Introduction & Trachy Help

spacemd · Post by **spacemd** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:35 am

Hello everyone! My name is Matt and I stumbled on this forum a few months ago when I was researching cold hardy plants for my landscaping. I live in the Tri-City area of Michigan (Bay City, Saginaw, Midland) ~zone 5b, 6 if we're lucky.

I figured I would start out with a Trachy and see how it goes considering I know almost nothing about growing palms. I ordered one off eBay in a three gallon pot and It arrived in fairly good condition for being in a box on truck for four days. I re-potted it in a 7 or 8 gallon pot and using miracle grow palm and cactus soil.

It spent the summer on my deck if almost full sun and looked to be doing well, but never got as green as some of the pictures I've seen on here. A few weeks back it lost a frond and now it looks like i'm going to lose two more

. I noticed some white spots on the fronds and thought it may be a fungus of sorts so I got some liquid copper and treated it. It cleared up in a week but the plant still looks like its going downhill. I was looking at it last night and saw that the white spots are coming back, thats when I decided to ask for help!

Here's some pictures, any help or advice you can give would be greatly appreciated.

<a href="http://spacestudios.net/images/palm1.jpg" target="_new"><img src="http://spacestudios.net/images/palm1.jpg" hight="384" width="512">
<a href="http://spacestudios.net/images/palm2.jpg" target="_new"><img src="http://spacestudios.net/images/palm2.jpg" hight="384" width="512">
<a href="http://spacestudios.net/images/palm3.jpg" target="_new"><img src="http://spacestudios.net/images/palm3.jpg" hight="384" width="512">
<a href="http://spacestudios.net/images/palm4.jpg" target="_new"><img src="http://spacestudios.net/images/palm4.jpg" hight="384" width="512">
<a href="http://spacestudios.net/images/palm5.jpg" target="_new"><img src="http://spacestudios.net/images/palm5.jpg" hight="384" width="512">

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:22 pm

Welcome!

It looks just fine to me,will you be planting out next year?

ScottyON · Post by **ScottyON** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:53 pm

Trachy's suck for me indoors!! We'll pretty much I suck at all indoor plants. That's how mine looked at the end of the winter after spending all winter in the house..

spacemd · Post by **spacemd** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:28 pm

Thanks for the replies!

Jim:
I do plan on putting it in the ground at some point next year, for now it will stay warm inside by the windows. Any thoughts on the white spots? I think i'll give it another treatment of liquid copper because it seemed to help last time. I was also thinking of getting fertilizer in hopes it would green it back up, but i have no clue what kind to get.

Scotty:
I don't expect much indoors either I don't think they get enough light.

ScottyON · Post by **ScottyON** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:23 pm

I heard that the wite spots are some bug. I had them on my pindo.. They wipe off with a wet rag. It sucks when you have a lot of them! There must be some sort of thing you can treat it with.

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:25 pm

You can get something called " safers soap". ITs an insecticide but not harsh. Or put a small drop of dish soap in a spray bottle of water and spray the plant once a week or 2. You should be misting it a bit inside with water anyways to keep the dust off the fronds.

Peace

Okanagan desert-palms · Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:20 pm

It looks pefectly fine to me as other members have stated. Trachycarpus fortunei at that size do not like being in a warm house for the winter. The lower fronds will start turning black from being to warm,with dry air. I tried searching PN for a previous post about this very same subject with pics.No luck.Anybody else remember the topic.Jan 2008/2009?

John

BILL MA · Post by **BILL MA** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:12 pm

The white things on your palm is called false scale. Look it up, they can be killed with a mild coffee solution and a sponge. Take care of this before it goes inside or it will be a pain for you later.

Bill

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:21 am

Trachies hate the temps at which we humans are comfortable in winter in a warm dry house.
An unused room, bright if possible, would be better than "living room temps".

Mine survived in the house for 30+ years, spending only summers outside on the patio, until it was planted last year.
Daily misting helps too.

The white dots show up as blue dots on my pic ?!?

BTW bottom leaf going yellow happens every year to one or two leaves as the palm grows.
Same as a fir or pine tree shedding red needles annually, generally in Fall.

