Bulgarian palms

Godfryd · Post by **Godfryd** » Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:28 pm

Hello Zack,
It's nice to read you here in PalmsNorth. Great plant, I really felt in love with the big Trachycarpus

Keep us updating with news from your backyard and photos of course!

ivonekitov · Post by **ivonekitov** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:39 am

Last-minute update of D.Orinoco photo: already we have a baby

)

ivonekitov · Post by **ivonekitov** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:57 am

Survivor-Trachycarpus(-9 F, -23 C, 500 hours subfreeze T in february), photo from few days ago: aprox. 12 new leaves and begun to made trunk:

http://ivonekitov.glog.bg/_files/5379086.jpg

http://ivonekitov.glog.bg/_files/5341107.jpg -To compare, the same plant on February, 26th (left down on a photo).

http://ivonekitov.glog.bg/_files/5343146.jpg - and a week after complete snow melting, the begining of March

http://ivonekitov.glog.bg/_files/5379085.jpg - the new Butia to test(sorry, not right quality of the picture)

http://ivonekitov.glog.bg/_files/5379084.jpg And the Jubaea, ready to meet (and defeat!

) his first winter in OG. - http://ivonekitov.glog.bg/_files/5347473.jpg - the same plant in the begining of a spring . Well, the landscape is prety more clear. but just now, looking at that picture, I sow the growth(when you see it allmost every week, it seems like no difference:)

I'll post some other photos in the next few days - bananas, and few smaller palms in OG.

ivonekitov · Post by **ivonekitov** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:41 am

Some other plants:

The cute Opra

in a front of Wachy: http://ivonekitov.glog.bg/_files/5378196.jpg

The same chicken (almost young hen) on the big Orinoco: http://ivonekitov.glog.bg/_files/5378197.jpg

Musa Orinoco and M. Cheesmanii in the end of September - grown from 2 to 11-12 feet in the end of April to this moment: http://ivonekitov.glog.bg/_files/5378413.jpg (you can see the start photos few posts up)

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:34 am

Great palm pics!

I hope my Bulgarian Trachy is that healthy some day....
still recovering from last falls damage.

Cameron_z6a_N.S. · Post by **Cameron_z6a_N.S.** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:08 am

Great results, Ivo! Are you trying the nedle palm (Rhapidophyllum hystrix)?

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:44 am

Ivo, fabulous!

Great looking Butia and Jubaea.
Didn't think Jubaeas grew that fast. Lots of growth on it. Congratulations.

Barb

ivonekitov · Post by **ivonekitov** » Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:18 pm

hardyjim, hope all will be OK.
Here in lower plains we had the same extremes (in southern places like Plovdiv, as sample, which didn't notice such temps since earlier 50's in last sentury. Part of them died, but remarkable percent survived and are OK with more than 10 new leaves in this growth season.
Wish you a success with your Thachy!

ivonekitov · Post by **ivonekitov** » Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:22 pm

Cameron, I was thought about this palm, but decided to not plant at this time because of it too small growth rate. And...hm, because I'm sure it will survive in my weather/ climate conditions - it's not challenge in this job for me

)
regards: Ivo

ivonekitov · Post by **ivonekitov** » Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:34 pm

Barb, you know, its great pleasure to me to sit for a few minutes to drink my weekend morning coffee around this beautiful plant, so hoping at milder winter I'lll try do do everything depending of me that Jubaea not only survive, but to not loose any of her leafs. And hope next grow season even more better rate of growth.

About Butia - that's another story: I planted it in the end of September, so must be very careful to keep in good conditions this winter. In any case, I'll report the results here.
I have another one, smaller Butia in OG, which growth was remarkable too - maybe in a third position after Wachy and Trachy's growth. Will try to post some photos too next few days.

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:27 pm

Thanks Ivonekitov

Here he is on the comeback trail -after spear-pull
and socket pull(the inner leaf sheathes)this was a bad injury
for any palm but especially tough on the little guy..

Pic from a few weeks ago...

