PalmsNorth.com

I think you all know I know nothing about cycads. I like them, but have put off getting into them as I feel there so is so much about palms to figure out first.
My wife has two sagos. They live in pots in the winter and she asks me to plants them each Spring. I always grumble but agree as she indulges me in to many other things. Besides, the Tulsa Zoo has done that for years and their sagos look fabulous (OK, they also have a horticulturist with 20 years of experience...). Every year, we get one or two flushes of new leaves and the trunk grows a bit.
Not this year. One had a tiny flush (just three new leaves) but is otherwise basically OK. The 2nd looks terrible. No flush. Leaves are turning yellow. I've been fertilizing it and watering it. It is in full sun, next to a newly planted Phoenix roebellini in the same soil area which has been doing great. (Not that they are related, but it means at least something can grow there).
any suggestions?

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--Erik

Did the Sago go from shade to full sun? They love full sun but when I move them from shade to sun they typically blanch out (at least partially). I know y'all have had some wicked heat!

Erik, Looks like it has been having trouble re establishing itself in the ground this year, the root system may not have expanded enough to support the size of the plant.
Did it go through any trauma last winter? I would trim the leaves, dig it up and and containerize it till it recovers.
Check the roots out, hopefully no rot, and nothing has been chewing on them.


Steve

Thanks, both of you.
Penny, it went from indoors to partial sun to the ground in full sun. tough, but it did that every other year + the other sago did too this year. Still, this is a hard summer for lots of plants.
Steve,
it seemed to have a fine winter in the "ballroom" but when I planted it the root mass seemed unusually small. So, my guess is you are right: too little root mass for too much sun/heat.
I think I'll dig it up, pot it, and give it 18 months to recover. How does that sound? --Erik

Oh dear...

Probably hates the soil? when you repot it, use good potting soil (none from the garden).
I'd keep it in only morning sun when in the new pot.

My two sagos are temperamental, nearly lost them both at various times.
Yours should come back with some TLC.

Barb

Thanks. No, I won't reuse soil from that part of the garden. It has the worst of my generally good soil. I'm actually a bit surprised by how much the Phoenix roebellini has liked it. --Erik

I cut off all of the leaves on my potted sago in spring/early summer if they leaves are looking ugly. I then fertilize it and in 1-2 months it puts out a new set of leaves. I have done this for Cycas revoluta and Zamia furfuracea with good results.

Do you see any scale on the plant? On the in ground plants older leaves will yellow especially if they have scale damage on them.

Good question. I had not thought of that.
I didn't see any scale, but may not have looked closely enough--remember, these aren't "my" plants.
I cannot imagine scale surviving the weather we have now, but they may have infected it at the beginning of summer when we were cooler and very wet. That is when it started its decline. --Erik

Erik
Barb mentioned that sagos are tempermental and heres a good example. I have about 10 "pups" that I recently pooted up in 1 g containers recently. They all had great root systems and were doing great in a fairly shaded location. I decided to move them to a partially-shaded spot to slowly get them used to more sun. Within two days of moving them, almost all starting getting discoloration in some of the leaves! I quickly moved them back into more shade and they seem to be fine. I guess I will have to move them about 1 inch farther into the sun every day! (NOT!!!). Crazy plants but I love them.

Erik, To me, it seems the larger Sago's take about a year in ground to properly establish themselves.
It might be worthwhile to find a couple larger containers to leave them in year round, or maybe pot plant them each year so a basic rootball is left intact.
Wes, (Kansas), does that each year. Haven't seen him around lately, but the last I knew it was working out well.

As warm as it is, if you trim & pot it up now, will probably trigger a flush, good luck with them!


Steve

I think I recall Barrie saying some time ago he piled cow manure around the sides of the bulb to trigger a flush. I never tried it though.

Sorry about the sago Erik! It will come back though.

Bill

Erik, if it is scale, Tom Broome recommends coffee grounds (dried, cold).
Liberal application on the soil and even up the caudex.

Swears by it, especially for field planted sagos.

Somewhere here, there's even a photo montage of his excellent work with coffee grounds.

And yes, cutting fronds off will generate a flush but lots of water is needed.

Barb

Erik,
if yours needs some company in the Ugly Sago category, I'll offer this:



The next one is fine...go figure!



The above proves I'm no expert, but:
Lots of sun = lots of water
Half sun = half the water

Good luck with yours.
Barb

Barb,
very reassuring.
I have been busy with work, and it is too darn hot to do anything more strenuous than water when I get home.
We should cool down to merely the mid-90soF Sunday so maybe then. I have a bag of miracle grow cactus/palm soil handy. Don't have any real pretty pots but I have dozens of old pots tossed in a back barn to choose from.
--Erik

Erik-if it is scale-

you can also make a "tea" of the coffee grounds
and spray it on the plant directly- make sure you strain it well-(coffee filter)because
it will destroy/clog a sprayer.

Erik, Asian scale would make your plant look like it was covered in snow, some photos at this link.

http://www.plantapalm.com/centralfl/asi ... _scale.htm

Common brown scale will sometimes show up on Sagos, just check the bottom of the fronds.



Here is Tom's article on using coffee grounds,

http://www.cycad.org/documents/Broome-Coffee-2007.pdf



Steve

I have the evening unexpectedly free so I thought I'd update some of my old threads.

I potted up the yellowing Sago and cut off most of the fronds. I kept these three as they had some yellow. The root mass was less than it should have been, but the roots that were there seemed healthy enough so I didn't trim them.