Unless they're all going yellow (and they don't appear to be), looks natural to me.
Or a top frond going yellow...that's bad news.

Looking forward to more pictures.
Barb

spacemd · Post by **spacemd** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:35 am

Thanks again for the advice, I'm starting to feel less worried. Now that I know what the white dots are i can do some better searches to find out more. Would it be better to keep him in a cooler place like a basement or garage? Either case I would have to get some artificial lighting setup.

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:13 pm

Welcome, Matt!
I stumbled upon this forum a year ago and have received great advice and encouragement.
My wife ("W" here) is from Michigan, and her parents live in Manistee. A little easier for plants than where you are but they still have not tried palms

As for Trachycarpus, you will get great advice on this forum as it is a favourite. Barb knows much more than I, who have managed to kill a few even down here in Oklahoma!
I grow small ones in pots that I bring in for the winter. I keep them by a south-facing window in an unheated room (converted garage we jokingly call the "ballroom" in our old double-wide

)
There are also lights on timers. The coldest it gets in there is about 40 oF in winter. It seems to work for Trachy palms.
--Erik

gpenny · Post by **gpenny** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 3:45 am

I may get raked over the coals for this but I am scared of putting copper on plants for treatment. I know many palm growers use it as treatment and it may work ok at the right concentration. I don't use it because as a Fisheries Biologist we used it for years to kill plants! Copper is the primary ingredient in many algaecides and other aquatic herbicides. I would use a fungicide that doesn't contain it just to be safe.

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 3:50 am

Thanks, Penny.
What fungicides (if any) do you recommend for plants in general/palms in particular? --Erik

JackLord · Post by **JackLord** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:37 am

spacemd wrote:Thanks again for the advice, I'm starting to feel less worried. Now that I know what the white dots are i can do some better searches to find out more. Would it be better to keep him in a cooler place like a basement or garage? Either case I would have to get some artificial lighting setup.

Good question.

I am going to overwinter a Pindo in my basement with some plant lights as the sun porch is booked solid with my citrus grove. I am not going to use an elaborate setup, but if you are ambitious, the sky is the limit and you can certainly devise a setup that will keep it happy. Gardenweb has an entire section devoted to indoor lighting. Some plants, such as bananas, actually do fine without any lighting and go dormant.

I would emphasize what was said about Trachys and cool temps- they love it. So much so that now is when my outdoor ones do their best. I do not cover them up until November and I take my time. Of course, its a bit warmer down here than in Michigan.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:00 am

Agree with gpenny about copper. Scary stuff for people's exposure too.
Good ole Hydrogen Peroxide is a lot safer, but effectiveness might be lower too.

Updated pic of Trachy (my pride and joy), loving Oct's cooler temps.
This is the poor duck that was in a pot for 30+ years till last year.

Now it's planted against East side of house (morning sun only), protected from blistering afternoon heat and winds (northwest winter winds are the real killers, even tho' it hates summer windstorms too).

The carpenter is going on vacation soon so we have to get the palm hut reinstalled soon...darn, too early but I'll leave the door open.
(Didn't turn the flash off...looks kinda pale in this shot).

A new frond just opened, with two more spears pushing.

Will look forward to seeing your "planting spot" for next spring.
Barb

gpenny · Post by **gpenny** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:49 am

Erik
I use Bayleton (systemic fungicide) and Daconil(contact fungicide) or a combo of the two on ornamentals. I have never had to use on palms but see no restrictions on doing so.

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Sun Oct 10, 2010 7:28 pm

Penny,
thanks. I'll look for those.
The only fungicide I have on hand besides the copper is chlorothanil (sp?).
So, it sounds like you do not need fungicide on your palms.

--Erik

BILL MA · Post by **BILL MA** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 6:05 am

I'm not a huge fan of copper either. I used a little bit last year on my washies after they saw to much cold. I'd say only use it if you have a real rot problem or a good potential for one. Copper as Penny said can poison and out right kill palms fairly quickly if over used.

