Winter protection pics.........

JackLord · Post by **JackLord** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:59 pm

sashaeffer wrote:Yea, I was thinking that. Don't want to worry about yet another tropical plant to bring inside or over winter. Was cool to see though.

Join the club. I have multiple obsessions.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:40 pm

Mr. Lord sure has that "bang on"

Very finicky palms

After babying mine with red/blue lights all winter, a little too quick into the sun, and presto...almost fatal sunburn. AAARGH!

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:18 am

Getting a start on my over wintering of my wind mill palm outside. I will try and over winter this palm, and keep others in garage while I experiment since this will be my first attempt. I have a 9ft heat tape that goes under, and around the root ball and wrapped around the base of the plant. I will leave that there all the time. Using 3/4 pvc building a frame around the plant. PVC tubes in the ground will stay there as well all year so all I have to do is simply add the rest every fall. The pvc fits tight together, so don't have to use pvc cement, then as plant grows I can simply just add more pvc to structure and side support.

I will be using either Christmas lights, OR a single 20? 40? watt light bulb inside the structure along with wireless thermometer so I can watch, and adjust bulb strength if needed. Lastly, on angled part I will attach a clear plexiglass panel to allow sunlight(faces south), allow for moisture run off and will allow me to access the inside of the plant area to change bulb, or check on things easily.

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:49 pm

How will you cover it?

I am not sure that will be sturdy enough.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:08 pm

Hardyjim. It seems pretty sturdy as it is, but I plan on adding a method of support for straps if I need to. Where it is along the garage it doesn't get a lot of strong winds etc. I will wrap it in both plastic and bubble wrap. I will surround the base with bags of leaves as well to be on the safe side.

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:55 pm

I like making things out of PVC and so appreciate this.
Having it by the garage should help; if in doubt, you could probably attach it to the garage in some way so it doesn't blow away.

wxman · Post by **wxman** » Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:01 pm

No ... no ... no ...

1. It's too small. Yes, you can add height, but the palm also gets wider with age. This looks very tight for this year, let alone successive years.

2. It's not nearly sturdy enough. Cold + PVC = breakage. Especially with small diameter like 3/4". I bet a 10-15 mph wind will snap that in two when it's 10 degrees outside.

3. Disturbing the rootball this late in the season to add heat tape was a bad idea. You definitely cut and severed roots digging down below the surface of the soil. The palm will now be entering winter stressed. Windmill palm roots can easily take slightly frozen soil. My soil freezes around the palm each winter and it comes back just fine. I use a space heater set at 40F to heat the enclosure. No heat below soil at all.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:02 pm

All 4 corners are 18inches buried in the ground and rock solid. I will leave them in when I take the rest down in the spring.

Also, if for some reason it did look like wind would be a issue I can easily add steel fence posts next to it for added strength and/or use stakes in the ground along with ratcheting straps.

Again, this is in a pretty protected area.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:17 pm

I had just planted this plant like a month ago, so was still easy to dig up. Roots looked good, and was amazed that they seemd to have tried to expand beyond the original containment.(pot it came in) The heat tape idea was from the book "Palms won't grow here".

If this plant makes it through the winter ok, then I may add larger diameter PVC for strength. I'm not worried about winds where it's at.

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:04 am

You can add some wire fencing like in the last pic
I posted of my enclosure to make sure the plastic
doesn't flap in the wind.

I know it's next to the house but I don't think there
is any side of a house that won't see wind during a winter/storm.

Error on the side of it being to strong

,one of the other
things Francko mentions in his book is the difficulty of
trying to reinforce your protection when there is -20F
windchill out there,trust me I have had to do it a few winters
ago when the temp bottomed out at -18F !

You would be surprised how relentless the wind can be
at destroying your best efforts.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:18 am

Oh, I'm sure!

I have thought too about adding more support PVC between vertical tubes, as well as steel fence posts on both sides to have there "just in case" Don't want to have to pound them in the ground when it's that cold out. We have Loess soil here, so normally isn't hard to pound stuff into the ground, but when it's frozen? it's like any other soil.

If this works, I'll plant one of my big plams in the ground(it's there now, but pot is buried and going to pull up and over winter in garage) It's next to a small pond by my front door and will take full force of any winter wind so will use bigger PVC and I may shape it in a triangle form so there is no flat side facing to the north. I have limited room there because of the pond on one side, driveway on another, and sidewalk on yet another.

It's too tall even in the ground to use standard 4ft fencing like you have, so have to think big right away.

Have you seen some of the winter protection that Cocoanut Mike uses in Montreal? I don't know how he keeps the plastic on his stuff as his protection boxes don't look like they have much support.

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:10 pm

I've used steel t-posts pounded into the ground to make sure protection sructures don't blow away. They come in lengths to 8' and so can be used for medium sized palms.
This photo shows how I used them to make sure protection didn't blow over. This palm got winds >70 mph in every blizzard and these steel posts held up. (Palm itself died, so don't copy the protection itself...).

