Rain and winter cover

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:15 pm

So here are a few pics of winter and rain protection,this first phase is to help with keeping cactus on dry side as there is still quite a bit of moisture 4" down in cactus bed.I have already grown tired of covering the cactus bed even though I only had to do it once so far,this structure will go back to porch when two more sections are added Nov 1.The first part and eventually all of it will be covered with "clear" plastic film,for now this is easier than trying to cover cactus with buckets and tarp everytime more than a few tenths of rain are forecast.I will update each process of all my protection plans on this thread and would love to hear others opinions

and see what you guys are doing!Thanks JIM

Barrie · Post by **Barrie** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:53 am

You'll have to support it with upright posts to take a snow load. How does the poly stay attached to the mesh?

Cheers, Barrie.

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 2:18 pm

Thanks Barrie.The archs will be connected across the middle,as in braced from one side to the other about a third of the way down from the top,this keeps it from flexing and allows tha arch to support a heavey load like an arch should.I will also have posts near the bottom of each corner to make sure they stay in the ground,although they are already anchored in the ground with"stakes.With the sides and center secured I think this design will be able to hold quite a bit of weight of snow and ice,more than could ever stay on it with how rounded the top is.
The plastic is the trick as you have noticed!My plan as of today

is to bring the plastic on each side about half way up,then to cut 4"slits at each verticle part of the frame and tape down on the inside each piece and then put another long strip across,I will do this on both sides,then I will bring one large piece of plastic over the top,kind of like one long comb over,at the end of this will be a bar heavy enough to pull the plastic tight over the top,this will hang down on one side and can be rolled back like a retractable roof so I can open to let them get rain if I want to.I think basically everything should work and be stable in high winds!,the one thing I do not have worked out in my mind yet is the ends,right now I am thinking the top needs to overhang the ends by 4" so each end is inset and sealed,I think this side is kind of the tricky part,this part may not be attractive but as long as it works I will live with it!Any suggestions are definitely welcome!!

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:03 pm

Barrie,good question about how to secure the plastic,I think I have a system worked out that will work but I tried using some tape and it did not stick,I am going to order some special plastic tarp tape,if tape does not hold well the back up plan is to lay chicken wire over the plastic on the whole outside so the wind can not lift it ,Thanks Jim

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:57 am

Your posts to reinforce for snowload/weight shift will be necessary.

Since you're extending the wire cage right to the sundeck, how about a 16 foot long 2x4 or 2x3 nailed to the sundeck railing that juts out and forms a "ridge cap" for the wire cage(s), eventually being nailed at the other end to an upright post.
Inside the frames you could brace the ridge cap with "crutches" (v-notch) so each upright is nailed and holds the ridge cap up.

Re tape for plastic/tarps, would Tuck Tape stick? (the red stuff, abt 3 inches wide, used to join vapor barriers in during house construction).

Great plants, great yard.

Barb

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:05 am

Thanks barb,I think you guys would be surprised at how strong this stuff is,its called cattle panel and when arched like this would support quite a heavy load,this structure also does not have much room center top for snow,if it is braced on each end and supported across in the middle I think it could hold a couple feet of heavy snow as long as in does not shift to either side,we shall see and thank you guys for bringing this up as it is definitely better to overbuild than underbuild

As far as the tape goes I tried some thing like duct tape and some clear packing tape and it opened back up,it does not have the right stickyness to it,so I ordered some tape that is designed for greenhouse film and tarps that is supposed to be as strong as the film when taped together and the guy at farmtek said this stuff really holds!I think my main concern with this is making sure the plastic stays together from the start because as I am sure you guys know,the times your protection usually breaks down is when you really need it,I don't think any tape sticks in 0 degree weather

I will post more pics as it comes togher,thanks for the feedback

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:13 am

Hey, Jim.
Your cattle panel looks similar to what we call Page Wire, and you're correct in how strong it is (gauge-wise).
Since snowload can cave-in mall steel-span/concrete roofs, I think you're wise to focus on that.

A structure with a peak (versus dome-shaped) would likely shed snow more easily.

