Takil post with pics from habitat,some of the best ever!

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Thu May 20, 2010 6:46 am

Absolutely amazing post from the GOTE forum on Takil-

Some of the best pics I have ever seen of this magical Trachy
growing right next to Oak,Pine and many other types of plants!

http://www.growingontheedge.net/viewtop ... f=2&t=4552

JackLord · Post by **JackLord** » Thu May 20, 2010 6:59 am

Wow! Amazing pics. Right out of National Geographic. Thanks for posting the link.

BILL MA · Post by **BILL MA** » Thu May 20, 2010 7:11 am

That was really Cool Jim.
The trunks look like they make down with there fibers

The should be good for a few more degree's.

Good find!
Bill

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu May 20, 2010 10:20 am

Fabulous, thanks for posting that Jim.
Imagine! a 3 month trip looking at Palms

Barb

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Thu May 20, 2010 12:00 pm

Thanks, Jim!
Those were some great photos.
About your comment on palms, oaks and pines growing together: that is the case in the Maya mountains of Belize where I do my jaguar research. It is not how us gardeners think of palms, but I think a temperate gardener could do a very effective landscape inspired by that mix. --Erik

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Thu May 20, 2010 12:26 pm

I wonder if the Pine down there aren't different as the ones in the
photos with Takil look like the kind you would see in Colorado or other mountainous
regions where snow is common.

BILL MA · Post by **BILL MA** » Thu May 20, 2010 7:24 pm

I saw some long leaf rhodies in the picture similar to the NC mountains. I'm surprised Paul didn't pick that up

Bill

Paul Ont · Post by **Paul Ont** » Fri May 21, 2010 4:16 am

Bill- Here's my reply from the other board:

Lovely shots. The habitat of these palms is absolutely amazing! I'd say it certainly 'looks' like a Western form of Trachycarpus fortunei... Don't shoot!

The Rhododendron with red flowers in the pics is Rhododendron arboreum. The hardiest forms of this species (to zone 7) have white to pink flowers (certainly not as red as those in the pics)... The Indian form is generally hardy to around 10f before it gets leaf damage. There will not necessarily be a correlation between the hardiness of the Rhodo and the hardiness of the palms, but, I am going to say that I am a little disappointed to see them growing together... Oh, and I do like the 'airy' bamboo that can be seen in some of the pics.

Info on the Rhody:

http://www.rhododendron.org/descriptionS_new.asp?ID=8
http://www.rhododendron.org/descriptionS_new.asp?ID=9
http://www.rhododendron.org/descriptionS_new.asp?ID=42

By West, I mean relative to the 'normal' range of Trachycarpus... The Western edge of it's range.

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Fri May 21, 2010 7:15 am

Bill-
Here was my response to Paul's post on the Hardy Palm forum

Boys will be boys

There are no western forms of Trachycarpus.

Take a look at Andrews post above or Type 3 from the link Andrew posted there.
As seen here.

http://palmgardensbergstrom.com/pages/o ... ligule.php

This MIGHT help bring you up to speed although...........
I am not sure there's any hope for you Paul

BANG!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pretty significant difference between the ligules of Takil and Fortunei+
notice the tomentum on the petioles of the Takil,similar to some Martianus

Paul Ont · Post by **Paul Ont** » Sat May 22, 2010 4:33 am

Jeez- I didn't realize that T. oreophilius was just fortunei too! Who knew?

Seriosuly though, I so wonder if, as Dr. John suggested, we took a transect through the region where the Trachycarpus palms are found, we'd find continual variation. Obviously, it makes little sense to name the 'extreme' (if they can so be called) forms of the palms if intermediate forms exist. I just don't know how many of these palms are good species.

And to bring this back to what matters, are any of these taxa hardier than the currently cultivated T. fortunei (or takil or nanital)? I hope so, but I do have my doubts!

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Sat May 22, 2010 7:42 am

Paul Ont wrote:Jeez- I didn't realize that T. oreophilius was just fortunei too! Who knew?

And to bring this back to what matters, are any of these taxa hardier than the currently cultivated T. fortunei (or takil or nanital)? I hope so, but I do have my doubts!

Paul
What do you mean by "these"?

You know it really seems like these palms could have originated from one species and
evolved according to where they are growing,they(all Trachys) really are quite
the mysterious palms!

Yea,didn't Gibbons and Spanner say Oreophilus and Takil are the same?
I wonder if they are just getting lazy

it is quite a perplexing situation.

In regard to Takil,it does appear to be the most cold tolerant of all the Trachys,
Max from EPS said during the record cold of the 80s Fortunei were all but wiped out!
Takil was undamaged though!
The only set back I see with Takil is if it indeed grows slower than Fortunei etc,
recovery may be an issue.
The Atlanta (?)Takil(?)may put that into question though if it is that size in only 20yrs!

We will just have to wait and see.
So many good minds are into this now that we are seeing more and more interesting info
come out faster than ever before,thanks to palm forums,the internet,etc!

Paul Ont · Post by **Paul Ont** » Sat May 22, 2010 8:09 am

Jim- I do really like the Trachycarpus... I just like to get people going!

I think that we'll probably find that 'takil-oreophilius-urkhense' are one species complex and 'fortunei-princeps-nanus' is another. T. martianus is clearly separate and unique. The lack of genetic diversity is a problem, however. It is certainly an interesting situation with those mountains and valleys over there!

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Sat May 22, 2010 9:50 am

Sounds to me like we need more DNA from wild Trachy over a diverse area.
Anybody looking for a PhD project that involves extensive travel to Asia?
--Erik