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/u ... site"><img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-nL3w ... AG0423.jpg" height="640" width="383" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/terdalfarm ... ">December 2010</a></td></tr></table>

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:35 pm

That is too bad about the palm! what did you surround it with as protection? bubble wrap? wood wall?

Thanks for sharing the pic.

Jane_Whitt · Post by **Jane_Whitt** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:30 pm

Preparing your palm tree for winter
There are many ways to prepare the palm tree for the winter. Many of these preventive measures can help minimize damage to the palm through the harsh winters harsh. Some very quick simple tips are:

LOCATION: If you are about to plant or transplant your palm, the palm will have a better chance to put in the right area. When planting the palm tree to decide on an area that receives full sun and a place that will not get much wind, and behind a wall or a fence or in a sheltered patio. Surrounded by lush palm other recommended because it is more likely to be less exposed to strong winds and cold, wet weather. Naturally, all the foliage a little heat emitted thereby creating a warmer atmosphere over the winter.

COVERAGE: palm tree mulch with 3 "- 6" of mulch will not only help protect the tender roots that are feeding well near the surface from freezing. The mulch will also improve and add appeal to the look of your garden or patio. They also retain moisture and warmth of the palm to reduce the need for irrigation. Fertilizer for palm trees will also decrease, due to the retention of nutrients held in the mulch. Mulch helps prevent weed seeds from germinating, reducing the need to grow.

Fertilization: Fertilization right of palm tree in late summer and early fall, can help promote and ensure the palm is still strong and healthy through the winter season. For best results fertilize in fall, because the active growth of the palm has slowed. Instead of putting on new foliage growth, the roots of your tree or palm palm set to take nutrients from the soil, rather than growth. Excess nutrients are stored in the roots and available when needed for new growth after winter has passed.

TREATMENT: Treatment of the palm with a copper fungicide spray prevents the disease set as bacterial leaf spot. Spray copper fungicide is extremely weatherproof, treatment of the palm before they reach freezing temperatures can provide protection and prevent damage from freezing cold light, ensuring that your green leaves stay green.

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:11 am

Sashaefer,
Again, don't copy what I did--didn't work. You can get much better advice here!
With that caveat:
I laid several 2-litre water bottles on the ground near the base; my theory is that residual ground warmth would keep them from freezing. I had cinder blocks and logs around the base. I sprayed the trunk with fungicides, then wrapped in burlap (hessian). I then had hay around for insulation. The large trash can you see in the background was put over top for rain, snow or strong wind; it was removed for nice weather (most of last winter was sunny and mild). I also pulled the hay away for nice weather to let it all dry out.
The cinder blocks and logs were necessary to raise the trash can up high enough as it grew last year (2010).
The t-posts anchored the trash can so it didn't blow away.
This system worked great through January and I think would have worked fine if it wasn't for that cold blast in February, especially Feb. 10 when it was famously "colder than the south pole" here (-21.7 F).
Take home: heat your palms! Heated palms, even with just a little heat (pipe heat tape) made it. Palms without out heat? Not so much. Two of three unheated windmills palms died; the two heated "Waggies" made it just fine even though they got minimal heat. Of the three unheated needle palms, one died, one died to ground but pups survived and one did alright. (All protected like this windmill).
To repeat: heat your palms! It is like watering them when it is 110 F and windy. You just got to do it.
--Erik

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:07 am

TerdalFarm,

The one larger windmill I have planted on the south side of my garage so will get a lot of winter sunlight as I have built already a PVC enclosure that as colder weather arrives I can spur of the moment run out and wrap it up in plastic and bubble wrap.

The palm is new, and about 3 foot tall I found on clearance for $25. I buried a 9ft section of heat tape at the base, and all around the root ball with enough out the top to wind around the crown a couple of times. I will leave that in the ground all the time. For the winter I will add some christmas lights like I've seen others do and plug them into a thermocube.

One last thing I will do for extra measure(I've seen banana's done this way)is to fill trash bags with leaves and surround the base of the structure with them as a type of wind break.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:42 am

I got this baby windmill for free, and has been in the ground all summer and seems to like it better than the ones of same size in 3 gallong pots.

Adding heat tape around the outer root ball, and will mulch heavy, and add layers of screen, and plastic barrel cut in 1/2 for more protection. We'll see if it makes it through the winter.

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:12 am

I'm very interested in your use of the pipe heat cable around the roots. The theory makes sense, although I have not done it myself (soil doesn't get nearly as cold down here...).
As short as that one is, you may be fine with good insulation and cover. As it gets a trunk taking the growth point up, you'll have to heat up high, too. (IMHO)

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:30 am

If palm makes it through this winter and gets some height over the next year or two then I can use a 9footer like my other windmill. May use christmas lights in the future as well, but I want to "train" this palm to accept cold from the beginning so will use minimal protection methods/

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Winter protection pics.........

t-posts for wind

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