leaf flush emerged from there but it sent up an entirely different "spear".
Keep 'em warm and they'll move.

Scott, congrats!

Now the fun stuff starts.
My old eyes tried to read your temp...was it 70-something?
Palm germination does really well at 85-90F

I'd open everything up for half the day, turn on the heat lamp, set a fan on low to blow some really warm air around and dissipate the moisture.

Nice job!
Barb

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:55 am

It might have shown in the 70's. Most seeds have heat mats under them, the baggies naturally don't just letting them get what ever heat the sun, and the heat the greenhouse hold in on it's own. I do have a 60W light on the bottom shelf that shines UP to supplement heat in there, and it helps keep some of the condensation at bay on the sides.

PalmsNorth.com

Beginning the germination process!

Sabal bermudiana germinating