Palm Shelter

Alchris · Post by **Alchris** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:16 pm

I got my shelter for my inground and potted palms almost complete. Unfortunately a few things went wrong as I got ready to build the two shelters and a shed. As a result I was a day late starting and had my grandchildren visit with only 6 hours notice( my daughter phoned and said that she was coming for the weekend just before she left her house).

I love my grandsons but they always help me. Visualize the 3 of us assembling a stick built prefab wall. I start the screws for assembling the 2 x 4 frame, then hold the pieces together while the 8 year old uses the drill to sink the first screw. Then the 2 year old sinks the second screw. Everybody gets a turn, except grandpa. My wife and daughter are in the house chatting leaving me to supervise the boys. The 8 year old knows that sometimes you just wait to help. Not the 2 year old. He brings me boards and chewed up screws that I have discarded as well as tools that I don't need yet. It was very nice having them here but I was almost half a day behind schedule by noon on Saturday.

So the shed still needs a roof and doors while the 2 palm shelters need permanent roofs and one needs a window.

No pics yet. I will take some when the rest of the pieces are assembled.

Allen

macario · Post by **macario** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:20 pm

Good luck!! Hope to see your finished product soon. I just started pull out my shelter also and my kids are shaking there heads saying there not helping me this year. Thats what they think lol.

PALMETTOMAN · Post by **PALMETTOMAN** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:24 pm

Allen...I'm looking forward to your palmhouse pics...

I built a few semi glass/plastic 5X5's for our windmill palms..They'll go on once the temps dip below -5 or so..

Macario..post your palmhouse pics when its up please!!

Palmettoman Z6-Ajax, On

Alchris · Post by **Alchris** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:42 pm

Everything is fixed and I have pics. The wind that affected the lower mainland ripped off the front half of the large palm shelter's roof and knocked out the window. The winds were only gusting to 80-90kph but for some reason we got one blast from the east that knocked down 8 feet of my neighbors fence as well.

The front shelter from the street. This one is 4' high 10' wide and 6' deep. The window is made from double paned diffused acrylic and is 2' x 2'. The styrofoam is 3" thick 2' x 8' sheets.

Removing the roof by unfastening the bungee cords and unscrewing the corner supports, next pic, will allow this to be disassembled into 5 pieces in a couple of hours.

The top is hinged to allow me to open the top to give extra cool or warm air. I used 2 pairs of standard 3" hinges.

I have the Chamerops and Butia in the ground as well as the potted palms and cycads inside. Heating is provided by a 30' heat cable taped to copper pipe. I also have a remote temperature sender.

As you can see, some of the palms did not take to the widely swinging temps and the one Y. elephantipes that got sunburned in June didn't put out any new leaves since that time.

The rear palm shelter is 4' high 8' wide and 3' deep. It has no window and is not heated. I am trying to over winter 2 chinese fan palms as well as a zone 7 evergreen rhododendron.

I still need to deal with some of the spaces between the insulation and will do something temperary until permanent fixes can be done in the spring.

Allen

Kansas · Post by **Kansas** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 6:36 pm

RIGHT ON ALLEN!!!!!!
Nice work!
Your hired for next year.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:06 pm

Allen,
You've done a lot of work, nicely constructed.
Re gaps in insulation, how about a can of spray foam? Cheap, quick, easy.
I keep a can in my back pocket

trying to find where mice are coming in

Good idea about the copper pipe and heat tape...would there be a benefit placing it nearer the soil level?
And are you packing any leaves or loose insulation between pots?

Thank goodness that storm didn't do more damage than it did.
Barb

PALMETTOMAN · Post by **PALMETTOMAN** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:40 pm

nice shots allen!

good luck with your overwintering method..

PalmettomanZ6-Ajax, On

Alchris · Post by **Alchris** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:52 pm

Thanks for the suggestions Barb.

It is too cold for spray foam as it will not set up below about 7 C. Uncured foam was part of the reason that the window blew out.

The heat cable would probably benefit from being closer to the ground. I put the pipe in after the shelter was half built and didn't want to damage the fronds by trying to get it lower. I'll try it lower next year. The pipe is pushed 18' into the ground to help heat the soil.

I hadn't thought about insulating around the pots. The heating cable should keep the ground and air above 2 C for the winter. Insulating 2' into the ground should make insulating around the pots unnecessary.

Allen

macario · Post by **macario** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 4:23 am

Damn thats great you went all out!!

Alchris · Post by **Alchris** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:23 am

The heated shelter will get it's first test tonight as the temperature is supposed to get down to -16* C/1* F and stay below -6* C/22* F for 2 days.

Allen

Knnn · Post by **Knnn** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:35 am

Nice work with the enclosures

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:54 am

Didn't realize your copper pipe went into the ground, too.
You've put a lot of thought into it...very well conceived.
With a temp of 2C your plants will shrug off an Edmonton winter.
Barb

Dean W. · Post by **Dean W.** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:44 am

Allen,

Nice job! Where did you get all that styrofoam? I like the Flamigo effect.

