Phoenix ?? cold hardy in zone 7a

damir · Post by **damir** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:21 pm

about one and year ago, i discovered few palm seedlings in one garden. after the winter that year seedlings were still alive. i didn't know what specie it belongs to, cause there were just those first leaves, undivided ones. at my surprise in walk last night, i saw it is a feather palm. i thought it might be the trachy or some other cold hardy palm. today i took some pics of it,see it below. i talked to the owner, and he said that the seeds came from our coast. there are 5 seedlings , never protected in this 3 years of life. lowest temp last year was -13C one morning,lot of days with -10C, and more than a 2 weeks temps didnt reach the plus temps. this year lowest -12C, mostly around -5. what amazes me is that it wasn't protected never in the winter. i saw many phoenix palms that owners forgot to take inside,and all of them are toasted. these are just seedlings,and no any visible damage. surely i must get this seeds. it looks promising in cold hardiness.

what do you think, what could it be? phoenix is, but which one?? canariensis, dacty, or a hybride?? or something else?
please comment!
rgds

damir · Post by **damir** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:24 pm

palms are in south position. if it is a CIDP it should have thicker leaves, but it looks like it is not. dacty ?? maybe, or a hybride?? it is very interesting, at least for me, cause seeing feather palm planted in the ground in my county is not frequent opportunities. specially if it can handle our winters, this is zone 7a, not 9a or 9b. this looks very promising. need to get this seeds!! yesterday i was in one garden center ,and there were left few cidps outdoor. all toasted. and this few from the topic are alive ,green and no sign of any damage. never protected!!

the same topic is posted in EPS,same text,pics....

what do you think? what is it? i will post what will happened in spring,summer.... but there is a great chance it survives!!

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:30 pm

That's very exciting Damir!!!!

Definitely not a Trachy, 3rd photo definitely looks like CIDP (mine has skinny leaves too.)
The people who forgot to bring their CIDP inside...did you see any with seeds?

-12C is phenomenal for any Phoenix survival after germination.

Please take some photos every month so we can watch them develop...are you going to ask for permission to dig one or two out?

You give us all hope!
Barb

DesertZone · Post by **DesertZone** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:37 pm

Very cool, please keep us updated.

damir · Post by **damir** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:01 am

barb, those bigger ones that stayed outdoor and toasted, are just bigger cidps in pots, no seeds on it. they are not mature to have seeds. i doubt that any cidp here grown in pots can have seeds. there must be and the male palm next to it. i am glad i found this few survivors. my trachys that are left without any protection this year, have some leaf burn now, and this palms that are less cold tolerant,actually for zone 9,and this is 7a to 6b, don't have any damage. and they were never protected in 3 years of life!!! if you remember last year what i did with my cidp, all those protection and struggle... and it barely survived, but it was 99 % defoliated. this few, the same last year were smaller than now, with no any protection and didnt get any damage, survived, green and healthy!!! there must be a catch. this is very promising phoenix palm. even if it could survive with some passive protection, i would be very happy to have few in the garden. imagine, cidp palm in my shity climate usda 7a.

you will be informed what happens with it.
regards

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:35 am

interesting...

You gotta think. They seem to be near a south facing concrete wall. That alone should give you a zone extra. I believe you get snow there too, so thats some more protection.

Ill have to agree with Barb, and at least call it a Phoenix. You wont know what one till it gets bigger. I know CIDP can take more frost then we give it credit for, but -10 is pushing it. You may have a situation like me, where you are close to a lake/mountains etc, that create a warmer area, then where the temps are taken (that is, unless you take your own temps...) The spot they are in might not even go below -8C, which IMO would be warm enough (with rebounding temps), to let CIDp make it over the winter.

That being said, there is one type of Phoenix, that is rated to zone 7: Phoenix theophratsii. ITs from crete, and is pretty rare in cultivation, so the odds that is what those plants are, are low.

One thing I DO know, is that Dactylifera, is not as cold hardy as CIDP, the same can be said for most phoenix. The only one I can say I have seen regularly stated below zone 8, is theophratsii. I also believe that there are a few types of dwarf phoenix up in the himalayas, and are fairly new to cultivation, so the hardiness again, is unsure. I think its safe to say that they are rare enough not to be one ones in question.