I've got some Tuck Tape in the shop; will try it out on plastic/tarps.
I can never get the bloody stuff OFF anything...

Please keep us informed on your progress.
Barb

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 1:35 pm

I definitely plan on updateing this thread as I go along and that includes any cave ins this winter

I have found that the tape I planned on using stuck to everything!,untill I tried it on this plastic

,I think because this"greenhouse film is so much thicker than anything else I tried. I assumed this tape would work but this film has an almost waxey surface to it,so a special tape is needed.I will give this new tape a try and let you know how it works,one thing that is really nice is that these rolls(remnants) are 3"x200' and only cost $5.99 each,about $14.00 total with shipping but for 200'

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:23 pm

You'll have PREVENTED any cave-ins

Yes please update routinely.

That tape IS cheap, compared to TuckTape; TT sells for about $11.00 (but that's Canada!

)
Will look forward to seeing it.

Barb

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:43 pm

Yea,this tape is a great deal even with shipping,duct tape(or duck tape as some people call it)is expensive here too.I added another piece today and dug up the bananas,even though they are(green ones)basjoo, I want to keep their size,( just in case they do not overwinter for some reason) these should easily reach 12' from this size next year!and I don't want to start over with small ones again.
So here is a pic of the new piece-The more barren yard and the bananas inside

Can you guess which one is the dwarf?
<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -08001.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -08001.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -08002.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -08002.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -20-08.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -20-08.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:33 am

Are you planning to protect the palms that are away from your winter cover?
Or are you digging them up?

Those basjoo are huge.

Can understand why you want to keep their size rather than revert to smaller.

My musa basjoo suffers all winter in the cold building (only heated to 45 F).
It's almost mush when I plant it out next spring.
Summer winds shred the leaves...so it's not suitable for my location.

Good luck with your great specimens.
Barb

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:46 am

Next year the basjoos go out and stay out to come up from the roots,they are definitely at the max that I would be willing to carry to the 2nd floor and repot upstairs!
All the palms and the agave on the west side of house will be protected with a variety of methods from X-mas lights for washys,to leaf cages for needles and some of the sabals,to mini g/houses for 2 waggies,2 fortunei and one of the S.louisiana's I will also be trying some styrofoam"rose"covers for a few palms that I will expose to as much winter weather as seems reasonable but when the arctic weather hits these will be closed up and packed with leaves.
I am leaning toward over protecting a little even on some of the ones I want to test cold hardiness on because most of these palms have really just established or are approaching equiliberium.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:29 am

You repot on the second floor?

No wonder you're leaving them out next year.

Haven't seen those styrofoam rose covers.
We'll look forward to seeing all your pics, Jim.

over protecting a little

Good idea because palms generally become hardier as they age.
Several references I've seen suggest not planting a palm out until it's at least in a 3 gallon pot.

Barb

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:18 pm

Yea I think a larger plant has more stored food and deeper roots to draw from.
There is no way to pot up banana plants this big and still get them upstairs,I plant in containers that are wider than they are deep to help lower the top a little, then I put a bag inside the pot and one outside so when I wheel them downstairs I can seal them so I don't lose all the soil.
The styrofoam covers provide some thermal barrier and also let in a good deal of light,I will need to see if there is any tempeture bump with the styrofoam though.
It will be interesting to see how much my trachys that are going to remain in sunlight all winter in the mini g/houses (with some heat)grow this winter compared to last winter when they were not established at all,I actually planted them Nov 1 just to see what I could learn overwintering with this technique and they made it! and are doing great- Heres theTrachy planted last Nov-
<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -08034.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -08034.jpg" border="0" alt="Overwintered trachy"></a>

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:04 pm

That's a very healthy looking Trachy.
Good for you for risking a November planting...you did everything right last Fall from the look of it.
That takes guts!