<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -12063.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -12063.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

ivonekitov · Post by **ivonekitov** » Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:11 pm

Seems very healthy now.
I have 3 like yours on a photo - they survived last "turbo"-winter with almost no damage, no any protection (one spears-pull, but recovered in a spring). In my case they have another serious problem: Summer drought in the very sandy soil on this place where they are. Of course, I irrigate them, but once at week(sometimes once on two weeks). If the little Thachys survive this winter too, I promised them to include in automatic irrigation system next year (problem is they are too away from the water source - digging channel, put a pipe etc. ; ))

P.S : Once again, very nice green color on your Thachy, I wish You(and it) a success! : )

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:44 am

Yea,that would be a lot of work for palms that might not make it....

these guys are pretty tough though!

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:41 am

Jubaea not only survive, but to not loose any of her leafs. And hope next grow season even more better rate of growth.

I'll follow your winter results with great interest.
My Jubaea are only 1 year old seedlings.
They'll spend winter in a cold building with lots of light.

Your "turbo winter" is a good description of what Europeans endured.

About Butia - that's another story: I planted it in the end of September, so must be very careful to keep in good conditions this winter

September planting = not much time to grow roots.
That's risky.

Jim, incredible recovery.

Barb

ivonekitov · Post by **ivonekitov** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:16 am

September planting = not much time to grow roots.
That's risky.

Yes, I know, but a guy here - nursery owner, hearing my... plaintive virtual cry about the big spring-Butia(losing his spear and, most probably his growth point too) made me suggestion which I couldn't reject

))
And having bad opinion with the overwintering of the same-dimension plant last winter, decided to plant it in OG and provide strong winter protection. Just MUST HAVE jelly date fruits next 2-3 years!!

The plus in all that saga is, she already had an month of almost a perfect conditions to grow, and will have another at least 2 weeks (~75F on air day temps and ~66F on a ground in depth 40-60 sm (2 feet)
So we shall see. The practical experience will be the only judge : )

ivonekitov · Post by **ivonekitov** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:33 am

Talking about Jubaea seedlings, i have two of them, the "biggest" one:))

http://ivonekitov.glog.bg/_wm/gallery/i ... 85&dflid=3 - two days ago

http://ivonekitov.glog.bg/_files/5371717.jpg - and the same plant when I found he sprouted, in the beginning of August

I wonder what's the better solution for him - all-winter vegetation in a warm place, or giving him some piece in cooler temperatures - there are different recommendations, can be seen in the palm forums about it...

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:13 am

Good work!
The high price of Jubaea seeds makes it very exciting to have them germinate.

Here's one of my 3 (of 10 seeds).
I'll try de-lidding the other 7 seeds this winter.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/southslope/7923524908/" title="005 by edible_plum, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8301/7923 ... c231_z.jpg" width="480" height="640" alt="005"></a>

I wonder what's the better solution for him - all-winter vegetation in a warm place, or giving him some piece in cooler temperatures

I wonder about that too, especially with seeds from the southern hemisphere where their winter is our summer (and vice versa).

But since I germinated them during winter, then a hot summer here, I'm giving them a rest in a coldish building with lots of light, very little water.
Is is possible to change their "clock"? (hemisphere growth periods?)

decided to plant it in OG and provide strong winter protection. Just MUST HAVE jelly date fruits next 2-3 years!! icon_razz.gif icon_biggrin.gif

You may have to wait a few more years than that.

By the way, what's an OG?

Barb

ivonekitov · Post by **ivonekitov** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:50 am

By the way, what's an OG?

))
Sorry, I thought it's from English - Open Ground (in open air condition, in a yard, garden, not in a pot in buildings). Sorry, my fault : )

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:54 am

Sorry Ivonekitov, I should've known what you meant from the topic.
And your English is PERFECT!

Got it confused with Organic Gardening.

