Homemade Palm food

oppalm · Post by **oppalm** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 6:44 am

Pulled this off the internet while looking for palm fertilizer, it is a homemade palm food.

1/2 can beer
1 cup epsom salts
1/4 cup ammonia
1 cup water

mix together and water normally.

My first thoughts were if I was going to use this I might add it to a gallon of water.

What do you think?

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:13 am

Hey Kent,

Interesting you posted that.
I "bought" that recipe off the internet, cost $29.00 last year.
Didn't get around to trying it until last month.

I'm still waiting for my Palm special fertilizer to arrive, and NO palm food is available in the North Okanagan.

Yes MIX IT! Instructions said to mix 1 ounce of the concoction with 1 gallon water.
Also, make sure you use regular household ammonia, not SUDSY type.

I had to label it in the fridge, so hubby wouldn't think it was beer...

I'm keeping "photo records"...don't see any results yet EXCEPT my little Chamaerops humilis is going crazy.
They're not known for rampant growth, but it's put out one and a half fronds in a month.
On my other palms, nothing but the regular, expected growth that comes this time of year in a warm house, misting twice daily.

It'll be interesting to read of your results.
Barb

oops, here's the C.humilis pic.
This is the only time in 2 years he's grown more than 1 leaf, so...?

oppalm · Post by **oppalm** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:00 pm

very interesting Barb. You can't find palm fertilizer in Canada, seriously? Whoever posted this recipe forgot and left out to add 1 oz to a gallon of water. Makes more sense now. I do like the fact that my recipe is for 1/2 can of beer, because then I can drink the other half as I'm fertilizing my palm trees.

Let the fertilizing begin. I'll report back with my findings.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:34 pm

Kent,
Glad you didn't put the stuff on full strength.

And my recipe called for a 10 oz. can of beer...got to drink the other two ounces.

Yours is for half a can?

Re the palm fertilizer in Canada "controversy".
Even John has to go to the Vancouver area to get his; he uses Lilly Miller (or whatever the name was).
I figured if I have to drive 300 miles, I might as well pay a few bucks and get it off the internet.

It was a toss-up whether to get Carl Pool (which is very highly regarded) and the one I ordered out of White Plains New York.
Or was that Philadelphia? Nope, I think that's where I bought the FreezePruf.

I ended up buying this: http://www.growthproducts.com/pages/arb ... product=71
Should be here in a few days.
While waiting, I used the 1 oz./gallon "internet concoction".

Nurseries here scoff when I ask if they carry Palm Special Fertilizer.
They say "just use 20-20-20"...

So to hell with Canadian retailers/nurseries.
I'll buy out of the US of A.

Kent, maybe take some pics and you'll see if the stuff works wonders.
Barb

PS--keep the rest of the concoction in the fridge...label it!

oppalm · Post by **oppalm** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 9:09 am

Its made with beer for crying out loud, it won't last in my house

I actually have not made any yet. Thought I would get some opinions before I whipped some up. THANKS for your quick response.

I went out yesterday and bought some Espoma Palm-Tone all natural organic palm food. Its a 4-1-5 with micronutrients.
the stuff smells real bad, if it smells this bad, its gotta be good, right? Hopefully the smell will go away in a few days. Espoma has a web site. 5 pounds of the stuff was only $4.99 USD. We'll see how it works.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:04 am

4-1-5 with its extra Potassiium would be especially effective for palms susceptible to LY.
I've tried burying pieces of banana peels into the potting mix

to give palms a potassium boost.

So far the fungus gnats love that

Drink the beer, Kent, and maybe hold off with the internet concoction until summer.
It's not like Thrive or SuperThrive that you add to your regular fertilizer applications.

I'm still waiting for my palm special fertilizer to arrive after nearly 3 weeks.
Maybe it's coming on a sleigh...

Barb

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:58 pm

I bought that too.
Sad to say it's a scam.
My recipe said 1/2 cup ammonia and 1 full beer.
It does not do much of anything,I used it several times last year.
I'm sure it's good for palms.
I will use Carl Pools and Banana fuel next year,esp after seeing the obscene results Bill got last summer

turtile · Post by **turtile** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:57 pm

I wouldn't waste your time using that recipe. Epsom salts is normally around 8% Magnesium and Ammonia is usually <10% Nitrogen. Nitrogen is the most limiting nutrient for palms with Potassium coming in second. The first problem problem that occurs is the fact that concentration of magnesium can be anywhere from 4-8x or more higher than nitrogen and there is no potassium in the mix except the very small amount in the beer. Further, there is no phosphorus in the mix other than small amount in the beer (this is less of a problem at the beginning).