Barb

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:59 pm

Thanks Barb,the only thing I regret a little is that I had to group so close together to protect with this whole row thing,I figured I would lose some plants over winter but if I don't, crowding because of overwintering success is not a bad problem to have,the only disadvantage is that all the palms etc are so beautifull as specimens by themselves that I wish they were not so close toghether.Some of my plants there is less information about,we all have heard many stories about trachys and sabals but some of the plants I think will be interesting to watch over the winter are,cordyline,D.indivisa(spike plant)blue needle palm,asparagus fern,pulmosa fern and on the succulent side A.americana(leaf cage)tequila agave,echinopsis tubiflora.nipple cactus,engelmanni v.lindheimeri,ferocactus hamatocactus and fero-wizenzii.Most of the rest of the cactus are zone 3-5 if kept dry but a lot remains to be seen,will be interesting to see whats standing May 1

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:30 am

Agree with you about the unfortunate need to plant them close together.
All a result of living in the wrong zones for what we strive to grow.

You have some very interesting specimens; I've only seen asparagus ferns as houseplants.

What'll you do when your agave is this size? (besides jump for joy?)

http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=h ... %26hl%3Den

The Turk's Head cactus should give you little trouble:
http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=h ... %26hl%3Den

Barb

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:03 am

What'll you do when your agave is this size? (besides jump for joy?)
I will run from it

Seriously,this is one I will be surprised to see next spring but I am hopefull,this is one that will have a leaf cage over it,if it does make it.I will need to move it because it is right next to my washys

and it will be hard to cover them so close together but that would be a prob I would love to have

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:20 pm

That agave has already got such vivid blue leaves...gorgeous.
The Washys will be winter protection for it.

It might be happier with the other succulents.

Barb

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:44 pm

Happier with other succulents,funny you should mention that because it was planted in the cactus bed but I already have 3 other agaves,aloifolia,rostrata, cholla,imbricata,H.parvaflora and a gloriosa in there so I removed it a few weeks after I planted it,this poor agave has been negelected and mistreated in favor of other plants and after being tormented these past few years,rewarded me with 12 bluetifull new leaves, all are from this year and I think that pic is a month and a half old!
I will probably take a"final"roundup this weekend as 1st freeze is likely and castors and sugarcane should get roasted

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:17 pm

I will try and post some pics tomorrow as I have wrapped the washys with burlap,house insulation,plastic and the styrofoam rose covers,I had to cut the c-7 x-mas lights down from approx 13 to 3 as the temp went up to 111F inside!I think I just about have this worked out,the nice thing is that if I need more heat I can screw in a few more bulbs,pretty simple.
I also finished the"greenhouse" and I think it will work out good,we are supposed to have 20-40mph winds friday-sat so it will get its first test,better now than when its below 0F.I will try to get a pic of the g/h tomorrow if it ever stops raining,the lastest challenge with that is making a door!I think I will order a zipper off e-bay tonite that is made for attaching to plastic.I may have lost a plants already as we got almost an inch of rain last week and temps unexpectantly went down to 18F,I should really have been keeping them dry at this point but 18F was a surprise

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:33 pm

So here are some pics of the g/house and a few of the the washy overwintering procedure -I dug up the agave because I want to move it(the reason I am moving the agave is that I want to plant my butia eriospatha there as the washys and B.eriospatha will use the same protect method) to the desert area as it looks like my blue tequila agave will not make it,as I said there are some I am doubtfull about their hardiness ratings and this is one of them(said to be hardy to 0F) but you never know,sometimes a plant will lose its main growth bud or leaves and sprout out from it base and be even hardier next year,until they are mush they have a chance.Some plants have already surprised me,for better or worse,for example,the asparagus and pulmosa fern have both survived 18F which is a pleasant surprise

a little sad though about nainital losing its cevter leaf next to spear(from .72"rain and 18F 2days later,I know better! and should have covered them but 18F was a surprise!) so far the spear is o.k. but this will be an uphill battle going into winter!I have not been inside the g/house yet-LOL,still waiting for the door/zipper to arrive,anyway here are some pics,I hope.
<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -08003.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -08003.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -08004.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -08004.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -08005.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -08005.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -08006.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -08006.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -08007.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -08007.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -08003.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -08003.jpg" border="0" alt="Greenhouse"></a>
<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -08002.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -08002.jpg" border="0" alt="Inside view of g/h"></a>

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:00 pm

Man, you've done a lot of work Jim.
18F -7C must've been a shock.
Let's hope that nainital is OK, did you apply fungicide (and give it a roof)?