Barb

ivonekitov · Post by **ivonekitov** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:24 am

Hi again! : )

Here are same photos of some of my palms, made 2 weeks ago, few days before "real"winter begun in my "tropical outpost

"
Have to look at exact measurements, but till 6th of December minimum at the point was aprox 25 F
After Arctic penetration had 2-3 days with minT 12 F(-11.5 to -12 C).
So, the photos before/after protection made:

Little Brahea:

Jubaea in 3 steps:

Isolation: XPS and poliethylene, heating(I'm sure it will survive with passive protection only, but i need to keep the leaves with no damage too) - 5 meters heating pipe with thermostat turning-on on temperature inside protected volume ~ 32 F

Canariensis:

after:

- passive at this time, with no heating. This palm survives with total foliage damage first ant 50-60% damage its second winter in OG, so decided to make this experiment. Think it will be OK, but... On the right back side in the little box - my little Butia, active protection( Just MUST have dates in next few years!!!

)

And the Trachy, with no ANY protection at this time, we shall see next week how it rebels 10.5 F/-12 C) a week ago with 2 or three frozen days(all day lower than 32 F temperature)

Another palms I have - 3-4 ft Wachy and 6-7 feet Butia(planted in September.......) with solid active protection.
Try to see will survive with mulch only a Orinoco banana in OG(rhizome) and 4 little Trachys with no protection.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:57 pm

Looks like you'll be building larger boxes next year

for those lovely palms.
That Jubaea is soooooo nice, must be 10 or 12 years old?

Hopefully lots of snow will provide even more protection.

Thanks for the photos!

Barb

ivonekitov · Post by **ivonekitov** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:13 am

Yea, this Jubaea is my favorite : )
The good thing is, these boxes can be used for many years, if in the summer they are kept protected from the sunlight in some basement or on the north side and covered. And yes, I'll be very happy to find they became smaller for the plant they protected now in next season : )
Well, I hope they will be effective: the purpose is to keep the plants maximum undamaged, not just surviving - to have better start in the spring, and, of course, to look better in the beginning of a growth season, not only its second half...
We shall see the results, and I'll show him in just 2 moths, hope...

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:05 am

plants maximum undamaged, not just surviving - to have better start in the spring

Yes, that's a good point.
It's terrible when protection was not quite enough and palms look awful until summer.

Hoping for a 2-month (only) winter too.

How old is that Jubaea?
I have 3 new seedlings of Jubaea chilensis (blue), with only two strap leaves each.

Barb

ivonekitov · Post by **ivonekitov** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:59 am

Nursery man, I bought this plant said between 11 and 13 years, but maybe 1 year less, not sure.
I have few seedlings 2-3 months old, few dozens

of seeds in different substrates and 20 Ju Blue seeds too in Vermiculite, put them 1 month ago. Hope, maybe a little optimistic, they will begin to sprout till march or at least April. OK, not all, few maybe... : )

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:19 am

20 Ju Blue seeds too in Vermiculite

Wow...I had only 10, and 3 germinated.
Trying the remainder AGAIN, after sanding the seeds a bit.
They were so expensive, I'll keep trying...and trying.

Do you start them in deep pots? or baggies?
I have NEVER had luck with baggies with either palm or cycad seeds, but other people vouch for the baggie method.

Barb

ivonekitov · Post by **ivonekitov** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:15 pm

Oh, it's a very long story:)
Or if not long, very complicated: The seeds I bought first(16 pcs) from European suplier still haven't no even one sprout.
After that bought another 20 from American (not sure is it correct) to write its name) - they sunk immediately, and first 2 seedligs are from it).
You'right they are expensive, but I told my wife: OK, I don't smoke, so if I put in this virtual bag 3-4 Euros each day about virtual-bit-not bought pack of cigarettes, after few days I'll have enough money to buy some dozen of seeds

))
But let's back to Ju seeds: after that i purchased another - JUST MUST have at least 10-15 of this plants, to make experiments after few years, for me, after Louisiana(and Mc Curtain Sabals and Trachys they have a biggest chance and surely a the hardiest pinnate palm). Have broken few exocarps and planted - zero success. Few of them planted in pots by one, two even three in one

Some - in two places in the yard and made the best - forgot about them. The real solution: in the beginning of August the first two sprouts were from american seeds, the 3 to 5 - on that place in a garden but...in october. I was absolutely surprised to find them. The first:

And the second one - sprouted in the worst possible moment - November

After long hesitation decided to make this experiment, no matter little chances to success: mulched, covered with big, solide plastic bag and wait to march to see will it survive:

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:14 pm

Thank you for explaining it.
I could really feel your pain and excitement with each stage.
I've been there too..except for planting JuBlues in the ground.

