Bismarckia nobilis ~ Fresh Seed = Fast Germination
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- Knnn
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Bismarckia nobilis ~ Fresh Seed = Fast Germination
I thought this was interesting, The last batch I did took about 3-4 months to germinate.
on 9-10-07 received some fresh seed that had just been cleaned.
After a heated soak for two days they were put in the propagator at 90* - 100*
This is what I found today, 9-17-07
on 9-10-07 received some fresh seed that had just been cleaned.
After a heated soak for two days they were put in the propagator at 90* - 100*
This is what I found today, 9-17-07
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you are the man with the golden germination touch. nicely done. Love the Bismarckia.
Kent in Kansas
where it's cold in winter (always)
and hot in summer (usually)
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where it's cold in winter (always)
and hot in summer (usually)
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- Knnn
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Thanks!
This is a good example of the difference fresh seed can make.
( and why germination experiences can vary so widely )
90*/32C to 100*/38C does seem like the ideal temp for these.
( and why germination experiences can vary so widely )
90*/32C to 100*/38C does seem like the ideal temp for these.
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My experience has been that the warmer temps - between 90-95F - result in better and quicker germination of almost all species. I know thats a general statement, but seems you can't go wrong with warmer temps for germination. I ma getting ready to paly the germination game for the next few months. Fun just to watch the seedlings grow when its cold outside.
Kent in Kansas
where it's cold in winter (always)
and hot in summer (usually)
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where it's cold in winter (always)
and hot in summer (usually)
<object width="290" height="130"><param name="movie" value="http://www.wunderground.com/swf/pws_min ... sh&lang=EN" /><embed src="http://www.wunderground.com/swf/pws_min ... sh&lang=EN" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="290" height="130" /></object>
- Knnn
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Good Deal
I'll take a good look at them tomorrow, Have you had any luck with the Arenga seed yet?
I'll take a good look at them tomorrow, Have you had any luck with the Arenga seed yet?
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- Knnn
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Congrats on the Taitungensis seed!
The Arengas I've germinated in the past have taken 2-3 months, nothing yet on the others but they'll catch up
The Arengas I've germinated in the past have taken 2-3 months, nothing yet on the others but they'll catch up
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- Knnn
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Big enough now to pot up.
Need at least 12" containers to accommodate initial root development,I make mine from 6" PVC split in half and then taped together, this makes it a lot easier to tranplant later on.
A little larger one
( 2 years old this Summer)
Need at least 12" containers to accommodate initial root development,I make mine from 6" PVC split in half and then taped together, this makes it a lot easier to tranplant later on.
A little larger one
( 2 years old this Summer)
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I saw that conduit idea last year when I came out and I tried it and it worked like a champ. Not sure why I stopped other than it was a pain for me to cut it. However now at work, we got some "split duct conduit" and thats how it comes from the manufacturer. You just snap it shut and "tie wrap" it.
So I think I will try it again later with some stuff.
So I think I will try it again later with some stuff.
- Knnn
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Benjamin,
Thanks! These suprised me too, I wasn't expecting to see anything until next March.
With most of my Palms in containers, the ones with deep roots can present some problems. Not having room for a bunch of 20 gallon containers, I have been lifting these a bit when potting up. ( only at the seedling stage )
As an experiment, this one was lifted 6" ( notice the old fronds, they were at the previous soil level)
This was done this past Spring and the Palm seems to have adjusted with no ill effects
I've seen photos of these growing in smaller containers, is anyone here doing that? and how is it working out?
Thanks! These suprised me too, I wasn't expecting to see anything until next March.
With most of my Palms in containers, the ones with deep roots can present some problems. Not having room for a bunch of 20 gallon containers, I have been lifting these a bit when potting up. ( only at the seedling stage )
As an experiment, this one was lifted 6" ( notice the old fronds, they were at the previous soil level)
This was done this past Spring and the Palm seems to have adjusted with no ill effects
I've seen photos of these growing in smaller containers, is anyone here doing that? and how is it working out?
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With the lifting thing...
I took a bunch of my CIDP & Dachy seedlings that I noticed I was getting some problem with the 2nd leaf was almost rotting at one tiny place cause ing the leaf to fall over (not off) and then start growing normal. So there would be one spot in the leaf where it would be brown and would bend over. After that spot, they would go back to normal.
What I did was repotted them, lifting them up to where the spot where the seed wrapped around the "trunk" and carefully cut the seed off.
What I have noticed is booming growth (caused by the upsizing of the pot) and no more browning. I think they were planted too deep and the water would set in there where the seed met the 'trunk" and molded.
I will take a pic of this later today maybe.
I took a bunch of my CIDP & Dachy seedlings that I noticed I was getting some problem with the 2nd leaf was almost rotting at one tiny place cause ing the leaf to fall over (not off) and then start growing normal. So there would be one spot in the leaf where it would be brown and would bend over. After that spot, they would go back to normal.
