new Cocos nucifera

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:43 am

Look at what followed me home from HD yesterday

<img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5201/536 ... bfde26.jpg" width="375" height="500" alt="DSC04352" />

These are notorious for dying indoors, so will need more humidity to keep it happy.
Light is the big issue, so I suspended the red/blue LCD grow lights from the ceiling.
Pale green leaves, so it got some epsom salts, also a bit of K.
Today it'll get a good feed of palm fertilizer.

<img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5129/536 ... fcf84d.jpg" width="375" height="500" alt="DSC04355" />

While misting the undersides, noticed mealybugs.

Easy fix, with the leaf segments undivided for now.

The clerk said: "We're getting a new palm shipment in next week."

Barb

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:12 pm

Keep us updated!
I have only tried Cocos once before and failed, but of course I'll try again someday.
It sure seems to me that your system ought to work. --Erik

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:29 am

Barb, I used to sell something similar to that led system at the pet store, except its for salt water tanks and its to induce natural growth for coral. I never heard anything bad about them, and they apperantly work well for corals. How do they seem to be doing to plants??

Barb I think you should take some pics of all the plants you have........ I have a feeling weve only seen bits and pieces

Your home depot sells way better stuff then mine. The best thing ive seen there was a bamboo palm, that was flowering. They also had bamboo advertised in their flyer, only to have 4 apperantly shipped in for the sale, and then NOT have any at all. The only answer i got was " the stock guys messed up and said we had some".

Who wants to bet barb comes home next week with a truck load of palms ( especialy if they brought in sabals or needles )

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:34 am

I goofed and said LCD lights...they're called LED? had forgotten that.
Liquid crystal display is on computers and telephones and TV's???
and Light emitting diode is the red/blue light thingy?

...you know you're getting old when acronyms confuse...
http://www.acronymfinder.com/

Anyway, I have no idea if it'll work...used it simply because my grow lights on the Foxtails are suspended over lawn chairs, way too low for the Cocos.
Trying it with a C.nucifera is a real stretch too, as I've heard Cocos usually croak even in an atrium.

HD is learning there are people out there that want "different" stuff.
The clerk said "there's a guarantee on it".
Told her they're crazy to offer that, as most people haven't got a clue of cultural requirements and don't even bother to look up on the internet what the palm is exposed to in habitat.
She laughed and said she'd recommend killing the guarantee.

You just might win that bet...glad we don't have a truck anymore...sort of

Barb

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:50 am

Yup right on the money barb. IT happens, my dad doesnt know what a harddrive is....... yet he can tell me the difference between the lcd, LED, PLasma and tube tvs.....

LCD is like you said liquid rystal display, like a digital wrist watch... they now have LED tvs, that are similar to the jumbotron tvs in staduims, millions of tiny lights to pixilate the image on the screen, bit by bit......

What kind of lighting panel is it? is it specificaly made for plant or animal growth, or is it one of thos ones you use for SAD ? ( I know these one put out full sunlight specrum ( i read pamphelet my sister got with hers)

Theres someone here that grows coconut, there is a thread for it..... Cant remember much beyond that LOL

I really hope the home depot here wakes up. Then again if there isnt a maket here, there isnt a market but as far as i seen they arent even trying. Or the staff doesnt know what bamboo looks like

( I AM looking for a job i should apply there LOL)

tropicman · Post by **tropicman** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:37 am

Aloha UUUU Aloha UUUU,and it followed you home!!!!!
I've heard of animals following a person home,but a plant!And a coconut too!!!!!
Well at least you didn't say it washed up into the yard!!!LOL
Keep some air movement on it,that will help with its growth,my plants always look better with air movement.
Won't be long you'll be outside with a beach umbrella,sun glasses and wearing a bikini!!!LOL

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:37 am

Oh heck...thought a hard drive was a palm nursery 40 miles up a dusty road.

I bought the lighting panel at a community fair, plain box, no logo, no manufacturer name.
The display had one plugged in and set up 4 inches above a flat of newly-germinated seedlings (vegetables...yawn!)