KrisK · Post by **KrisK** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:26 am

That's really neat. I'm not knowledgable about the Phoenix genus. However, I'll put my 2 cents in, and that's about all it's worth. I think I read these were 3 years old. They should have more leaves if they're that old, so it's prolly a safe bet they are defoliated every winter. I think what's going on, is that their growth point is still underground, saving them from death. Just my opinion but maybe totally wrong. Wish I am, in fact! I want a Phoenix for 7a!

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:37 am

Very interesting indeed!
Yes, keep us updated.
Kris, you could grow a CIDP if you built it a heated palm hut every winter. They would like our hot dry summers.
I bought a decent size CIDP around here last spring. Growing it in a pot, but I set it outside yesterday as it was so warm

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:48 am

remember last year what i did with my cidp

Yes I remember the glass cage, a lot of work you did.

my shity climate usda 7a

I'd give my eye teeth for a 7a

surely i must get this seeds. it looks promising in cold hardiness.

Since you haven't seen any seeds anywhere on the potted palms, I'd dig out the seedlings and bring them home to plant at your place.

their growth point is still underground, saving them from death.

Disagree with KrisK that seedling Phoenix have their terminal bud that low after 3 years as would, say, an Attalea (which Erik just "introduced" me to during his pics from Belize). But seeing the mulch so high (no sign of a trunk yet) would lead us all to that conclusion, KrisK.
Phoenix' oldest leaves should have been fried in those temps even if the bud were alive.

Which all makes me think it's not a Phoenix.
Darn.

I've just started a couple of P.dacty seeds...first growth is 1 inch long

, so it'll be a while until I can compare appearance.

Barb

damir · Post by **damir** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:48 am

today i went there again. and i spoke to lady which palms belongs to. she said that her husband is wrong. the seeds of this palms are phoenix dactylifera, true date palm. she bought it in local shop, about 4 to 5 years ago, shop called konzum, like walmart in USA. specie is deglet nour. this dates are 99% present on market here in croatia, besides mozafati from iran -black sweet dates, my favorite ones. palms are very close to the house, sout side. never protected. she said that only 1st year they froze to the ground but in spring they recovered. the biggest looks great, she will keep it to herself and rest of it she will give it to me in spring

!!! she has a theory that the palms adjust to new enviroment. if you know what is permaculture, you will know what i think. see it in you tube sepp holzer permaculture. very interesting. in austrian alps, at elevation of around 1500 metres, alpine climate, this mr. holzer grows kiwi,lemons,grape..... all kind of mediterranean fruits..... very interesting thing. must see. who knows, maybe this is the case in this case with this palms???

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:08 am

damir,

that's fascinating!!!!!

Wonderful that you'll be able to dig out the others in spring.

Yes I've seen those pics of med fruits that are grown in the Alps, and palms in Switzerland, etc. etc.
Really enjoyed viewing all those pics years ago.

Here are some P.dactylifera I started from edible dates.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/southslope/2126525973/" title="DSC00720 by edible_plum, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2349/2126 ... 3a2e_z.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="DSC00720"></a>

Yes, OK, they must be a Phoenix then!!!!

Wonderful news, as Phoenix dacty and others grow in Zone 8, especially with some protection:

http://www.aqualityplant.com/AQPBlog.ns ... RPI6NJ.htm

And wouldn't it be WONDERFUL if it were a P.dacty

the blue on the seedling at left is wonderful.

Now I'm really getting excited, damir!!!!

Barb

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:24 am

damir wrote:today i went there again. and i spoke to lady which palms belongs to. she said that her husband is wrong. the seeds of this palms are phoenix dactylifera, true date palm. she bought it in local shop, about 4 to 5 years ago, shop called konzum, like walmart in USA. specie is deglet nour. this dates are 99% present on market here in croatia, besides mozafati from iran -black sweet dates, my favorite ones. palms are very close to the house, sout side. never protected. she said that only 1st year they froze to the ground but in spring they recovered. the biggest looks great, she will keep it to herself and rest of it she will give it to me in spring !!! she has a theory that the palms adjust to new enviroment. if you know what is permaculture, you will know what i think. see it in you tube sepp holzer permaculture. very interesting. in austrian alps, at elevation of around 1500 metres, alpine climate, this mr. holzer grows kiwi,lemons,grape..... all kind of mediterranean fruits..... very interesting thing. must see. who knows, maybe this is the case in this case with this palms???

Dactylifera eh....?