What I did was repotted them, lifting them up to where the spot where the seed wrapped around the "trunk" and carefully cut the seed off.
What I have noticed is booming growth (caused by the upsizing of the pot) and no more browning. I think they were planted too deep and the water would set in there where the seed met the 'trunk" and molded.
I will take a pic of this later today maybe.
Here is a pic of the problem I spoke of in the above post. The leaf stopped growing and formed a fold in the leaf where the leaf basically died from that point up, but lived going up to that point. The point was under ground and I think is from rotting. But after I cut the bad piece off, the leaf then continued to grow and put out other perfectly normal leafs. This pic is of just one of many many many things this happened to. I then cut the seed and the chord that attached the seed and peeled it off the tree and re potted. Since then, they have grown a bunch.
- Knnn
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Glad they recovered, I would bet that yours will be 4X the size it is now by the end of next Summer
Link is to an illustration which shows ideal planting height for seedlings,
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/EDISImagePage? ... 1&credits=
Link is to an illustration which shows ideal planting height for seedlings,
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/EDISImagePage? ... 1&credits=
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- Knnn
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Checked them again today, three more have germinated.
That makes for 5 out of 7 so far
That makes for 5 out of 7 so far
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- Knnn
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And a couple just breaking the surface,
I like the color on this one
I like the color on this one
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- Knnn
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12-31-2007
Just posting to show the growth rate. These are all starting on their second leaf.
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- Knnn
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A nice thing about using the PVC pipe and lots of Perlite, when it is time to pot up, just separate both halves and the soil falls away. Ready to pot up with little root disturbance
Deep roots, these always seem healthier and faster growing when given space.
Deep roots, these always seem healthier and faster growing when given space.
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Steve
How the did I miss this entire posting?
Wonderful to see Bismarckia through the critical early stages.
Thanks for catching the entire process.
Nice pics of what must be--for a lot of people--their favorite palm.
The growth rate at Dec31 was amazing!
Did you use a band saw to cut that PVC pipe?
(Can't imagine doing it with a hand saw -- ouch)
Nice to see the root development.
The books all say that the deeper the soil, the better the palm will grow after transplanting.
I've seen lifting recommended, some even lift 6 or more inches, and prop it up so it doesn't fall over!
Steve your photo illustrations are always superb, and this is your BEST!
I'm off to the basement to kick my seeds against the wall...maybe that'll crack 'em
Barb
How the did I miss this entire posting?
Wonderful to see Bismarckia through the critical early stages.
Thanks for catching the entire process.
Nice pics of what must be--for a lot of people--their favorite palm.
The growth rate at Dec31 was amazing!
Did you use a band saw to cut that PVC pipe?
(Can't imagine doing it with a hand saw -- ouch)
Nice to see the root development.
The books all say that the deeper the soil, the better the palm will grow after transplanting.
I've seen lifting recommended, some even lift 6 or more inches, and prop it up so it doesn't fall over!
Steve your photo illustrations are always superb, and this is your BEST!
I'm off to the basement to kick my seeds against the wall...maybe that'll crack 'em
Barb
- Knnn
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Thanks Barb!
Used a jig saw with a wood blade for the PVC. It does cut pretty easily, then just tape or tie the halves together. The holes drilled along the sides seemed to help too ( Last year I used solid pieces and the mix always stayed a bit damp )
I usually lift mine about 4" - 6" If nothing else, just to get them to fit into a 5 gallon container
Good Luck with your seeds! If they were in storage for a while it might take up to 6 months, so don't give up on them!
Steve
Used a jig saw with a wood blade for the PVC. It does cut pretty easily, then just tape or tie the halves together. The holes drilled along the sides seemed to help too ( Last year I used solid pieces and the mix always stayed a bit damp )
I usually lift mine about 4" - 6" If nothing else, just to get them to fit into a 5 gallon container
Good Luck with your seeds! If they were in storage for a while it might take up to 6 months, so don't give up on them!
Steve
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- Wes North Van
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Bizzie
Where did you get your seed from?
Wes North Vancouver Zone 8b/9a
Keats Island BC Zone 8a
Palm Springs CA Zone 9b/10a
Keats Island BC Zone 8a
Palm Springs CA Zone 9b/10a
- Knnn
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The seeds are just about spent at this point, They get lighter as they are depleted. ( I usually find something to prop them up with )
These were from the CFPACS Seed Bank : http://www.plantapalm.com/centralfl/default.asp
Steve
These were from the CFPACS Seed Bank : http://www.plantapalm.com/centralfl/default.asp
Steve
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- Knnn
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This one is cut open to show the internal seed structure, ( this one proved itself to be non viable )
A little closer view, a viable embryo would be located in the bottom center, that is also the point the radicle would emerge.
A little closer view, a viable embryo would be located in the bottom center, that is also the point the radicle would emerge.
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- Knnn
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Barb, Not a tap root as with a Dicot, technically, I believe that would the first Adventitious root with lateral branching
At this stage of development, if that root is damaged, it can be fatal to the palm.