I figured it might work on palm seeds that need light to germinate.
At about 1 foot square, it's too darn small for general use.

Barb

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:40 am

Don, postings crossed AGAIN

Mahalo nui loa to you.

washed up into the yard!

Good one for next time.

Air movement...OK (where is that *&%$# fan from summer?) oops, it's in the other building, keeping those plants aired.

Barb

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:41 am

I did the same thing with my aerogarden. The herb pack was soon "fruittrees palms and hanana" pack LOL

You should have problems with that ... jsut keep that baby humid and warm

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:43 am

hanana?

Where is that spellcheck I was going to send you?

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:48 am

LOL

I just need to read over my posts....

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:51 am

Ya know barb i was thinking.... You could program the lights, play some pink floyd... lay underneeth and go to space!!!!

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:03 am

You must be snowed in today

igor.glukhovtsev · Post by **igor.glukhovtsev** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:16 am

I would to follow up but I can't . Too complicated for Russian speaking fellow...

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:21 am

Igor

me too!

Barb

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:22 am

igor, please for your sake never take my english as proper english LOL.

igor.glukhovtsev · Post by **igor.glukhovtsev** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:35 am

Oh, Barb! I told you earlier you are the BEST! Jesse, I like your disorderly posting! It's so FUNNY! Don't worry! Every time I'm reading your posts I either laughing or LAUGHING! It's so really funny! It makes me stronger in following the bright English! I don't care if it's the Canadian or the American one. I just have a fun! That is why I love you, guys!

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:45 am

How nice, Igor !

Without humour, life's not worth living

I see some humour in everything...not a good thing sometimes.

Barb

igor.glukhovtsev · Post by **igor.glukhovtsev** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:01 pm

Barb! I know you know... Every post you make I hearty laugh! Nothing more. I have no words expressing my admiration to every post you make. Jesse, sorry, you have too many things to announce! I like your youthful ardour! Never mind your syllable. Everything is so clear! Even for me the bloody Russian guy! I've might tell something wrong... Sorry! I just have FUN!

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:09 pm

Jesse's used to getting it from us

Looking forward to reading how your winter's going so far, Igor...over in Weather.

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:36 pm

Who here has succeeded in growing Cocos?
Off the top of my head, I can only think of Don and Mark.

tropicman · Post by **tropicman** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:28 pm

OMG, succeeded Erik,your might be a head of yourself there,4 to 5 years is lucky,8 to 10 yrs getting close to success,if I get a flower and fruit,I would say succeeded!!!!!
I have 2 in the greenhouse,the green malayan ,now standing there with fired leaves,golden malayan right next to it looks great,why the difference I don't know,because beside the green one is next to a giant white bird and a triangle palm,both look excellent,I let the temp,drop to 40* for a couple hours before I lit the propane heater,thinking I might get them to be a little hardier,if I exposed them to a little cool weather,a little at at time,well that didn't work out the way I wanted it too!

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:39 pm

Don, can you post some pictures?

There usually isn't a huge temperature difference between varieties within palm species.
But one will always beat the rest.

Could it even be something like the propane venting towards the green malayan's leaves, or a draft on its roots.
Or heaven forbid, cold moisture dripping from the ceiling onto it...gotta be something.

But a BoP can handle considerable chill in the winter, surprisingly.
My 3 Triangles haven't ever seen cold, they just fry in the sun.

A pic or two would help us understand the layout/proximity, etc.

Barb

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:41 pm

Barb is a cool lady-I think she owns this forum
and teaches spelling to aliens.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:55 pm

I must still owe Jim money

Get back in the wagon, mister!