Re the 3 Washys, great protection. The only thing that occurred to me was to put the Christmas lites on the wire cage rather than on the burlap, which could get hot from contact w bulb.

I used twist ties to make sure bulbs were oriented away from any fabric.
And like other PN folks, the next morning it was 30C 86F inside!
Too many bulbs on!

Gotta ask a stoopid question: Why did you cut the fronds off? Tying all the fronds up would've necessitated a taller enclosure...but palms would have preferred that.

the GH turned out great! Snow will slide right off before it gets heavy.
Will you overlay it with an opaque cover so plants don't overheat on sunny days?

Now weather will get mild again (Murphy's Law)

Barb

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:34 pm

So in answer to you first question,yes I did fungicide the nainital and everything else,also everything is covered untill it warms up and I can cover some with there mini g/houses and leaf cages,they need to dry out a little before I close them in the leaf cages.
Why did I cut the leaves off?hmmm,well it was not the plan originally to use the styrofoam covers,I was going to just wrap with a few layers of burlap and I did not think there would be any room at the top for all the leaves as well as moisture concerns with more water for the extra leaves and more leaves maybe needing more air,putting the styrofoam on just was a kinda last effort to close the top as it was freezing that day and I was getting impatient to just get it covered and finished and get back inside, also some of the leaves where a little ragged looking from cold and I guess it seemed like the right choice at the time,although if I had it to do over I would have left a few more on as the styrofoam covers leave pleanty more room and offer some light,I also remember thinking that I should leave some room for at least 2 more leaves to grow,is that enough answers?

that was basically all the thought that went into it,(maybe not)I think also that the person I originally copied this idea from did it this way and it worked,so,I guess better safe than sorry,it would be interesting to try it with more leaves and see if this provides more stored food for the plant over winter or is a bigger drag on the plant,I think part of my plan is to keep them as dry as possible as I think they will be more cold hardy in case I miss turning on the lights and they get cold,I am concerned about moisture being trapped in this area as it is a small space but I guess as long as the heat is on it will get out,anyway,lets see what else did you ask?oh yea,the lights are pointed away from the burlap and there is house insulation on the other side,I guess your saying point the lights in to the plant from the cage?The bulbs individually get to 150F not really hot enough(fingers crossed) to start a fire

I have reduced the #lit to 3 and this seems to work great,if it isn't warm enough during arctic out breaks I can always screw back in another bulb or 2,pretty simple.I will post some pics of the mini g/houses and leaf cages as I finish them,thenks for the feedback

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sun Nov 16, 2008 2:53 pm

Jim, I was just curious about cutting the fronds off.
I've never overwintered palms outdoors...too chicken to try.

Yours will be well protected for anything winter throws at them.
Good luck with all your hard work.
Barb

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Sun Nov 16, 2008 9:19 pm

Was that enough answers or what!

?Washys grow so fast,I think these will be jamming by May,they were really moving even in the cool weather,if they can pull through I could see them putting out 7-9 leaves next year,esp if its a hotter summer than this year which was remarkably cool

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:00 am

Yes it was Jim
Your passion for plants is evident!

My 3 new Washy filifera are still pushing new fronds, despite both lower temps and daylight hours.
I'm also hoping for many fronds next year.
If they can handle the hot dry winds, they'll be situated where they receive blistering sun all day long.

Barb

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:16 pm

Barb if there is any palm that can handle hot dry winds its a washy,they grow amazingly well in Phoenix and Palm Desert!such a versatile palm!you gotta love them.\,even though my first try(mistake-lol)took them to 111F they are still looking good

,they may need to put out a few leaves that get beat up at first(as they adapt( but they are solid after that

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 5:00 pm

Jim, that 111F is a taste of next summer.

they do sound almost bulletproof.

The right type of palm for Canadians, too!