Without enough nitrogen and potassium (and phosphorus later on), there is no use for all of the magnesium. Ammonia must also be converted by bacteria into NH4+/NO3- (plant available forms of nitrogen) in order to be absorbed by plants. When you add too much magnesium, the magnesium may replace nitrogen (NH4+) and potassium (which you aren't adding in a significant amount) in the soil. The nitrogen and potassium will wash out of the soil. When the magnesium levels get too high, they will also wash out.

Basically, you are providing no benefit to the plant and wasting money buying nutrients that the plant can't absorb is a useful way. Instead of the fertilizer being absorbed by the plant, it is washed out of the container!

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:18 pm

Thanks for that explanation.

Soil in pots is generally sterile too, i.e. no bacteria to help, which took me a while to get my head around

So me cutting up banana peels and putting into the potted palm was likely useless for potassium...

Also, heard that incorrect magnesiuim affects calcium levels, making it unavailable to the plant?

Thankfully my proper "special palm fertilizer" will arrive soon.
Barb

turtile · Post by **turtile** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:13 am

lucky1 wrote:Thanks for that explanation.

Soil in pots is generally sterile too, i.e. no bacteria to help, which took me a while to get my head around
So me cutting up banana peels and putting into the potted palm was likely useless for potassium...

Also, heard that incorrect magnesiuim affects calcium levels, making it unavailable to the plant?

Thankfully my proper "special palm fertilizer" will arrive soon.
Barb

Potting mix isn't sterile but pasteurized. The idea is to get rid of the pathogenic organisms yet keep the organisms that don't really have any direct association with the plant. If a medium is sterile and a pathogen gets in, it will have no competition and become a huge problem. Banana peels will break down but the amount of potassium supplied during the process is very small.

Too much potassium can cause magnesium deficiency. I'm not sure if too much magnesium can affect calcium uptake in general. Calcium is held onto organic matter stronger than magnesium so it could cause a problem in potting mix since it is mostly organic material (Peat).

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:39 am

Interesting. The light is starting to go on, ha ha.

Then there's something like Cation Exchange too, which I don't understand either.

How do you know all this stuff?

Barb

turtile · Post by **turtile** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:52 pm

lucky1 wrote:Interesting. The light is starting to go on, ha ha.

Then there's something like Cation Exchange too, which I don't understand either.

Barb

Cation Exchange Capacity is the soil's ability to hold cations (positively charged ions) due to the negatively charged soil.

The nutrients stick to the soil due to this. ( + nutrient attracted to the - soil).

Here is the order in which the nutrients are more likely to be adsorbed:

Ca+2 (calcium) > Mg+2 (magnesium) > K+ (potassium) = NH4+ (Ammonium - contains Nitrogen) > Na+ (sodium)

So if you add calcium to the soil (with something like gypsum (calcium sulfate)), it will knock off and replace sodium in the soil.

lucky1 wrote: How do you know all this stuff?

I've taken two classes that deal with soil.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:27 pm

so, based on your "order", to get rid of salts that build up in plant containers, just add calcium?

But doesn't that make the soil more alkaline? (in the case of acid-loving plants).

I appreciate the lesson!
Barb

Laaz · Post by **Laaz** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:31 pm

Beer ? No way I'm giving up my beer to any palms !

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:54 pm

Just buy more beer, Todd

Hey, that "internet concoction" may not be a scam after all.
Why else would my palms be flushing now.

Trying to keep some records...I put the "concoction" on the palms November 10th. So six weeks later they're growing again.
The beer/ammonia stuff does work!

Barb

BILL MA · Post by **BILL MA** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:02 pm

I hear ya Todd, the beers are for us!

Bill

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:12 pm

It's probably better for the plants

after we drink it.

turtile · Post by **turtile** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:43 pm

lucky1 wrote:so, based on your "order", to get rid of salts that build up in plant containers, just add calcium?

But doesn't that make the soil more alkaline? (in the case of acid-loving plants).

I appreciate the lesson!
Barb

Adding calcium would help lower the amount of sodium (Na) in the soil, not the amount of salt in the soil. For examples, sodium chloride and magnesium sulfate are salts. The best way to get rid of salt is to continue to water the soil until all of the salts are leached out of the it.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:22 pm

Oh...Thanks! Got it.

Just don't leave the room...

Barb

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:48 pm

There's something GOOD in that internet concoction (the beer one).

Bottle Palm (Hyophorbe lagenicaulis) is opening a spear indoors, a little early this year.
It's got to be because of that beer concoction.

After all, the palm special fertilizer didn't arrive until last week so it can't be that so soon.

Barb