Dean

Alchris · Post by **Alchris** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:20 pm

The styrofoam is an instock item at the Home Depot. It is used as an exterior insulation on concrete basements in our area. It is also treated to resist bacteria etc. that is in the soil. It is not fire retardent and is not as effective an insulator as the styrofoam sheets that are used inside walls or under siding. I drew a few stares as I loaded 19 sheets into my trailer.

I don't know if it is available in warmer climates.

The flamingo helps offset the boxy ugliness.

Maybe I should paint scenery on it for next winter.

OR sell advertising on it.

Allen

Alchris · Post by **Alchris** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:57 am

After 30 hours of below freezing temperatures, including a fully overcast day, the heating system is inadequate for my needs.

It did maintain a 11* C/19* F increase in temperature . Adding a second 30' 210 watt heating cable should keep the contents at -7* C/20* F or warmer when temperatures reach -30* C/-20* F.

I am off to Canadian Tire and Home Depot.

Allen

macario · Post by **macario** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:04 am

You should use one of those yllow halogen worklights that they sell at home depot. get a 200 watt one you will see a big difference!

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:42 am

Allen,
Good you were watching as soon as temperatures dropped.
How about adding a string of Chrismas lights at ground level inside the shelter? (most folks have an extra string or two).
As long as they're not LED lights, which emit only negligible heat.
Barb

Alchris · Post by **Alchris** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 12:52 pm

Thanks for the suggestion Macario. I want to avoid putting too much light inside the shelter as I want the palms etc. to be close to dormant and I am concerned with damaging anything directly inline with the light.

Barb, I got rid of all of our xmas lights and converted to LEDs last year. I wish I had kept some of the lights now.

I think that I will stay with a heat cable that I can attach to the underside of the copper pipe next fall. While it is another $50 it does have it's own thermostat and it will apply even heat throughout the shelter.

However, any and all suggestions are welcome. The forum's suggestions helped me to design the shelter and make it light and easy to access and take down.

Allen

PALMETTOMAN · Post by **PALMETTOMAN** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 1:54 pm

Allen...

With the temps that cold, I would suggest a small ceramic heater to keep your temps steady...

Palmettoman Z6-Ajax, On

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 2:04 pm

Allen, brrrr, it's gettin' darn cold!
Forecast for Friday is low of -13 ...

I also converted all the Christmas lights LED...like an idiot!
Wish I'd saved 'em.

Good luck with your shelter heating amendments.
Barb

Alchris · Post by **Alchris** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:53 pm

I'll check into one when I go shopping. I hope that they have thermostats that go down to under 40* F/5* C.

Barb, I can't believe that it would get that cold at your place this early. I thought that Edmonton was the only place that cold before Dec 1st.

Allen

PALMETTOMAN · Post by **PALMETTOMAN** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:58 pm

Allen & Barb ..I hope those cold temps don't come my way...it looks like the snow however is coming....driving will be hell!

I still have 5 or 6 potted hardy palms-butias, euro's and saw palmetto's in the ground so it will be a test to see how they stand up over the next 2-3 days of lows that may dip to -4C...

Macario..Thanks for the tip on the light..I'll pick one up for my garage greenhouse...

Palmettoman Z6-Ajax, On

Barrie · Post by **Barrie** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:35 pm

I know it's no comparison, but here's a shelter for my Washingtonia robusta (last year). A simple 2x2 frame (2x6 base) screwed together and 6 mil poly cover. I bungee cord the fronds together to save space and leave the back open for ventilation, closing it only during a cold snap. No heat is needed in the enclosure as it's never been cold enough to do damage. I have used burlap around the growth point during the coldest weather, removed as soon as the weather breaks.
Good luck with yours Allen! Keep us posted.

Cheers, Barrie.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:18 am

Allen, forecast for Friday now amended to -5 C.
Last nite at 9:30 pm it was -6 C ...

Barrie, that's a super shelter you have. And up against the house, more protected from wind so it doesn't need to be 2x4s.

palmettoman, so you'll post the first "palms in snow" pics this season?
Were they in the ground last winter?
Barb

Barrie · Post by **Barrie** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 11:29 am

Yes Barb ... it's in a very sheltered spot with big Rhodos around it. The shelter is about 18" from the siding and open on the bottom half for venting (closed during cold spells).
We had our first frost last night 30.1f (-1c). I'll be looking at my Ensete ventricosum 'Maurellii' which now has frosted leaves. I'll cut it back and cover it with an insulated box for the frosty weather.

Cheers, Barrie.

PALMETTOMAN · Post by **PALMETTOMAN** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:08 pm

Barrie..I have similiar palm houses for trachy palms..except...I have a ceramic heater's and spot grow lights which will kick in this evening...(-6C lows)...