Barb

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:29 pm

They just don't tolerate cool/cold and wet.Barb,I can't help but notice how many people look at these posts but don't post, very strange.have anymore pics of your palms?what are you growing?whats planted and what are you planting next year?also what is your climate like??????hey, you asked about a cover to keep it from overheating-the back of it pulls all the way down and this keeps the temps in check,it really only needs the back wall down when the temp goes over 45F and this will keep it in the 70s inside,in spring when we start hiting 60s,I will have a fan cooling the inside,I probably won't heat it untill lows hit low teens to about 10F-my goal is to keep it above 0F as an absolute minimum,everything in there should be able to handle single digits and many can handle less.I also like to warm it up sometimes if we have a period of 2-3 days or more below freezing and clouds so they don't spend long periods below freezing,(with the sun out it would need to be -10 to not warm up over freezing inside) I will probably end up babying them a little the first year or two untill they establish some cold hardiness.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:00 pm

Hi Jim,
Yes I'm going to love having Washy filiferas. Most of my other palms need to be protected from the blistering sun in the afternoon so they end up taking up all space on east side of patio.
But the Washys will be steamin by the time the sun goes down each day

Don't know why I haven't tried them before.

I'm not as brave as you or other folks here, and haven't overwintered anything (I end up digging it out before winter hits).
Glad you're going to baby your enclosed plants for a while. It's certainly worth it, and we learn a lot by looking into the enclosure every two hours at night

Your method sounds like it's a good one.

Re people looking versus people posting.
That's OK, I think it's nice that people look just to see what's happening, maybe they haven't got anything to offer that day.
I've done it too, in a hurry, look at 5 or 6 new postings, vowing to go back when I have time, and forgetting to do that.
There are a couple of websites that I read frequently, but have never joined because the participants are all real pros in the gardening/palm business. I'd have zilch to contribute to anybody from Florida!

You'll be sorry you asked for more pics...ha ha, I can fill this internet site for 2 days with pics...

Climate first: In C only. So much info below, your eyes will glaze over!
http://www.climate.weatheroffice.ec.gc. ... &autofwd=0

In a nutshell, we have global warming to thank.
Winters 30 years ago were -30C, summers wonderful but not blistering hot like now...back yard hit 42 or 43C a couple of times this year 107F
Winters now seldom get to -20C -4F and if they do, it's only for a few days or a week.
We now get more rain than years ago, which is good because we're semi-arid at only 13 inches precip a year.
Get lots of wind on our south slope that blows around anything not nailed down.
Not as many thunderstorms as years ago.
Fortunately no severe stuff (earthquakes, monsoons, cyclones, typhoons, tornados, mudslides, sinkholes etc.) Knock on wood!

As to plants I grow, a few pics (at a time, ha ha):
Here's a Reed/Bamboo palm flowering... I've had only a year

from the left, below in the house is a Spindle Palm, three little Triangles, a Bird of Paradise and a Dioon Spinulosum

Another bunch from a September repotting session:

A bunch more:

Then there are some in another building

pics another time.
Don't want to crash the site!

Barb

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:41 pm

Very nice Barb!did not know Canada had desert areas,judging from the view out the window in your second pic looks like a beautiful area!My plan for the palms is copied from"growing palms in colorado springs usda zone 5b"this is one to read with alot of good info on how keeping palms dry greatly increases cold hardiness,I only wish I would have followed it more closely as 3palms have spear pull and 2 partial spear pull,my 2 cordylines may be toast as well,strage because some other ones in peoples yards around here look o.k.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 5:11 pm

Thanks, Jim.
We're not desert as in sand dunes and such (although...if they don't stop overgrazing the hills, they will turn to sand)...but we're semi, especially on this south slope.
That window view was to the valley bottom. It's a lot drier and more brown hills looking the other way.

Our administrator here (Jay) did a nice photo journal of another hot dry area south of us that resembles our place.
Here are his pics.
http://www.palmsnorth.com/forum/viewtop ... ht=osoyoos

I'll keep an eye out for that book.
Sounds like a good resource if they're talking about zone 5a.