I jsut took a quick look at your climate date. it says your average low for jan is -4C. That would lead me to assume, that lows below say, -8C, are not the norm there? Obviously temps of -13C are possible, but how often does that happen? I think, it may have a chance there for the long end of "short term". Once it gets above that wall, Im not sure how long it will last.

As for permaculture. Im quite familiar with it. I should pick up Holzer's book actually.

The thing is, it may or may not be this situation. IF that family is versed in permaculture, I can see why the placed if where, and why they did. It does tend to teach you quite a bit on microclimtes, and possibly changing those micro climates into something more useful. That is one of the reasons I gained interest in it.

coconutmike · Post by **coconutmike** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:02 pm

In northern Florida Phoenix Canariensis usually gets fried and Phoenix Sylvestris usually after but the Phoenix Dacty rarely gets damaged my friend there swears it is the toughest in the group
CoconutMike

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:23 pm

This thread has gotten me interested in my Phoenix.
The first photo is of a potted CIDP I bought locally last Spring.

The second is my mystery Phoenix, to compare with Damir's.

A wife of an acquaintance of a friend heard I liked palms and so dug up these seedlings from her yard and stuck them in a pot with ordinary garden dirt--mostly clay. The story I got was that they were volunteers from a mature date palm. I knew that was impossible, and so just said, "Wow! That's incredible!" and set them aside, figuring they would die. But they have not, and have even grown some. I'm sure it is too latet to track down the story I discounted, but after what Damir found, now I wonder.

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/b ... site"><img src="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-NlCO ... 141658.jpg" height="640" width="480" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/terdalfarm ... e">January 2012</a></td></tr></table>

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/C ... site"><img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-64Ee ... 141639.jpg" height="640" width="480" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/terdalfarm ... e">January 2012</a></td></tr></table>

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:18 pm

Hmmmm Eric. Some literature states that P Theophratsii is more then likely, the, or one of the parents of the now known "dactylifera". IF this is true, planting those dates from seed may cause them to revert in some ways. Maybe hardiness? Hybrid plants are hard to grow true from seed. Also, IIR, the commercial date palm is propagated from suckers, NOT seed due to the inability to say what the offspring will be.

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:55 pm

FTR, I did not believe the story about the origin of the seedlings I was given when I first heard it and don't now. Maybe they were started from store-bought dates (like Barb has) and the story got twisted in the re-telling? Maybe the palm owner lived in south Texas not south Tulsa and that part of the story was what was mixed up? I'll never know.
But damir's story has me thinking about them again!

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:12 pm

propagated from suckers, NOT seed due to the inability to say what the offspring will be.

Jesse, yes but isn't that only because they want commercial date production, i.e. high quality dates.

Erik,
Nice CIDP.
But I'll eat my shoes if that second pic is a Phoenix...of any kind.

Barb

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:17 pm

Any guess?

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:17 pm

Looks liek my washy seedlings

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:03 pm

I'm drawing a blank, Erik.

damir,
this may interest you on P.dacty... -7C low.

http://www.plantoftheweek.org/week432.shtml

Barb

damir · Post by **damir** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:58 am

canadianplant wrote:
damir wrote:today i went there again. and i spoke to lady which palms belongs to. she said that her husband is wrong. the seeds of this palms are phoenix dactylifera, true date palm. she bought it in local shop, about 4 to 5 years ago, shop called konzum, like walmart in USA. specie is deglet nour. this dates are 99% present on market here in croatia, besides mozafati from iran -black sweet dates, my favorite ones. palms are very close to the house, sout side. never protected. she said that only 1st year they froze to the ground but in spring they recovered. the biggest looks great, she will keep it to herself and rest of it she will give it to me in spring !!! she has a theory that the palms adjust to new enviroment. if you know what is permaculture, you will know what i think. see it in you tube sepp holzer permaculture. very interesting. in austrian alps, at elevation of around 1500 metres, alpine climate, this mr. holzer grows kiwi,lemons,grape..... all kind of mediterranean fruits..... very interesting thing. must see. who knows, maybe this is the case in this case with this palms???
Dactylifera eh....?

I jsut took a quick look at your climate date. it says your average low for jan is -4C. That would lead me to assume, that lows below say, -8C, are not the norm there? Obviously temps of -13C are possible, but how often does that happen? I think, it may have a chance there for the long end of "short term". Once it gets above that wall, Im not sure how long it will last.

As for permaculture. Im quite familiar with it. I should pick up Holzer's book actually.