I re-potted in Miracle Grow palm/cacti soil (i.e., fast draining). I also gave it Dr. John's root therapy (IBA, etc.). I've kept it watered but it drains well. It gets quite a bit of sun, but afternoon shade from a shade cloth (part of my "summer protection").

It has not flushed, but the little spines (I don't know the name) are still pliable so I have hope.

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Just so you know I can grow Cycas revoluta, here is the sibling of the sad Sago.
It made a little flush of just three leaves early in Summer, then nothing. At least it stayed mostly green.
Recently, it has started a nice flush of 10-12 leaves

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Knnn wrote:Erik, To me, it seems the larger Sago's take about a year in ground to properly establish themselves.
It might be worthwhile to find a couple larger containers to leave them in year round, or maybe pot plant them each year so a basic rootball is left intact.
Wes, (Kansas), does that each year. Haven't seen him around lately, but the last I knew it was working out well.

As warm as it is, if you trim & pot it up now, will probably trigger a flush, good luck with them!


Steve

Still here Steve LOL. I just don't have a camera so I just don't visit the site much any more. Anyways.....
Yes, my cycads do VERY well with my "pot planting" deal every year. If I had a camera I would show pics, but my......
2 1/2' Tait looks great
2 1/2' Spinulosum LOOKS FANTABULOUS!!! OMG, you all should see it!!
2 smaller Spinulosums look GREAT.
But this thread is about Revoluta and those did something wierd this year. Usually the flushes are pretty wide. Well this year, the numbers of leaves was about the same (10-12 leaves) but they didn't spread out much or grow very long. I have attributed that to the fact that they are in full Sun and didn't have to look for light.

Now for that Revoluta in the pic earlier in this thread, I hate to say it, but if you pulled it up and the root mass was not big, that tree looks like it is done:-(
I hope I am wrong, but in my past experience, it looks like it got root rot from too much water.

Wes,
I'll do the pot-planting thing next year with the healthy sago.
As for the sad sago, I agree it had root rot (a big problem for me this year) and probably won't make it, but as with my dying Butia I figured I was going to have to dig it up anyway so why not just do it now vs. later. --Erik

Erik,
When you pot up the sad sago, cut off ALL the leaves (those yellow leaves are going brown now anyway).
Lots of patience is needed with cycads (sagos in particular).

It'll come back gangbusters next year when you put it in MORNING sun, and fertilize/water.
Don't overwater this winter, and keep it coolish (remember it has no leaves).
The coffee grounds are a great idea.

Barb

Erik
Don't give up on it! I've had "pups" bigger than the one you have that lived without any roots for months before starting to grow new ones. Apparently the cycads can survive for quite a long time on food stored in the trunk. I've had many that I thought were ready for the trash heap and suddenly they would start to reroot and flush. I'd hang on to it for a while.

Penny,
what is your opinion on whether or not to cut off the three fronds I left--the ones with a tiny bit of green left? --Erik

Erik
At this point it probably doesn't matter one way or the other. One expert I read after said when he is trying to establish a new plant from a pup he cuts off all fronds (even green ones). He will also cut the whole bottom off to establish a new rooting base. I tried this on plants this spring and had good success. I would feel better about your odds if this was spring and not fall. At this point the plant is not going to grow much anyway.

If the 3 leafs are still intact, pull one down and see if the leaf base pulls away very easliy from the trunk. If it does, it's a goner. If it doesn't pull away from the trunk at all, you might be alright.
Also, If you can take the tree by the trunk and easily shake it out of the soil, it means you have no root growth and its a goner.

Kansas,
I am already in bed but as I read this I ran out into the dark (I'm approx. the same lat. and long. as you) and the still warm air to do your tests.
Pass! All three fronds I did not cut are firm. Trunk is firm in soil.

Just in case, the "happy" sister sago (photo above) is filling out a whooping 15 fronds in its late flush, so I'll have at least one sago left to kill in 2011....
--Erik

than I think you will be in luck. If you bring it in for the Winter, Keep in the dry side and lot's of sun thru a window. Then Mid March, get some old cow manure and mix it in the soil and water well. By at least mid May, you will see a new flush

The dying sago palm is flushing now!
It spent the winter in the cool (low about 32 F) storage room we call the "ballroom."
It has been outdoors in sun for about a month with generally warm weather (lowest it has seen lately about 27 F). I've watered it with filtered tap water with miracle gro mixed in.
Its twin, which did well last year, is in the background. I think it is getting ready to flush as well.

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See Erik,

I got one too only now it looks worse



It won't flush this year now but..........I have one that has flushed three new fronds, and its producing five pups.

How cool is that?

I left my two Sagos in their pots this year, thinking that they did not like the transplant shock of coming out of their winter pot into garden soil.
No good. Both are yellowing now. The healthier of the two never even flushed once.
Frankly, I'm giving up. I'll stick 'em both in the ground and leave them to the farm buyer (assuming we get one).
I bought two little coontie palms and stuck them in the ground. Both are flushing well and very green and happy. I'll dig them up and baby them in pots.
So, I'm not giving up on cycads--just Cycas. I am now a Zamia fan.

It seems to be give the palms more time,

Yours may not flush for anything up to two years.

Don't give up Terdal, I did that with my Trachicarpus f and should have waited. It pulled all the spears but was'nt soft orangy at all and I whizzed it.

I then saw most advice is wait, next time I will.

Good luck Terdal!