Barb..My potted palms are hanging in after some sleet and the snow this am..These will stay out as far as I can push them covered with good old felt wrap and tarp and flood lights for heat @ night... My in ground palms are year #1...I'm trying to find a new photo server since image station looks like its toast..I'm looking forward to posting these for viewing...

Palmettoman Z6-Ajax, On

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:21 pm

Saw TO's morning rush hour on TV...man, wow. Our turn on Sunday I hear.

We've all been lucky with a nice long and mild fall.
Yourour palms will probably just shrug off the sleet and snow.

Jay (administrator) has a photo hosting website, maybe PM him (he said it was EASY).
I can't remember where the link was.

Looking forward to seeing those wintery pics

Barb

Barrie · Post by **Barrie** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:11 pm

"I have similiar palm houses for trachy palms...(-6C lows)..."

They should easily shrug off temps of that low without adding any heat. Save your energy bill for when the palm really needs it.

Cheers, Barrie.

Alchris · Post by **Alchris** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:55 am

Those wood and 6 mil plastic palm houses look a lot nicer than mine. I wish that I could get away with just them.

Barb, I'm glad that the weather is moderating. We were forecast for -20* C Sunday night. The forecast low has been reduced to -16* C and pushed back to Monday. If I can just get Barry to send a bigger Island High, maybe the cold snap will be delayed until after my grand niece arrives. Then I can drop her into the shelter and get her to plug the second Heat cable into the cord for the original so that I don't have to use another long extension cord. She is tiny and precocious for almost 3 and will do almost anything that 'paw paw 2' asks.

Allen

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:11 am

Allen, looks aren't important (form follows function).
And dead palms wouldn't add curb appeal next summer.

"...drop her into the shelter".

Two stepladders (one outside, one inside) should allow YOU in to check her work.

Thankfully, min. temps are moderating a bit.
Barb

PALMETTOMAN · Post by **PALMETTOMAN** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:33 pm

Thanks Barb..I'll drop Jay a PM this evening..I'm eager to post these pics!

Barrie..We hit 19F last evening and when I got out early this am my palm houses were at 53F (low heat and lights used)...

Your right...I'll save my electricity until when I really need it..

Palmettoman Z6-Ajax, On

Laaz · Post by **Laaz** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 4:29 pm

PALMETTOMAN use http://www.imageshack.us/ . Just click "browse" and find the file on your pc, click host it & wait for it to upload. Copy the "direct link" at the bottom & post the url here.

Okanagan desert-palms · Post by **Okanagan desert-palms** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:18 am

Great job Allen that should be fool proof protectiom for you. Look forward to seeing their progress.

John

Alchris · Post by **Alchris** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:00 am

It made it.

-19*C last night, with wind chills in the low -30*C's, and the shelter got to -2*C. The insulation on the shelter significantly reduces the wind chill effect. The only thing that I will have to worry about is periods below -20 with no sunshine which only happened 5 or 6 times last winter.

The Chamaerops and Butia should survive -10*C but I am not sure how cold the Cycas revoluta will stand. Every one of the plants is almost dry which should help.

Allen

Barrie · Post by **Barrie** » Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:41 pm

The worst part for you of all of this, is not knowing how things have fared until well into spring. Winter damage effects are often slow to materialize. Equally slow to recover.

Cheers, Barrie.

Alchris · Post by **Alchris** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:34 am

I know that It will take until mid summer next year to really tell how they did this winter. But I am going to try to be vigilant and make sure that the plants don't get much below -3*C.

I was surprised that -25*C and calm overnight resulted in a low of -3.1*C in the shelter. It is only 11:30 AM and the heat from the sun already has the shelter at 4*C. I may have to open the top later on today.

Allen

Alchris · Post by **Alchris** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:24 pm

I finally opened the top of the shelter today when the temperature outside reached -3*C.

No evidence of damage to the Yucca elephantipes, Cycas revoluta or other plants from the -5.5*C low temperature in the shelter on the December 1/07 weekend. Everything is still a healthy green and the window appears to be big enough.

I added a 75 watt heat lamp that I can plug in from the outside in the event that we get temperatures -30*C or colder.

I'll post a couple of pics in a day or 2.

Allen

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:43 am

Excellent, Allen.
Hope you get this approaching mild spell too.
Well above zero C and rain.

Who would've thought we'd need avalanche protection (off the roof) for our palms !

Barb

Alchris · Post by **Alchris** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 5:57 pm

Here are the pics.

If anything, the yucca look healthier than when I put them in the shelter.

Now all I need for them to look like this in April.

Allen

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:21 pm

All your work with the piping +auxilliary heat was worth it.
Well done.
Barb

PalmsNorth.com

Palm Shelter

Palm Shelter

shelter

palm houses

alleans palm covers

enclosure

protection

palm shelter

palm heat

palm house

palms and photos

Who is online