PalmsNorth.com

Hi friendly Palm Lovers,

UI need somwe help, and I was hoping someone can offer it. I have a two or three year old Windmill Palm I bought last June. I planted it in the ground here in Chicago immediately. It did GREAT all summer with the exception of some slight frond damage due tyo the darn wind.

In November, I put it in a big pot, using the same soil, for fear that if the weather got to cold or windy, I could move it to safer ground. It continued to do well until recently. The fronds are still green, but they feel dry an have curled inward. It does have a new frond that was coming out, and it is doing the same, although the plant is still alive. I tried a small amount of water, but it didn't help.

I must mention two things, it is now in the garage to avoid the strong winds, and I have it wrapped slightly with plumbers heat tape to keep in warm on extreme cold nights. The palm is located right in front of the garage window.

Do these Palms have a dormant period up north or is there something I can do to bring it back to good health ?

Thanks for any good advise.
GaryChicago
gthomas76@hotmail.com

How tall is the palm?

I left my 7 foot in the ground. Put up winter protection around it. Have a 3 footer in a pot that i took to work and placed in my office by the window and a 2 footer that I took downstairs and put in my work room with some sun lamps that turn on every morning at 7 a.m.

Is your garage getting down below freezing at night. Soil may be freezing and keeping the palm from getting any water. Also it may be in shock from the transplanting.

a pic would help if you have one

Gary, welcome to the forum!

Agree probably transplant shock from digging up and potting.
But my next guess (a close second) is that it is drying out (heat tape???)
My fronds that will fold inward when it hasn't had enough to drink...once or twice a year during extreme heat.

What's the low temp for your garage? Mine is usually 5 to 7 degrees warmer than outside.
I would take the heat tape OFF (it shouldn't touch the stem), mist each frond with cool (not cold, not warm) water spray, but not so much it's dripping. Including the unopened new spear.

If the fronds open up a bit by the next day, it was water.
Keep misting each day (in the a.m.) unless it's below freezing in there.

I sincerely hope the heat tape hasn't cooked the stem...
Can you post a picture?
Barb

How low of a temperature did the palm go through while in the pot? The roots are much more sensitive to cold than the rest of the plant since they are naturally warmer. When you place it in a pot, it exposes the roots to the cold and quick temperature change that the plant would not naturally experience.

When the leaves fold, it is the plant preventing water loss by decreasing the exposed surface area. The plant is either dry or the root system or some other part that conducts water is dead (which likely means it will be dead in the future). It could also be a bacterial problem as a result of the cold damage and the warm temperatures in the garage w/ heat tape.

Thanks for all the great feedback. I took the palm out of the pot, moved around the soil alittle bit, and put it back in the basement with no heat tape. I am taking suggestions and appreciate all the help. I do have a nice grow light down there and it is relatively cool/chilly. My other palms are down there and doing well (Areca/Majesty.) I will try to take a photo, I need to use my friends cell phone...hopefully tomorrow!

Thanks everyone.

P.S. Yes, the garage was probably a FEW degree's warmer than outside. The heattape only warms up to 33 degree's. It turns on automatically at 31 degrees,
and turns off at 33 degrees. This way pipes never reach a freezing point. Yet, I have removed it, watered the plant and will mist it first thing in the a.m.

Thanks

Well, after spending the evening in the basement, with NO heat tape, the two larger fronds are still dry looking. Strangely, there is one that looks new. It has been growing out of the top of the trunk for several months and actually looks like it might be somewhat healthy. I really have to get a photo posted.

The trunk is not rotting or mushy, the frond growing out of the top of it looks to be o.k., but there are two longer fronds at the tip of like a 1 1/2 foot stem. Those two look pretty dry.

Unfortunately, When I first took the Palm out of the pot, there was about 2 inches of frozen dirt at the bottom. I have a feeeling the roots were to close to that frozen clump of dirt. I didn't have the heat tape all the way at the bottom of the pot. If I did, that dirt would have never froze. Everywhere else I had the heat tape had nice soil.