The thing is, it may or may not be this situation. IF that family is versed in permaculture, I can see why the placed if where, and why they did. It does tend to teach you quite a bit on microclimtes, and possibly changing those micro climates into something more useful. That is one of the reasons I gained interest in it.

that information about low temps here is not true. this is how it goes. temps of -10 to -15 C every year, now it depens for how long will that be. it can last few days with rising to zero C or above, or it can be couple of weeks below zero, 2 or 3 weeks. temps of -18 C might appear few times in winter, and lowest temp recorded here is -26 C . but i dont remember when that was, since i am not from around here, i moved here 8 years ago. so -15 to -20C not a big deal. but summers are too hot,humid and sunny. ideal for palms like sabal minor,needle palm...

yes, this permaculture is very interesting thing. imagine, growing lemons at those elevations in austrian alps!! lemons!! i know that even in Dalmatia here, lemons froze sometimes. and dalmatia is zone 9 b.

damir · Post by **damir** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:20 am

lucky1 wrote:I'm drawing a blank, Erik.

damir,
this may interest you on P.dacty... -7C low.

http://www.plantoftheweek.org/week432.shtml

Barb

it depense what are the conditions in winter. if the soil is dry it can handle much lower temps.
i have one variety of date palm from Turkmenistan. those are made from selection of palms from iran,iraq..... in 1960s i think. some of those survivors even defoliated after -14C, recovered next year and flower and had fruits the same next year. few times in its history of existance, those palms in turkmenistan experienced temps of around -15 -16C. BUT, the soil is dry there over the winter time,arid climate. see the climate data. town is called Turkmenbasy, near Atrek river. friend of mine sent me 3 seeds of those,and now they are 1 and half leaf date palm seedlings, one i gave to other friend. hope in future it can show the hardiness. this is the cold hardest date palm. also somewhere i saw that Zahedi variety from Iraq is more cold tolerant than the others.... i have lot of seeds from date palms, i eat the dates and there are about 30 seeds to plant. now all the seeds i have i will plant outdoor,if something survives like those in the pisc, great! if not.. i'll get those that survived

.

damir · Post by **damir** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:26 am

lucky1 wrote:damir,

that's fascinating!!!!!

Wonderful that you'll be able to dig out the others in spring.

Yes I've seen those pics of med fruits that are grown in the Alps, and palms in Switzerland, etc. etc.
Really enjoyed viewing all those pics years ago.

Here are some P.dactylifera I started from edible dates.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/southslope/2126525973/" title="DSC00720 by edible_plum, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2349/2126 ... 3a2e_z.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="DSC00720"></a>

Yes, OK, they must be a Phoenix then!!!!
Wonderful news, as Phoenix dacty and others grow in Zone 8, especially with some protection:

http://www.aqualityplant.com/AQPBlog.ns ... RPI6NJ.htm

And wouldn't it be WONDERFUL if it were a P.dacty
the blue on the seedling at left is wonderful.

Now I'm really getting excited, damir!!!!

Barb

barb, if you thing of those palms in Swiss, those places are zone 8 ore 9. there is no much trouble growing palms outdoor. there are jubaeas,trachy,butia,chamaerops...with no protection, because it is in zones 8 or 9 i think.

damir · Post by **damir** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:42 am

barb, you kept seeds too long in water. a month? 2 or 3 days in water are just fine.it grows in desert, too much water can kill it. dates are very easy to grow. just needs deeper pots (-as for the all other palms) to grow well,good drainage,full sun and not too much of water.

this is very interesting story down in links. this palm germinated after 2000 years! now what other plant specie can do that?!!
rgds

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... -tree.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judean_date_palm

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:41 am

damir, yes I did keep the seeds too long in water.
I have only 2 new date palms that germinated

damir, how deep do you plant date palm seeds? Just covered? or an inch down?

Yes, had read about Methuselah growing...fabulous!
Wonder if there's a photo of how big it is now.

And I think Cameron has a date palm seed that he brought back from Egypt years ago...wonder how that's doing.

i have lot of seeds from date palms, i eat the dates and there are about 30 seeds to plant. now all the seeds i have i will plant outdoor,if something survives like those in the pisc, great! if not.. i'll get those that survived icon_wink.gif .

Wonderful that you have so many varieties of dates available in your markets.
I'll have to visit one of our specialty stores to see if they have more than just Medjool; will look for some Deglet Noor.

