Help with my Trachy Fortunei

Cowtown Palm Society · Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:01 pm

Hi Everyone at Palms North from Calgary!

I love the site! Finally decided to join to consult the experts on the state of my Trachy. Here's the story:
I brought my Trachy Fortunei home this summer from a nursery in Calgary. Wonderful growth all summer in a partial shade/west facing location. I brought him inside (to a west facing window) in the middle of October for the winter, at which time he started to grow a new frond very quickly. As roots began to emerge from the holes in the bottom of his pot, I thought it might be time to upgrade to a bigger/more permanent pot. I figured since growth was strong (and I thought the indoors would feel like the tropics compared to cool Calgary summer nights), it may have been a good time. Since the re-potting in mid Oct., however, there has been no further sign of growth. Shock, lower winter light, I don't know? Too much water, not enough? Recently, and possibly of more concern, some of the lower/older fronds are turning black (after they go dark green). I know that older fronds turning color is normal, but this color doesn't seem right to me. Should I cut these discolored fronds off right away? Here's some pics...any help is immensely appreciated...thanks! I hope the photo links work! On a positive note, my Needle Palm (Rhapidophyllum hystrix) is thriving (maybe photos next time!). Thanks!

http://www.imagehostdirect.com/images/C ... res067.jpg

http://www.imagehostdirect.com/images/C ... res069.jpg

http://www.imagehostdirect.com/images/C ... res070.jpg[/url]

Also, check out this gallery. It is a good contrast of healthy fronds and dying ones...thanks!

http://www.imagehostdirect.com/gallery. ... ing-Trachy

Paul Ont · Post by **Paul Ont** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 7:40 am

Looks like a water issue to me (i.e. not enough...). Is the soil dry to the touch? Is the spear still green and firm? If the spear is okay, then I wouldn't worry too much, the new growth will replace the damage once the palm is moved back outside!

Who carries Trachycarpus in Calgary?

Cheers,
Paul

P.S. You're not in trouble until your tachy goes into decline and starts to look like this:

That's what a completely defoliated 3-4 year old Trachy looks like in Spring afer a zone 5 winter!

Cali-wanna-b · Post by **Cali-wanna-b** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:29 am

Doesn't look like over watering....BTW I am the local expert on the subject of over watering...............I must say I have never seen leaves turn black like that on a trachy before.

Cowtown Palm Society · Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:18 pm

[quote="Paul Ont"]Looks like a water issue to me (i.e. not enough...). Is the soil dry to the touch? Is the spear still green and firm? If the spear is okay, then I wouldn't worry too much, the new growth will replace the damage once the palm is moved back outside!

Who carries Trachycarpus in Calgary?

Thanks Paul,

My watering regimen has been pretty much once a week (thoroughly, with residual water coming out the bottom). I thought this might even be too much. The spear is firm and green though.

One of our "Goldenacres" stores had some trachys. They were just mixed in with the indoor tropicals. I was pretty pumped to see it though last June. Thanks for advice...its just the black discoloration that's got me concerned.

Cheers!

Kansas · Post by **Kansas** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:25 pm

WOW, I think once a week while indoors in the Winter is WAY TO MUCH!!!

Alchris · Post by **Alchris** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:32 pm

Hey Cowtown;

Welcome to the forum. Now there are 3 of us from Alberta.

Is the Trachy near a forced air heat vent? Does the water pour out the bottom of the pot immediately and does the dish the pot is sitting in have standing water in it?

IF hot dry air is flowing over the pot you could be overheating the roots. Or the top inch of soil will dry out while the rest is wet. If the water is pouring out the bottom quickly, you may only be watering a small section of the soil. If peat moss dries out it will not easily absorb water. You would need to leave the pot submerged in standing water for several hours to saturate the soil before letting the water completely drain out of the pot. I would use room temperature tap water that has been left out 24 hours to allow the chlorine to evaporate.

I have seen black plants before and it is usually from overwatering. But usually most of the plant is black or turning black.

Allen

Cali-wanna-b · Post by **Cali-wanna-b** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:12 pm

Yeah, once a week is a lot for indoor palms. I was watering mine once every two weeks and still got some water damage.

Okanagan desert-palms · Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:48 pm

Welcome Cowtown. I think the problem with the Trachy is two fold.First you transplanted during winter in which the palm is going dormant.Transplant only in the spring or summer.Those roots might be rotting because they are not expanding in the new soil. Lack of light will make the lower fronds age prematurely. That is anything under 10 hours strong sunlght or 600 to 1000 watts of artificial overhead lighting. Spring should bring it around. You might want to try some epsom salts to green it up this April or May. Mix 1 tbs of epsom salts to 1 gal water. Apply once more in July. Hope this helps.

John

turtile · Post by **turtile** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:49 pm

Are you fertilizing the palm? It looks like it might be burning from too much.

Cowtown Palm Society · Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:03 pm

Thanks so much everybody for the warm welcome and advice!

Allen, lately, when I do thoroughly water, the water has been running through awfully fast. Not too close to forced air however, and I do let chlorine evaporate before watering. Pot is raised in dish, so it doesn't sit in water.

John, I think the transplant was mis-timed...I over estimated the amount of sunlight from this window (which has been less than 2 hours direct at darkest times of winter). I'll do that with the salts..hurry up spring! 11c (52f) today...which means absolutely nothing in Calgary where these temps are normal all year (so is -10 in April and May though)!