Ya see, the heat tape really doesn't get hot. I can touch it with my bare hands on a very cold day, and at BEST, I MIGHT be able to feel a slight warmth. It's actually the same stuff people use to keep their gutters from freezing up, and plumbers use it to avoid pipes from freezing in the winter. It only gets to
about 33 degrees, then the thermostat shuts it off.

This is my first year ( MAJOR Learning curve.) I just feel bad due to high hopes. I was looking forward to getting a 5 foot Windmill next spring. I don't know now. I need to learn to protect what I have first.

I hope it's not gone!

You folks really come to someones aid. I appreciate that! By the way, we just had our second snow...nothing major...maybe an inch, but my Yucca Rostrata is like a bulldog. It's holding up soooo well. I do cover is with a BBQ grill cover when it is snowing. Days it gets alot of sun! I love thhat little guy!

Gary, we'll keep our fingers crossed, especially after that second repotting.
Trachys are tough little beggars, good to learn on

You didn't say what temps you've been experiencing.
And a heat tape around the outside of the pot (not buried into the soil) would work too if it was staying in the garage (presume not a carport that's open).

And, you probably know that palms often take a long time to die, so IF it croaks, it may not even be something you've done. Could be related to treatment 4 or 5 months ago (frozen in transport, etc.)

Having said that, it's definitely not good when a frond feels crunchy, dry, sounding like crumpling paper when you gently squeeze a frond (or if it actually breaks when doing so).

Now that it's in your basement with your other palms, only time will tell.
If your basement's cool, say, not heated, then go easy on watering and provide light.
But if your basement's heated (like the rest of the house), it'll need watering more often.

We'll look forward to pics of it--and your other palms and the rostrata.
Barb

Thanks Barb!

Yea, I still have some hope. The basement has alittle heat, but it's not a finished basemeent, therefore, were not real concerned with it being super warm. It's probably in the upper 60's down there.

Outside, the Palm was in the garage, in a pot and the temps were probably fluctuating between 25 degrees to 35 degrees. It is a closed garage. The main reason I wanted it in the garage for the winter was beecause on the strong winds. I need to find a place in the yard that isn't so darn windy.

When I first got my Windmill in June, wouldn't ya know, a week later we had record breaking winds for the summer. Several of the fronds got damaged, bent, and were pretty battered up. I figured the garage for the winter would give it a chance to recoupe without real harsh elements.

Thanks for your help.

Gary,
Yup wind can do a lot of damage.
Several years ago I had just finished repotting my biggish CIDP, and we had a hell of a storm that night.
The next day, a few inches of the soil had settled (or blown away) and the palm was bent right over, with the top inch of roots exposed. Fortunately no woody (structural) roots had broken BUT I had to repot it because it could not be straightened by hand.

So I repotted it with the root ball crooked so that the palm was sitting as near vertical as possible in the pot.
Two years later, it's still a bit crooked.
I simply turn the "lean" into the wind now.

A palm planted too high in the pot is subject to a lot of rocking from the wind, just as bad as planted too deeply.

Trachies do hate wind so you're wise to find a leeward spot for it next summer.

Let us know how it's doing each week.
Barb

Gary,when you transplant a palm in cold weather(or warm weather for that matter)the roots get damaged,if you then expose it to cold weather and the roots get cold they(the roots) will begin to get mushy and this opens the door to infection,the only chance this palm has is to keep the roots warm,which you may be doing now by keeping it in the basement.Last year I bought 3 three foot tall fortunei,they arrived Nov 1, I planted one in the ground (soil temps in the low 50s)and left the other two on the porch,I figured they would develope some cold hardiness being on the porch,WRONG!this allowed the already shocked root system to go into rapid decline,the leaves were always closed(they never opened) and in late Feb I gave the spear a tug and it pulled out,4 months later!the other one I planted in the ground on March 1st within a few weeks the spear pulled on this too,I tried cutting down on the trunk but it died from the roots up.The only palm of the three that lived was the one I planted in the gound I kept this one dry,it went through lows down to 9F and as high as 90F before I removed protection.So,check the spear once a week and do not over water it keep it a little dry for a month or two,not dried out just a little on the dry side,Best results transplanting palms is when soil is warm,or you will need to provide warmth,I hope its not to late for this palm but it is a valuable lesson,one I don't want to have to learn again!GOOD LUCK!

