California live oaks

[desertdave]

Anyone growing Quercus chrysolepis (canyon live oak), Q. agrifolia (coast live oak), or any western live oak outside of its native range, esp. in a cooler-winter climate? I am growing Q. chrysolepis in Boise right now. I have several 2 year old seedlings (6" - 15" tall) outside, trying to see if they are hardy here. It will be interesting to see if they made it through the single digit weather in the last few days.

[Okanagan desert-palms]

Dave what else have you tried Palms, Yuccas, Cactus ect. I think Boise ID. is zone 6 semi desert same as Kelowna B.C. I sure would be interested in any thoughts with your trials?
Regards, John

[desertdave]

I personally have not yet tried any palms, etc. There is a species of yucca that is quite hardy here and is relatively common, with a few in my yard. I don't remember what species it is but it is not a trunking yucca. However, I have seen something that looks frighteningly like a Yucca elata in Boise, standing about 4 feet tall. It has been there as long as I remember. Then again, there are the now famous Trachys in Nampa, which, btw, seem to have survived, showing mild to moderate damage a month later but with the spears looking healthy.

Yes, Boise is, according to the USDA in 1990, a zone 6b, with the lower lying suburbs 6a. The AHS map showed much of the area in zone 7. The overall climate is a somewhat Mediterranean semi-desert (I actually saw this area listed as a Koppen Csa climate on a climate map). The last 15 winters have been quite mild (the coldest I have seen since Dec. 1990 was 0 F on 1/1/1999, since then 7 in Jan. 2004 and 8 last month). 12/23/1990 was -25 F here, for reference. Global warming? Urban heat island effect? Good luck? Who knows...

Anywho, some of the other more tender plants that grow here include giant sequoia (Sequoiadendron giganteum) and silktree (Albizia julibrissin). I have even seen a few Southern magnolias planted recently in town. So far this winter, my cypresses and live oaks seem to be happy. They survived last month's cold spell and are enjoying the heavy rain the last few weeks.

[DesertZone]

The yucca sp. that you see the most of in Boise is y. Filamentosa, But there is several large specimens of Y. Recurvifolia, Y.Gloriosa, and a few of Y. Elata, Y. Thompsoniana, Y. Rostrata. I did see a few agaves as well.
I don't recall seeing any palms when I was over there, but I am always looking when I go over there

[DesertZone]

Dave can you post some pics of your live oaks

[desertdave]

You asked for it, here they are! My canyon live oaks (Quercus chrysolepis) and italian cypress (Cupressus sempervirens). I took these pics about 3 days ago. The oaks have taken two winters, the cypress one, including this December's inversion, with the two coldest nights reaching down to 7 F and 8 F! I apologize for the picture quality; I am still learning how to use my camera phone.


The Italian cypress, yearling, about 6" tall


The taller chrysolepis, 2 years old, about 15" tall


The shorter chrysolepis, also 2, about 8" tall

[DesertZone]

Nice pics Dave
Where did you get the italian cypress? I think I might try one of those

[desertdave]

from seed. I ordered the live oak seed from Sheffield's (www.sheffields.com), a dealer from upstate New York, two winters ago. The cypress seed I ordered from Whatcom Seeds (www.seedrack.com), out of Eugene. Sheffield's seed has always given me luck, Whatcom's are more iffy. Where are you at? From what I read the Italian cypresses probably are not reliably hardy below 0 (maybe even 5), but you may have a good microclimate in your yard. Also to consider, some sources actually rate Arizona cypress (C. arizonica) hardy to zone 5, so that may be worth a shot as well. There are even columnar cultivars of C. arizonica around some of the nursery catalogs.

[DesertZone]

How hard was it to start the Italian cypresses seed I know that they might not make it, but that is what we are all about I have seen large ones in very cold weather in southern Nevada. Say around 0 F, but was very breif. Those same trees there are doing fine today.