Surprised you put them in the ground...those expensive seeds would be squirrel food here.

For the seedling to be a strap-leaf in November

you must have been hoping to skip winter completely.

The real solution: in the beginning of August the first two sprouts were from american seeds

Mature seeds and perfect conditions obviously.
I bet the American company buys from RPS.

That reminds me...my new seed order STILL hasn't arrived.
Darn Christmas mail is slowing down my seed arrival.

I can imagine how excited you were to see them coming up in the garden.

(Maybe if I quit smoking, I could buy more seeds....)

Barb

ivonekitov · Post by **ivonekitov** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:27 am

Surprised you put them in the ground...

OH, nononno!:))
I'm a bit of gonna nuts maybe, but not so much!))
The 20(+1) Ju Blues are in Vermiculite here, not in OG!

)
All in previous posting i write was about normal Jubaeas!)

So, 2nd of August is my Jubaea Day(first own seedling).

And yes, a part of my seeds are from RPS, the "quick" - from Georgia Vines via e-bay. But oldest i put to sprout have 8-10 months, so till 2 or even 3 years...i'm still in the beginning of my Jubaea Way

That reminds me...my new seed order STILL hasn't arrived.

Patience is the way

Even from Germany to here i had to wait 3 weeks last autumn.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:21 am

2 or even 3 years

I have to label everything, so I don't forget what/where they are.

OK, I understand about your "normal" Jubaeas and JuBlue and where they are planted.

Re waiting for seeds, I wish palm seeds matured in the summer so orders would arrive when weather is still reasonable.
I drive to the mailbox (2 km away) every day because I don't want seeds to freeze in the metal box overnight.
Makes me crazy...~5 weeks of waiting.

Barb

wxman · Post by **wxman** » Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:24 am

Looks good, I like your protection! Question ... how do you fasten the styrofoam panels to each other? Glue? Looks like a quick, simple protection method that I may want to try on some stuff.

Thanks!

ivonekitov · Post by **ivonekitov** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:37 am

Wood screws - approx. 2 inches long(5-6 cm)
The first box i begin to made, I try to make more stable with some tin angles, but the rest of them just assembled them with 3 wood screws per side, and I assure you, after all 4 sides of the box was assembled, the box IS strong enough(if this is the locution, sorry if not, hope you understand me

)
By the instruction of one of the best nursery-owner here, I leaved the top of the XPS-styrofoam boxes opened, covered by at least two layers of polyethylene foil.
And yes, this way of made, boxes are very easy to be done(assembled) and didn't takes too much time. Abut how effective they are - we shall see after ... hope less than 2 months. I'll report here with photos too.

Notice: All of boxes are covered not only in the top, but all his round, and in ground are buried with some soil and/or stones: by this way not only the isolation in the basis is better, but all the construction is more solid and WIND-STABLE.
Important: It's not good idea to use more cheep(and thick) EPS-styrofome/with lower density/, because in case of humidification it looses almost all insulation efficiency. Moreover, in that case "the easy" way to assemble it with screws only would be not strong enough.

P.s: Tomorrow I will go to "the rancho" : ) and I'm very curious how the Trachy experienced these -12C( 10F) 10 days ago. Surely it's alive, but with how damages (or without them) ? - It hasn't any protection, so... I'll report here.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:35 am

tin angles

Good idea!
And hinges come in all lengths.

Look forward to hearing how your Trachy is doing unprotected at -12C (10F).

Barb