Barb,
Your trachy is ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL!!! It looks so happy to be free

Bill

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 6:54 am

BILL MA wrote:
Barb,
Your trachy is ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL!!! It looks so happy to be free

Bill

Totally agree!

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:42 am

Thanks guys.

Will just briefly DERAIL this thread. Gotta show you 2 pics, leaves are getting more "circular".

Old bottom leaf: 180 degree (half circle)

Now a pic of newer leaf: looks like about 300 degrees?

How significant would it be if my old Trachy's new leaves were a full circle?
Can you tell I'm still mourning my Licuala RIP

Barb

BILL MA · Post by **BILL MA** » Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:16 pm

Lady bugs are a nice addition to palms since they eat so much of the nasty palm bugs, I almost missed it

Nice 300 degree leaf! That palm has exploded with growth this year Barb!

Bill

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:47 pm

Bill,

That 300 degree leaf blew me away...maybe I'll find out what true type of Trachy it is...being 30+ years old.
Doubt it ever had a label.

Do you think that leaf "degrees" would help narrow it down beyond "just another Trachy"?

Barb

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:22 pm

I think it's Fortunei,I have a Waggie that was putting out 360's

I think it's backed off that a little-will have to check on that tomorow-

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:27 pm

360 leaves are gorgeous.
What was that Trachy with solid 360 leaves? was it the Stone Gate palm? or is it just Waggies?

I never paid much attention to this before, but it'll be interesting to make note of palms' leaf "degrees".

BILL MA · Post by **BILL MA** » Sat Oct 16, 2010 6:52 am

In not sure about why the leaves grow like that but one of my in ground trachys put out a 360 degree leaf this year. It was cool, I could check it out from my window!

I think the 360 degree trachy is a winsan but I'm not 100%. That's a question for Jim or Garry they know far more about that stuff then I do.

Bill

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Oct 16, 2010 7:56 am

"winsan", that rings a bell re 360 degree leaves.

one of my in ground trachys put out a 360 degree leaf

very cool, maybe all its new fronds will be 360s.

Barb

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:22 am

POOP...there goes my theory...

round leaves owing to phenotypic plasticity and that this "trait" ist no trait at all

From here:
http://www.exoten-forum.de/vb/showthrea ... 9?p=344357

By the way, what happened to Matt...the guy that started this post?

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Sat Oct 16, 2010 9:44 am

I think Arnold has some issues with words

Whatever you want to call it,some Trachys put out 360* leaves.

I have only seen this in Waggies and Fortunei(so far),I also don't
ever recall Garry saying this(Winsan) is a different palm from Fortunei
with repeatable traits.

Garry has been so kind to distribute seeds from areas he is lucky enough to have access too!

It could be argued that all these Trachys(excluding Latisectus and Martianus)are part of the
"Fortunei group"

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Oct 16, 2010 10:40 am

some issues

yup, that's for sure...

You guys have all known about this 360 leaf thingy for ages; I didn't have a clue (probably still don't)

Garry has been so kind to distribute seeds from areas he is lucky enough to have access to!

That's for sure...THAT'S OUR GARRY? didn't realize that.
Certainly glad to have his experience aboard!

I must've been born under a rock

Barb

BILL MA · Post by **BILL MA** » Sat Oct 16, 2010 4:51 pm

Barb, that trachy only put out one 360 degree that I know of I'll take a closer look and a picture once the bananas crap out.

Bill

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Oct 16, 2010 5:01 pm

once the bananas crap out.

Can't find the trachy behind the nanas?

BILL MA · Post by **BILL MA** » Sat Oct 16, 2010 5:11 pm

Yeah, the banana leaves are all over the top of it. Very poor placement on my part, next year I'll be replacing them with yellow bananas (lasiocarpa) they stay under seven feet and shouldn't interfere. I kind of want to cut them now but I can't do it

I'll be able to squeeze the ladder in there when they fry for a closer look.

Bill

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Oct 16, 2010 6:49 pm

Am I sensing that your nanas now take second place to some very new Waggies and Trachies

That'd be me too!

Or just because the wind knocked them half down?

PalmsNorth.com

Introduction & Trachy Help

Introduction & Trachy Help

Welcome aboard, Matt.