This topic rekindled my love for Phoenix palms, so here are a few excerpts from my Palm encyclopedia:

Phoenix genus includes 13 palms, 9 with clustering trunks, 4 with solitary.
All species freely hybridize one with another.

Phoenix acaulis (trunkless) "has some hardiness to cold" good for cactus or succulent garden as it is drought tolerant.

Phoenix andamanensis "rare species", generally not in cultivation.

P. caespitosa "strongly clumping, trunkless, edible date palm".

P. canariensis "abundant groundwater, edible but mostly unpalatable, grows slowly under drought conditions".

P. dactylifera "oases, along rivers and streams or anywhere water is avail in desert areas, suckers with age, trunks occasionally branch, there are now hundreds if not thousands of varieties; date palm does not fruit well in humid climates no matter how much heat is applied during summer; however, two cultivars now do indeed produce well in such regions: P. dactylifera Medjool and P.dactylifera Zahedii; hardy to cold especially in dry climates where it is adaptable to zone 7. Because of its long association with deserts, the date palm is thought to have water requirements similar to that of cactus. Nothing could be further from the truth...always found near groundwater and while drought tolerant with age, it languishes and even dies under true drought conditions; needs full sun from youth to age."

P. loureiri "variable, in full sun it's short, slow growing, clustering with short blue leaves, but as undergrowth in moist partially shady areas it grows taller with fewer clustering, leaflets pure green". 2 varieties: P. loureiri var. loureiri and P. loureiri var. humilis. unusual hardiness to cold mid-20s F zones 8-11, not fast grower."

P. paludosa "grows landward of mangrove forests in swampy areas that are periodically invaded by salt water; clustering, needs warmth year round."

P. pusilla "monsoonal lowlands and drier ridges in Ceylon, solitary trunk but clustering not rare, wicker patterned trunks attractive, eminently worth of cultivation, but only zone 10/11".

P. reclinata, "grows along rivers and streams, seasonally flooded savannas and even rocky mountainsides, common names Senegal date palm and African wild date palm, clustering, freely suckering, trunks never straight, fruit mostly unpalatable, zones 10/11"

P. roebelenii "along rivers in areas that are periodically flooded, clustering in the wild, but solitary stems in cultivation, hardy for a tropical species withstanding temps slightly below freezing in zones 10/11, thirsty, needs constant and adequate moisture". Known as pygmy date palm.

P. rupicola, "inhabitant of rocks, wet or dry areas, solitary trunk, most cold tender species marginal in 10a".

P. sylvestris "grows in monsoonal plains, solitary trunked, resembles P. canariensis but grows faster, leaf color gray to bluish green, 9b to 11".

P. theophrasti "similar to P. dactylifera and may be a form of it; however, more clustering, smaller stature, shorter and more bristly leaves. Similar to P.dactylifera in needs".

Going to go find some more edible dates!

...and will water my old CDIP today!

Barb

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:43 am

here is the archive list from "rarepalmseeds.com"

Phoenix acaulis Dwarf Date Palm
Phoenix canariensis Canary Island Date Palm
Phoenix dactylifera Date Palm
Phoenix iberica
Phoenix loureiri var. humilis Mountain Date Palm
Phoenix loureiri var. loureiri
Phoenix loureiroi var. humilis (Kashmir) Kashmir Mountain Date Palm
Phoenix loureiroi var. humilis (Khyber)
Phoenix loureiroi var. pedunculata Mountain Date Palm
Phoenix paludosa Mangrove Date Palm
Phoenix pusilla Ceylon Date Palm
Phoenix reclinata Senegal Date Palm
Phoenix reclinata (Hybrid) Date Palm
Phoenix roebelenii Pygmy Date Palm
Phoenix roebelenii (Mekong) Wild Pygmy Date Palm
Phoenix roebelenii (Variegated) Variegated Pygmy Date Palm
Phoenix rupicola Cliff Date Palm
Phoenix sylvestris Silver Date Palm
Phoenix sylvestris (Robusta) Robust Silver Date Palm
Phoenix sylvestris (Round Seed)
Phoenix theophrastii Cretan Date Palm

damir · Post by **damir** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:48 pm

cold hardest of all phoenix palms is phoenix theophrasti "golkoy". turkish date. not true date, maybe edible.

here is the pic

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/40 ... olkoy.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/62 ... arita.jpg/

http://www.fousdepalmiers.fr/html/forum ... 6&start=15

here some forum in french..

damir · Post by **damir** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:55 pm

also here some great shots of theo palm. also one hot chick at the beach

http://forum.palmi.bg/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=142

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:25 pm

Great pics of a great palm damir.
Good links too.
That last photo reminds me of Erik's photo of "coconuts" at the beach...