Other variables: no fertilizing since re-potting, maybe too much water?

Hopefully, my trachy will respond favorably to the outside in the spring...I'd sure like to see signs of growth before I push him in a Calgary spring though.

Anyways, thanks all...look forward to picking everyone's brains on these things!

Duncan

turtile · Post by **turtile** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 6:22 pm

I would try some fungicide/bactericide. The indoor climate with moist soil favors fungus/bacteria. Your palm looks very healthy so it shouldn't have much trouble recovering if it is being attacked.

Cowtown Palm Society · Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:14 am

turtile wrote:I would try some fungicide/bactericide. The indoor climate with moist soil favors fungus/bacteria. Your palm looks very healthy so it shouldn't have much trouble recovering if it is being attacked.

Sounds good turtile. Are there palm specific fungicides that I should use?

Thanks!

PS How did you fit that Weather Underground "banner" or "sticker" into your signature without exceeding the character limit?

turtile · Post by **turtile** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:44 am

I use Physan 20 mainly but I also use a type of Systemic fungicide (not sure of the exact chemical) and Copper Sulfate.

I only linked the image file for the weather banner.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:26 pm

Hi Duncan, welcome aboard!

Yup, once a week watering is too often in winter, even in a warm house.
BTW, if you have a cooler room, i.e. one that has a colder floor/over a garage, sunny, your Trachy would be happier.

It's often not as simple as looking at one or two fronds.
Maybe you could post a pic of the entire plant, including pot.
Barb

ps--Calgary has Spring?

EDIT: Duh! saw the first pic. Looks pretty darn good.
2nd EDIT: Jeez, too much coffee (bzzzzzt). Is the pot glazed or unglazed inside? Do you know where the pot was made?

Cowtown Palm Society · Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:32 pm

Hi Lucky1!

Thanks for the reply!

I don't know where the pot was made. It's not glazed though.

You think it looks okay, despite the lower black fronds?

I wish I did have such a room. My set up is not ideal for my hobby.

Thanks!

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:08 pm

Duncan,
The reason I asked about the pot is because your troubles started right after transplanting.

I got a set of pots years ago...from Vietnam I think (or maybe China).

Within 2 years of placing a 30+ year old Ficus benjamina into one of these beautiful pots, the tree was dying.
It took fully another year to die, while I frantically tried everything...gently!

I had that Ficus since it was a little stick.
It was again a stick, albeit a big one.

The only thing I didn't do was change the pot.

You've received some really good tips from the people on this forum...
Once spring hits (for sure)

put it in a sheltered area on the patio where it only receives morning sun.

In the interim, you could phone the Alberta Agriculture to see if they can recommend a tissue analysis lab (for those purplish black fronds).

Or contact the Botany dept of UofA.

Or a Master Gardener? the Uof Arizona had a great online Master Gardener manual a few years ago.

Keep us informed how it's doing, please.
Barb

Cowtown Palm Society · Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:50 am

Hi Barb,

Thanks for the tips!

Lots of good things to try. I hope it's not the pot!

Since I first posted on this topic I've noticed some tiny orange spiders all over the plant. I can see them dangling on their webs if the light is right. I bought some 3 in 1 fungicide/ insecticide/ miticide that I will apply tomorrow.

Can't wait for spring...when it comes for real...wait that's not till July!? grrrr.

Thanks!

Duncan

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:51 pm

Duncan, you've got good eyesight if you SAW spider mites!

On the few occasions I've seen them, used thumb and forefinger...squish, gone.

Keep them away by misting with room temp water, twice a day.
If you have chlorine in your tap water, let water sit in a bucket before use both for watering and misting.
Spray up from bottom of plant 'coz the little beggars hide underneath.

Let's follow this palm's progress, please let us know how it's doing.

PS--the spider mites are not responsible for the blackish colour.
And as spring gets nearer, on mild days put the palm outside in morning sun against a house wall, then back in p.m.
Trachys love it cool, and hate a hot dry house.
Barb

Cowtown Palm Society · Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:13 pm

Hi Barb,

I'll keep you posted and I'll increase the misting.

Can't wait to get him out of the hot/dry house!

Should I be waiting until we are past frost to put him outside, do you think? Most of the fun, for me, with these plants is pushing them in conditions that others won't sustain. I don't really want to lose them though either.

Thanks!

Duncan

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:44 pm

Hi Duncan,
I'm retired so I have the luxury

of dragging a few plants outside when it's +8 C, then back inside
a few hours later (not very long). But only with (Trachys / nanitals etc. )into an area that's sheltered from cold winds (never a north side) this time of year.

The best days to pick are those when your heating's off (sunny day), so not a huge variable between temps.

But if you're likely to get busy and forget they're outside, better wait until spring

Barb

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:45 pm

Hi Duncan,
I'm retired so I have the luxury

of dragging a few plants outside when it's +8 C, then back inside
a few hours later (not very long). But only with (Trachys / nanitals etc. )into an area that's sheltered from cold winds (never a north side) this time of year.

The best days to pick are those when your heating's off (sunny day), so not a huge variable between temps.

But if you're likely to get busy and forget they're outside, better wait until spring

Barb

PalmsNorth.com

Help with my Trachy Fortunei

Help with my Trachy Fortunei

Trachy troubles