Oh what a shame your palms and cordyline are threatened. Talking again about locations, I notice from your pics you are located basically on flat land (presume a valley bottom?). If that's so, and depending on your soil type, your soil may hold water for a very long time even on hot days...at the surface it may feel dry from the heat of the sun.

If you think you're watering too much, I'd suggest a percolation test you can conduct yourself.
I had to do this a long time ago myself when we were applying for a permit for a septic drain field on our acreage.

In two or three locations in your yard (of different character...a rocky outcrop area, for example; along the edge of a dry stream bed; and in the center of the back yard). Dig one hole in each of the three areas, about 1 foot deep. Clean out all the loose debris. Get three buckets of water, all filled to the same level.
Gently pour water from bucket 1 into hole 1, and so on.
And then time how long it takes for water to completely disappear.
Wish I still had the instructions for "what percolation timing means" or whatever it was called.
It sure gave me a good idea how long it takes to move a certain volume of water through our soil.

A person may think he has nice garden soil when in fact it's half clay which drains poorly (but has lots of nutrients).

And losing plants, presumably to poor drainage/root rot, is disheartening (and expensive).

I'd knock on their doors and ask what they're doing right!
Or, alternately, Jim, maybe the plants are too dry when very young.
Most plants seem to like more water when they're young, and can handle very dry as they age.

Hope your plants pull through OK.
Barb

Laaz · Post by **Laaz** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:38 pm

Barb the "Bamboo palm" I believe is a Chamaedorea seifrizii. They do great in shade and are a very nice clumping palm. they work great as a house plant.

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:53 pm

Sorry Barb,I should have mentioned that growing palms in colorado springs usda zone 5b,is a website! The soil drains extremely well,the prob with the cactus is that I should have covered them from ANY rain starting Oct 1,I think I was babying them to much and should have let them do their thing,we also had record flooding in spring and there is to much deep moisture in the cactus bed,I will just need to keep them a little warmer than I originally planned for a few months until things dry out,hopefully mother nature will help out by not sending us the cold stuff untill late Jan!I can always tell if things are approaching being dry enough if there is no moistue on the plastic on cold nights. I removed alot of leaves from inside big g/h today that are holding on to moisture.At this point all I can do is see if cactus,palms,etc will respond in a month are so,if not,lesson learned!I will be smarter next year

-I also deep watered about 3weeks ago with potassium and should have let this be the end of watering for 6-8weeks but it rained .72" and I should have covered them! Big mistake

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:44 pm

I'll look at that website...easier than reading a book anyway!

Glad you have excellent drainage (just too much rain).
A lot of folks in Vancouver (where it rains about 60 to 90 inches annually) plant succulents on raised mounds under which extra gravel has been added. That helps the roots, but as you know, not the tops. Often planting under eaves can help, especially on the side of the building away from prevailing winds (wind-driven rain).

Would a small fan help? Can the moisture vent out somewhere?
It'll likely continue to wick up through moist soil into the enclosure.

It's lousy learning this stuff the hard way.
Especially when you've put so much effort into it as you have.
Barb

Okanagan desert-palms · Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:52 pm

Jim that is some dedication you have with protection for your plants. Everyone zone 8 and below has to be ingenious with most of what we grow and protect. I would like to see some mid winter pics how things are holding up.It Looks like you have the right ideas.

John

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:50 am

Thanks Ok,I will post some pics soon and some later.
Barb,you and I are on the same page

I put a fan in there last night!and the back of the g/house is down to vent moisture out,temps are going into the low 50s today

Knnn · Post by **Knnn** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:16 am

Jim,

Nice work on everything!

The Palms in Colorado Springs site was hosted on AOL Homepages, AOL decided to discontinue that service 10/31

There is still a copy at archive.org,
http://web.archive.org/web/200712081349 ... oking.html

This is the page with the vascular data,
http://web.archive.org/web/200412100921 ... dData.html

Hopefully the author will start up another site.

Steve

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:55 am

PalmsNorth.com

Rain and winter cover

Rain and winter cover

Protection methods