Steve
At this stage of development, if that root is damaged, it can be fatal to the palm.
Steve
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- Knnn
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This is one going on it's third season from seed........
Just noticed the start of palmate leaves
Steve
Just noticed the start of palmate leaves
Steve
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Ya, there's nothing like a B.nobilis to race my heart!
Steve, the Bizzie seed you cut in half and you said it wasn't viable...where the radicle should come out.
I don't know what they're supposed to look like, but here's mine cut open after 4+ months next to the wood stove.
http://www.palmsnorth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1631
Besides yours being a much better picture, I think the inside of your seed looks so firm and healthy, whereas mine
looks mostly pulpy and only fleshy in some parts. So what is it about yours that tells you it's not viable?
I'm not in the habit of cutting seeds open so this is a tad confusing.
Thanks.
Barb
Steve, the Bizzie seed you cut in half and you said it wasn't viable...where the radicle should come out.
I don't know what they're supposed to look like, but here's mine cut open after 4+ months next to the wood stove.
http://www.palmsnorth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1631
Besides yours being a much better picture, I think the inside of your seed looks so firm and healthy, whereas mine
looks mostly pulpy and only fleshy in some parts. So what is it about yours that tells you it's not viable?
I'm not in the habit of cutting seeds open so this is a tad confusing.
Thanks.
Barb
- Knnn
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Barb,
The Cotyledonary petiole would emerge from the bottom of the seed where the wall is thinnest, ( referring to the photos I posted), an embryo would also be located in this position. The majority of the seed is stored food, which is generally sufficient to the first leaf stage.
One test that can determine if a seed is viable or not, is to cut it in half and soak it in a solution of triphenyl tetrazolium chloride. A viable embryo will take on a red stain.
Some more info on this procedure: http://www.frsa.org/SAfacts/SAFTZ.html
I've never had occasion to use this procedure myself. With the one I cut open, it ended up being the only one out of the lot that never germinated, and was constantly growing mold no matter how well cleaned. ( that generally is a good indication things are not well
Steve
The Cotyledonary petiole would emerge from the bottom of the seed where the wall is thinnest, ( referring to the photos I posted), an embryo would also be located in this position. The majority of the seed is stored food, which is generally sufficient to the first leaf stage.
One test that can determine if a seed is viable or not, is to cut it in half and soak it in a solution of triphenyl tetrazolium chloride. A viable embryo will take on a red stain.
Some more info on this procedure: http://www.frsa.org/SAfacts/SAFTZ.html
I've never had occasion to use this procedure myself. With the one I cut open, it ended up being the only one out of the lot that never germinated, and was constantly growing mold no matter how well cleaned. ( that generally is a good indication things are not well
Steve
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- Knnn
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Barb,
I don't see anything in yours that would suggest a problem, ( the endosperm seems to be filling the cavity, no discoloration present, etc)
Your seeds should have a good chance of germinating still, if you can get them somewhere with around a 90* - 100*F temp it will speed up the process. Have you thought about picking up a heat mat with a thermostatic control ? It would be of help with the Cycad seeds you are expecting.
Farmtek carries the mats and thermostats, ( lots of other places do too)
http://www.farmtek.com/farm/supplies/Pr ... ctId=39510
Steve
I don't see anything in yours that would suggest a problem, ( the endosperm seems to be filling the cavity, no discoloration present, etc)
Your seeds should have a good chance of germinating still, if you can get them somewhere with around a 90* - 100*F temp it will speed up the process. Have you thought about picking up a heat mat with a thermostatic control ? It would be of help with the Cycad seeds you are expecting.
Farmtek carries the mats and thermostats, ( lots of other places do too)
http://www.farmtek.com/farm/supplies/Pr ... ctId=39510
Steve
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- Knnn
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Barb,
Here is one that is almost spent, you can see how the endosperm depletes, and where the cotylendon emerges.
( one of my cats chewed this one off a while ago, but the Palm is fine
Steve
Here is one that is almost spent, you can see how the endosperm depletes, and where the cotylendon emerges.
( one of my cats chewed this one off a while ago, but the Palm is fine
Steve
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- Okanagan desert-palms
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Steve great work on those bismarkias. Your right they need bottom heat for germination. I put them on a heat mat, used perlite in a tupperware container with a timer 16 hrs on 8 off. The two batches of seeds four months apart both germinated with 2 weeks 90%. It took 2 months for the first sprout. Maybe the soil needed to be warmer for it to sprout faster. I think the next time I`ll use longer pots like you did.
John
John
Okanagan Palms and Tropicals
6b-7a
6b-7a
- Knnn
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John, Thanks! The taped together PVC pipe works out great when it is time to pot up, I didn't lose any out of this batch, but most did sulk for about a month ( I should have waited for warmer weather)
Barb, Had no idea what was going on inside the seed until I cut open a couple to take a look myself
Steve
Barb, Had no idea what was going on inside the seed until I cut open a couple to take a look myself
Steve
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