Update on trunk cut Trachys

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:21 pm

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:34 pm

Astonishing!
If I had seen this 14 months ago, I bet I'd still have my Washies.
If you haven't yet, please share this on EPS. The whole palm world needs to know about this potential to save "dead" palms.
--Erik

ScottyON · Post by **ScottyON** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:31 pm

Nice job Jim! You have a lot of patience!! It pays off in the long run though, eh! Most people would have pronounced them dead long ago.. Nice to see they are coming back nicely!

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:14 pm

The whole palm world needs to know about this potential to save "dead" palms.

Yes, I agree.

Well done, Doctor Jim!

ROBRETI · Post by **ROBRETI** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 7:07 pm

Congrats, Jim! Great job, all my respects to you; this was a lesson to all of us.
Rob

Paul Ont · Post by **Paul Ont** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:55 am

Interesting that they recovered so well. I wonder if they would have recovered without intervention? Probably not, but someone (maybe me) should really test to see if they can...

mnpalms · Post by **mnpalms** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 4:11 am

Simply awesome Jim, you the man! I'll be interested to see how these trachies develop over time. How will they look next year? Short but fat/stubby trunks? Your findings are very important to the palm community no doubt. A few more years of experimentation, you should be able to re-write the "Palms won't grow here" book. Seriously. Awesome job man!

mnpalms · Post by **mnpalms** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 4:13 am

Jim- I almost forgot, I'd love to see pics of your itinerans next time you get the chance to post pics. I'm thinking about putting mine in the ground tomorrow, or at least the one which will be in the most shaded area anyway. Can't wait to see what they do...

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:50 am

Thanks for the kind words and encouragement everyone!

Paul
I can say for sure(without a doubt)they would not have come back.
These palms were rotted very close to termination,a few of them did not come back.
In the case of the 2 largest ones,we are talking about over a foot of rotted trunk
for the spear to have to overcome,the warm weather(you would think would help)
was increasing the spread of the rot at to fast a pace to outgrow,opening up the
crowns halted that immediately and got the spears what they desperately needed light /air.

Kory
It's pretty clear looking at the growth so far(which is not really visible in the pics)
that by no later than next year,you won't even be able to tell they were cut!:lol:

My guess is these will recover fully and at least put out as many leaves as last year.
It's hard to tell but there are petioles (without leaves on them)that have also come out
which puts their "leaf" total at 3-4,so they are keeping pace with all the ones that weren't trunk cut-
good news as this was my main concern with these,after they started to grow.

I will post some pics of the Bananas,Brugs,etc on another thread.

O.K.
I will just do it here since the people I was going to show them to have posted here

This is the Itinerans in the sunnier spot Kory-

<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -10009.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -10009.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Shadier(area) Itinerans

<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -10003.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -10003.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

The Brugmansias-a few of the leaves are 16"long and 10" across!

didn't know they got that big-they are in a similar spot to where the Castors grew

<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -10007.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -10007.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -10006.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -10006.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

My 2 Thai black banana plants-these were only 2-3" when I planted them,
they are really starting to blast off now! I wouldn't be surprised if they are the fastest this year but
the Itinerans should have something to say about that.

<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -10005.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -10005.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -10004.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -10004.jpg"
border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Abyssinian has put out 5 new leaves already and is seriously moving now

<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -10010.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -10010.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Thai giant(Colocasia)these can grow to 8' in one season from this size-
this is another that is really moving in the warm sticky weather.
Also got a Alocaia Borneo giant(same size),not pictured.

<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -10011.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -10011.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

G.manicata-establishing itself.

<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -10016.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -10016.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Castor beans are ahead of last year

<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -10018.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -10018.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Another picture of Brugs and Siam ruby starting to move -finally!

<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... nsh006.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... nsh006.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Thanks for looking

mnpalms · Post by **mnpalms** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:18 pm

Looks great Jim! Thanks for posting the itinerans pics. It's hard to tell in the pics, which of them seem like they have grown the fastest? The shade or sun? I'm going to get mine in the ground tomorrow and I'm still debating exactly where I'll place them. Like you I was planning on one being in a sunnier spot and the other more shaded. If these are truly the "gigantea" (sp?) ones I've read about they like to be under the canopy in tall forests. I think mine are happy enough in pots and recovered from shipping that it will be safe to plant them in ground now.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:31 pm

Jim's outstanding success with palm surgery gave me the confidence to try it on my dead/dying Butia capitata and P. roebellenii.

The Jelly Palm's spear pulled as soon as I began cutting.
Seems the 3% peroxide treatments weren't applied often enough.
Lots of rot the further I cut, and then it stank to high heaven at the bottom! Yuk.
Am really sad to lose this one.

Next, the 3 trunked P. roebellenii:
One spear pulled, the others I started cutting away. Nothin alive here.

One more pic of each in better days.
Jelly:

P.roebellenii:

Barb

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:50 pm

Oh Barb,
I'm so sorry about the Butia. It was so beautiful. I know how sad I would be. You have my sympathy.
--Erik

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:54 pm

Jim,
great new photos.
Brugmansia leaves are huge! Those were in the ground all winter, right?
Castor bean: great. Not sure if my chickens would live long enough to learn to leave them alone, so I'll take a pass until Bill tests them for me with his girl-friends hens.

Gunnera: keep the updates coming all Summer. That is your plant I'm most excited by this season. --Erik

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 4:06 pm

Sorry Barb

Kory
Right now the one in the slightly shadier spot is looking better-hard to say though as they are both
just moving into a new growth faze/spurt.