Hey Don, this "mg" site talks about planting the green malay cocos, saying it's shorter and fatter than the very tall golden.
So maybe being closer to the ground in the GH is colder?
Long shot, probably but pics....pics...

here's the site. http://mgonline.com/articles/coconut.aspx

Barb

Okanagan desert-palms · Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:37 pm

Barb nice Cocconut. With that led lighting system and proper humidity that is going to be one happy palm. I have two led`s 90 watt ea.I use for my small palms,plants indoors. They give off the equivalent power of a 400 watt Metal halide bulb.These ones I use cover 12 sq. ft. That system of your looks to be 4 times a big as what I have. Does it say how many watts input it is?

http://bcledlights.com/index.php?main_p ... ucts_id=87

John

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:47 pm

Best part is, they are very easy on the hydro

*** Is now thinking about getting a coconut form the grocery store to try to grow it

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:51 pm

system of your looks to be 4 times a big as what I have. Does it say how many watts input it is?

Nope, it's tiny, just 1 foot square.
The little "lamps" are the size of a peanut (yup...a peanut).

I've looked everywhere on the sides, back...no indication of wattage.
Let's put it this way...if I were relying on this thing to light the hall at night, I'd never find the bathroom.

It only looks really bright because I was aiming the camera up into it.

Don, here's an excerpt for Cocos nucifera from my "Encyclopedia of Cultivated Palms" (Riffle/Craft):
"The palm is almost intolerant of cold and is adaptable only to zones 10b and 11.
Many cultivated forms exist, several of which are readily available (the authors don't live in Canada!). Cocos nucifera "Tall Jamaican"...one of the tallest growing and reportedly the MOST TENDER TO COLD, is very susceptible to lethal yellowing (LY) disease, as is C. nucifera "panama tall". Three varieties are seemingly much less susceptible to LY: C. nucifera "green malayan dwarf" to 60 ft high with deep green leaves, C. nucifera "golden malayan dwarf", also to 60 feet high but with beautiful yellow-green leaves, dazzling golden fruit, and golden to almost orange petioles and rachies; and the outstandingly spectacular C. nucifera "maypan", tall growing and robust with leaves that are longer and broader than those of the type."

Could your green form have an advanced stage of LY?

Barb

EDIT: oh, and that MG site link said to put 50 pounds of manure in the planting hole. Fifty? Pounds?
Sheesh, maybe just tie the horse to the palm tree and leave it there!

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:13 pm

Barb,
that is our fantasy: horses and coconuts!

As for Cocos varities, there are indeed many. My Belizean buddies debate the merits of them in ways that make our Trachy nuts seem mild.

Here is a photo of an older fellow I know posed by his favorite variety. He likes it as it matures fast and at a height where he can harvest without climbing like he had to do as a boy. He planted this in 2001.

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/LP ... site"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_r-MvN4jW1sE/TQw8C ... CT0030.JPG" height="640" width="480" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/terdalfarm/ ... te">Belize December 2010</a></td></tr></table>

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:12 pm

Horses and coconuts...a surefire way to get 50 pounds of manure onto it.

Great photo, Erik.
If only we could show a photo like that with our 10 year old palms...

Their merits include A to Z from thatch and wood to food to utensils, to oil, etc.
Plus they often bloom with only 3 feet of clear trunk, which is young in the palm world.

Cocos palms make everything except pizza.

Barb

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:32 am

ok seriously... brain storm ( i cok all the time, im half ukranian.... if i cant cook id be disowned)

You can make a coconut milk sauce, and use some carribean flavoured chicken, some mango..........

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:50 am

John,
I think mine must be the 45 watt version from your link.
http://bcledlights.com/index.php?main_p ... ucts_id=99
Hope it's not 400 watts...hydro bill

Barb

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:03 am

A few days grow is showing:

<img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5204/537 ... e38e24.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="DSC04360" />

Gave it palm special fertilizer 12-4-12.
This Australian nursery links recommends 8-1-16 for Cocos.
Way off the 3/1/3 or 4/1/4 ratio now recommended for palms! Cocos seems to require huge K amounts, likely to prevent LY?

http://www.nurseriesonline.com.au/Artic ... ifera.html

Had given it a small amount of epsom salts and K when I brought it home.
Should I add more K?