Thanks HardyJim. Thanks to everyone. Well, the palm is in the basement and so far it has not appeared to get any worse. I don't know alot, but there is a spear coming out at the top of the trunk. it's about 8 inches long. I tug on it occassionally and it seems to be in there pretty strong. Also, there is a new frond growing out next to it. This frond didn't appear to get damaged. It's SLIGHTLY dry, but it's still not all dried out and curled in. I tug on it occassionally also, and it seems to be holding well. The other two taller fronds (about 18 inches long) are the dried out ones. Don't know if they'll recover. Someone told me NOT to cut them...(A) They may recover. (B) They said cutting them leaves the whole palm at risk because of how the nutrients flow thru the palm (something like that) I guess I'll just have to wait. When I brought it in the basement and took it out of the extremely cold soil, the roots appeared fine. They were strong, they didn't smell weird or anything. They just seemed like normal roots. Thanks for all the help !!!

Definitely a good sign that spear and newest leaf are vital,yea,don't cut any fronds off until they start to turn yellow.If you see any movement out of that spear your in buisness,keep it as warm as you can,hopefully those other leaves will open up but it may be that your palm has cut its loses.If the spear does pull down the road the next step is to apply fungicide and/or cut down on the trunk until you find green tissue but in these situations palms usually can it from the roots up,keep an eye on the newest leaf if it starts to close up too,the palm is probably in decline.If you have a windy spot you would like to grow a trachy in,try a T.wagnerianus,they laugh out loud at the wind no matter how hard it blows and may be the most cold hardy of all the trachys,if there is one that is"the most cold hardy"

Thanks HardyJim,

I heard Needle Palms are pretty darn hardy too. Where do you order your Palms from ? Any ideas ? I will be getting more this spring! I'd like to try out those Needle Palms!

Thanks
Gary

I pretty much order everything off e-bay,you can find some great deals.Needle palms are the most cold hardy,some of the sabals are pretty bomb proof too.
I like Collector palms and Palms wholesale,they are not the cheapest but always send qaulity.
I think mail order natives had 7g needle palms for $50 +$15 for shipping,they would need to stay inside and then adjust to being outside again before planting in late April at the earliest,don't order if lows are forecast to be below 20F during shipping time and make sure they mail them then.

Well folks, thanks for all your help, but my Windmill palm couldn't pull through. Everybody here had great suggestion, but I think it was to lat
The final idea, I believe, is that the ice killed the roots. I had the Heat Tape luightly wrapped around the truck and on some of the fronds, BUT I made the un-realized error of not putting the Heat tape UNDER the roots. Therefore, when i removed the plant from the pot, there was frozen dirt that the roots were resting on. The company that I dealt with told me to send it back, and they will replace for free. I learned a very valuable lesson.
On a better note, my Yucca Rostrata is doing FABULOUS here in Chicago. I can't believe this little trooper. I will attempt to post a pic. I hope I can figure it out.
This Yucca is amazing. It puts a smile on my face everytime I pull into the driveway.

Thank you to everyone for your help and interest. Nice community. Happy New Year.

P.S. In the process of trying to land a job at a radio station in San Antonio, Tex. If I get that job and move there,,,I have a feeling I will really be taking advantage of the climate with respect to my Tropical Plants.

Gary, great guarantee from the company.

Looking forward to that rostrata pic...those gorgeous plants make me smile too.

Good luck on that job...hey, there are radio stations in Seattle Washington too where TONS of Trachies grow outdoors

Barb

Where is that rostrata pic?
Barb