I try eveything that appeals to me. My first joshua trees did not make it either, but I am glad I kept trying

[desertdave]

Yah it would definitely be fun to try. What I did was just soak the seed for a day or two, then cold stratify for about a month. Then pull them out to germilnate. If I remember correctly, they should sprout in two to four weeks after stratification. I only got about 4 or 5 (out of 25) to sprout but remember I also got the seed from Whatcom (www.seedrack.com). Their seed is not always the best but I would probably still buy from them again. I ordered some CIDP seed from them at the same time as the cypresses and about 30-40% of them germinated, while some seed I got from a friend in Portland (I do not know where he got them for sure, as CIDP's do not seem to handle Portland winters... Too bad, PDX would look awesome with CIDP's!) had about 80-90% germination.

I was told once, if we do not try to grow it, we do not know if it will (or won't) grow here. Keep me updated! I will also keep the board updated on my experimentation with them. I would love to have success with them here; they look so much better than those dang arborvitae!

Other stuff: I found something that looks like a yucca or an agave today here in Boise. I will upload a pic soon to see if anybody could identify it.

[DesertZone]

I can't wait to see the pics

You seem to be good at starting things that take cold stratification. Maybe this summer we cold do some trading? I am looking for Idaho's native Pinyon pine (Pinus Monophylla). I have tried to grow them from seed but with no success . There is some other things you grow that I would like to try. Like one of your Live oaks

[desertdave]

My talent at cold stratification probably originated with the first trees I started growing from seed. The second species I grew from seed was northern red oak (the first was silver maple, no stratification needed!). This was well before I got started on subtropical and warm temperate species. I usu. just put the soaked seed in a baggie with wet peat moss (some people prefer vermiculite, perlite, or even sand, but I have had no luck with sand) and put it in the vegetable crisper in the refrigerator. To this day, as well as warmer climate species, I still start a lot of oaks (incl. California and temperate oaks), walnuts, sweet gum, sugar maple, etc.

Where would a good place be to find some pinyon seed? I have not tried that yet but would love to. One of my major emphases is trying to introduce dry-climate species into Treasure Valley landscapes, and pinyons being a desert pine, that would be a great project. Maybe I should start a dry climate gardening community, maybe call it "Beyond Sagebrush"... lol

[DesertZone]

I do start some things with the cold statification method. But Most of my time I am starting cactus, yucca, etc. And not to mention that I was never very good at it in the first place

I think it is cool that You are tring to get people to think above the normal "landscape" . I have a very similar mission With the water shortage I think it will be very important for people to rethink what they do with thier landsapes. We live in a very dry climate here and need all the help we can get

There is only one place in Idaho that I know of where a guy/girl can get Pinyon pine seed from and that is South Central Idaho. Head south of Albion into the City of Rocks Area and they are mixed in with the Junipers, just look for the bluer of the two, these will be the Pinyons
Also if you have any Limber Pines, I would love to trade/buy for them as well. They also have a "pine nut". they can be found around Craters of the Moon area.

[desertdave]

I found some Pinus monophylla on the previously mentioned Sheffield's (www.sheffields.com). It is 2004 vintage seed from Utah, and $4.95 for about 51 seeds.

[DesertZone]

Good find I hope to see more people use this one in thier landscapes, good wild life plant If I don't go down there this spring I might order them, Thank You

[desertdave]

Limber pine (Pinus flexilis) is actually becoming somewhat popular in the Boise area. I do not know a lot about the species except that it grows more slowly than the western white pine (P. monticola) that it resembles to an extent. I am guessing that it may be more tolerant of heat than the Idaho state tree as well, possibly contributing to its popularity here. Home Depots around here actually sells a cultivar called "Foxtail Pine". I don't remember the varietal epithet, but it is a P. flexilis.

P. flexilis, to my memory, is also native to the SE mountains and the Owyhees. It from what I understand (I have never been up in the Owyhees, except on US 95 to Reno) is the main pine in the Owyhees, growing above the juniper/chaparral zone.