Barb

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:20 am

Barb,
nice link.
I should mention that in the photo I shared above, my friend used a back hoe to dig a hole and he filled it with "black soil." He mulched with beach sand so it appears as if it is growing right on the beach. He told me which dwarf variety it was but I cannot remember.

I think my Cocos died from too much summer heat and not enough humidity. I did not use the mister system under the patio "Sun shade" back then. That helps. (Plus it helps my mood to start thinking about "summer protection" already!)
As for K, I wouldn't know. I assume it can't hurt as too much will just get washed out, but that is ignorance speaking.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:35 am

I've seen a reference to digging a big hole and filling it with black soil, like your friend did.
Also that previous reference to 50 pounds of rotted manure in the hole

They do need lots of humidity, considering their habitat everywhere...Hawaii for example.
But sandy soils generally leach K really fast, probably why these guys need heavy amendments.

Found this Cocos fertilizer recommendation, page 3, (for coconut commercial crop)
Most interesting is the reference to 14th leaf, critical bearing stage:

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cac ... doWx_SZgfQ

With mine now pushing leaf #5, I hope it gets to #14.

Barb

Okanagan desert-palms · Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:55 am

I had a Cocconut two years ago and it also croaked. My thoughts are that the roots got to hot in the smaller 3 gal. pot it was in. The temps were near or above 100f-39c for a good portion of the summer. Since Cocos nucifera grows where temps rarely get over 94f-34c the roots were cooked and thus the decline. If I ever get another I would plant it in the ground for the summer with the pot to keep roots cooler. Barb I think the palm fertilizer you already have should be good enough for your coconut. It should have all the micro nutrients in there now.

John

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:15 am

plant it in the ground for the summer with the pot to keep roots cooler

You may be onto something there, John.
I'll do that for sure this summer.

The K thingy still confuses me...plus another document (can't find it now

) states they require soil chloride.

Too bad yours didn't make it John.
But HD is getting a new shipment of palms within a few days...there's sure to be a Cocos among them

Barb

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:52 am

John is referring to "pot planting", right? I did that for a few palms this past summer, most notably a small Roystonea regia. It seemed to work well. (Remember: my palm garden bakes in Summer!). \
That with the mister system might work for Cocos as well.
(Can y'all tell I'm eager to talk summer protection methods by now?

)

tropicman · Post by **tropicman** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:21 pm

Barb,thanks for the link
I'm assuming these are ground planted coconuts and not in containers,but from my readings,they need a small of amount of manganese as well as magnesium so try to find that in your fertilizer if at all possible.
I believe a lot of palm growers down south by the Carl pool palm fertilizer,it is not available here yet,but I do get a fertilizer from fertilome that has all the necessary nutrients in it ,as it is called palm and evergreen fertilizer.
Humidity is a really key factor in growing them,my greenhouses are 60% or more,of course it helps that I have a pond in mine with fish in it,and when I clean the pond filters I take that and add it right in to my palm containers to help feed the palms,best fertilizer you can get!

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:10 pm

Erik, yes.

Don, yup, they're talking about commercial Coconut plantations...otherwise, there'd be no research on Cocos just for "us gardeners"

Interesting how much Cocos takes out of the ground, huh?
I think this research benefits us by learning nutrient requirements for max growth (especially at my age

)

The way your palms (and other stuff) grows, I wouldn't change a thing!

Oh yes my palm special fert is fine, especially with chelated ingredients and trace, but it sounds like Cocos has an insatiable appetite for Potash.
In that case I think it's critical to get the pH bang on, or else nutrients are unavailable to the plant (although abundant), as can easily happen outdoors too when planted.

<img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4051/421 ... 198bc9.jpg" width="375" height="500" alt="DSC03169" />

Agree that your fish pond "scrapings" are the best by far for palms!
Do you count your fish?

Sounds like your humidity is perfect...to raise mine today, I washed a heavy winter coat and hung it up in the basement beside the palm, to drip dry

Barb