Erik
I tried overwintering some Brugs,they were probably to small-didn't make it-
these are from a seller off e-bay,bought in early April I believe.
Gunnera seems to be one of those plants that does a lot of underground
growth first but the bulb is getting much bigger.

Okanagan desert-palms · Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:53 pm

Jim looking great. I have a couple to try the saw on. Barb maybe you waited to long to do the cutting?

John

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:57 pm

Thanks folks.
Yup you're probably right John...I waited too long to cut them down to live tissue before total rot set in.
Barb

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:25 am

Once the leaves start to die below where the spear pulls it's a good idea to take a look/cut.

That was the reason I cut mine in the first place,the leaves were starting to fold up.

BILL MA · Post by **BILL MA** » Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:43 am

Jim,
That is simply amazing my friend! Who other then you could save palms that where that far gone, great work. They are going to be some stumpy little buggers by the end of the season too, they should be very unique.

Nice yard update too.

Barb,
Sorry to here about your palms

Bill

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:52 am

Hey Bill!

I think it will surprise most that the trunks will probably regrow to there former size by
later in the year or next year,you know-counting the petioles that had their leaves removed when it was cut,
they have put out the equivalent of four leaves,this is right on pace with the fastest Trachys I have-
like the Naini Tal !

As you said though,they may be stumpy for a while.

Dude-my Black Thai bananas and Itinerans are going ca-razy!!

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:37 pm

I didn't tug the spears hard enough earlier...was afraid to find that out

BTW, I love those somewhat contorted, twisted fronds, Jim.
I kinda hope they don't outgrow that...very cool looking.

Your Naini Tal is such a trooper! and remember last year you were betting yours was not going to grow as fast as mine?

Barb

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:03 am

The leaves are already starting to shape up.

What happened to the Naini Tal Barb?

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Jun 08, 2010 12:09 pm

What happened to the Naini Tal?
First the Freeze Pruf test.
Then Winter
Then the Grim Reaper

T O A S T !!!

Barb

sidpook · Post by **sidpook** » Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:44 pm

lucky1 wrote:What happened to the Naini Tal?
First the Freeze Pruf test.
Then Winter
Then the Grim Reaper

T O A S T !!!

Barb

Waugh!!!!!

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:13 pm

Did the spear pull as well,or was it turned into a fine powder by(the obvious)nuclear fall-out in your area.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:16 pm

Spear pulled only during exacto knife surgery a few days ago.
Total mush.
So yours wins...in more ways than one

Barb

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:18 pm

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:20 pm

Freeze Pruf = Life Proof

I may wash my car with it instead.

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:28 pm

Don't do that it leaves spots.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:01 pm

Noticed that...blue spots.

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:59 pm

Barb,
I'm sorry. That was a good -looking palm.
As for Freeze-Pruf, is there a thread (here or on EPS) dedicated to how it did this winter? --Erik

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:50 pm

Yes, Erik there was a thread where David Francko chimed in.
The company was sold to, I believe, something called Liquid Fence.
Some people reported the product was brown, mine left blue stains on the palms, so maybe it's a different formula?

Whatever...!
Didn't work for the Naini Tal.
Barb

BILL MA · Post by **BILL MA** » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:08 pm

I still have a whole gallon of the stuff. Maybe it gets better with age like a good scotch?

Bill

Paul Ont · Post by **Paul Ont** » Wed Jun 09, 2010 4:47 pm

The whole Freeze-pruf thing is a little off-putting... I bought some, I should have waited. We all got reeled in by the claims (2-9f extra cold protection), but, really if you think about it, that's not all that much extra. I was a little suspicious when it was pointed out that there was no published peer-reviewed paper on the product. Oh well, live and learn.

For the record, I think that the stuff may do what is advertised (2f of extra protection), however, our problem is that we're looking for a miracle product, and this isn't it!

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:49 pm

Barb,
I remember that thread. I was wondering is there was post-winter follow-up by folks who had used it. I guess this thread is it.
--Erik

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:28 pm

No, this isn't that thread Erik.
But I can't find it.
David Francko posted a reply or two.
Will look for it when time allows.

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:49 pm

I'm busy today, too. Maybe over the weekend I'll look for it.
Or threads on other forums.
I didn't buy any; I figured I'd let other folks run the experiment.....

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Sat Jun 12, 2010 10:12 am

Glad you and somebody else on another forum brought this up-
it reminded me to send in my label for a refund,it cost $40

I tried spraying this on some of the banana leaves this spring when it got chilly-
I would swear that the leaves I sprayed were the only ones damaged.
I still have almost a gallon,so I will try it on a variety of plants this fall/winter and give
it a more thorough test.

Here's the link to the thread on F-Pruf where Francko responded.

viewtopic.php?p=20460&sid=3f3a67fbf3e2a ... c44ce2d02a

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:47 am

Thasnks, Jim!
I'll look for that journal submission he referred to so I can share that when it is published. --Erik

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:22 pm

Jim, funny you should mention this:

I would swear that the leaves I sprayed were the only ones damaged.

In my case, it wasn't the ONLY ones damaged, since the bloody thing is now toast.
But some of you may recall that where I sprayed the FP the blue seemed to permanently (until it died) stain the 2 or 3 leaves it landed on.

Again, other folks said the stuff is a brown liquid.
Whatever!!!

Thanks for digging up that link.
Barb

BILL MA · Post by **BILL MA** » Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:09 pm

My liquid was white like milk? WTF!

Bill