Had a surprise today while shopping for Deglet Noor dates.
Recognized the package...so I've already got two that germinated

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/southslope/6757076245/" title="DSC05313 by edible_plum, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7027/6757 ... 534c_z.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="DSC05313"></a>

Only Medjool and Deglet Noor available here.
Must be your proximity to N.Africa/Middle East/Greece that allows Poland to stock a better variety than we have.

Since the P.theophrastii has "more bristly leaves" than most Phoenix...dangerous at repotting time.

Barb

DesertZone · Post by **DesertZone** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:22 pm

damir wrote:also here some great shots of theo palm. also one hot chick at the beach

http://forum.palmi.bg/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=142

Very nice palms.

Cameron_z6a_N.S. · Post by **Cameron_z6a_N.S.** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:18 am

Interesting story, Damir. Do you know if the seedlings were covered with snow during the winter? If not, then you should try to get one!!

P. theophrastii "Golkoy" would definitely be one of the hardiest. Apparently you can eat the fruit, but it is not very plentiful or sweet.

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:35 am

DesertZone wrote:
damir wrote:also here some great shots of theo palm. also one hot chick at the beach

http://forum.palmi.bg/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=142
Very nice palms.

What ones you talkin about?

lol

Damir, I suggest you get some theophratsii seeds and give em a try....

damir · Post by **damir** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:52 am

barb, dates are very easy to germinate. in less than a month,you'll have plenty od dacty palms.
cameron,last year there was some snow,so it must been covered with it. i had one theophrastii about 3 years old, but i send it away to one friend to our coast.
canadianplant, maybe i'll try with golkoy phoenix,but i think that there is no much chance that i have it with trunk, with some passive protection,like i have my trachy palms (just cover it with some box in very low temps, when it drops below -10C). maybe with the heating in winter... but... cidp is much nicer to me.

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:14 am

THis is the way I see it.

CIDP, no matter the strain will not be hardier then 8B. You can get away with them in colder zones (maybe in 7a), with some protection, quite like the area they are planted , in regards to the palms in question here. Once they get so big, the wont have the ground, snow and wall to protect it, and it will more then likely decline (unless climate change picks up, never know

).

SInce your rated zone 7a, the theophratsii (rated zone 7), would have a much, much better chance of surviving then the CIDP, and still get the same look (keep in mind, if your zone is correct, and the hardiness of the P Theophratsii is correct, you shouldnt have any problem for the most part). THen again, why not try both? LOL

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:06 am

barb, dates are very easy to germinate. in less than a month,you'll have plenty od dacty palms

You're not kidding, damir!

The Deglet Noor seedlings are so fast, already 3 inches tall after a few weeks.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/southslope/6796732015/" title="DSC05358 by edible_plum, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7008/6796 ... 8a6b_z.jpg" width="480" height="640" alt="DSC05358"></a>

As to variability between my slower to grow "Medjools", this photo is great comparing the two trees:

http://www.datepalm.com/dacdiff.html

I love Phoenix trees!!!!

Cameron_z6a_N.S. · Post by **Cameron_z6a_N.S.** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:35 pm

Great comparison shots, Barb!

Damir, is your area being affected by the cold snap? If the Phoenix survive THIS, then you should definitely make sure to dig one up for yourself

damir · Post by **damir** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:47 am

Cameron_z6a_N.S. wrote:Great comparison shots, Barb!

Damir, is your area being affected by the cold snap? If the Phoenix survive THIS, then you should definitely make sure to dig one up for yourself

yes, but not much as other parts of europe like ukraine -33 C,bulgaria,serbia southern parts about -30,bosnia -30,poland... even turkey is under snow and cold. but it can be ugly. i've seen that in monday here might be -20!!

i doubt that this dates will survive this... and it could been alive if the owner let me dig it up when i was there few days ago, and asked for it.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:49 am

could been alive if the owner let me dig it up when i was there few days ago, and asked for it. icon_evil.gif

I'd go back and cover it up with at least a couple of boxes.

PalmsNorth.com

Phoenix ?? cold hardy in zone 7a

Phoenix ?? cold hardy in zone 7a

Phoenix Palm Family

Phoenix