Pindo palm frond damage today -- mystery

[hilashes]

Awe Erik, so sorry to see this My first thought is to dig it up and transplant it too at this point. I hope SOMETHING helps Erik.... sad

Heidi

[hardyjim]

If you have the time,try and dig it up and clean the roots off,pot it up and see if you can save it.

I may be to late but if it lives you will have a nice palm again,maybe next fall,maybe the year after.

It will die where it is.

[TerdalFarm]

Thanks, everybody.
Dr. Bill, to make a medical analogy, medical intervention (lifestyle changes, then Rx) precedes surgical intervention as the risks of surgery are greater than the risks of medical intervention. Given that, I stopped water (of course, natural rain intervened) and applied Dr. John's peroxide therapy.
Transplanting a palm is so risky I thought of it as a last resort. When I realized I was making winter protection plans that excluded this Butia, I figured, well, I'm going to dig it up now or dig it up in April when I plant something else there" so might as well get it over with. They'll be enough digging come Spring as it is!

I dig it up today. First I trimmed off all but the best two leaves. The soil was pretty good--a nice loam, a bit on the clay side but not too bad. Key thing: no foul odors at all. I wrestled it out of the hole and rinsed the soil off the roots. Weird: the roots looked and felt healthy. Here is a photo from part way through the rinsing process:

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/6Q ... site"><img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/_r-MvN4jW1sE/TJ49_ ... AG0249.jpg" /></a>


I trimmed the few roots that did feel soft, but that was a few and they were not "mushy". Again, no odors of root or decay.

I sprayed the root mass throughly with fungicide (chlorothalonil) from a mist sprayer. I found its old pot from April, 2009 back in a barn, which I washed and sprayed with the same fungicide. I put flat brick flakes over the many holes, then an inch of pea gravel. I had some Miracle grow cactus/palm potting soil handy so I used that. It is nearly pot-bound already. I watered with a gallon of water with properly diluted 5-15-5 with IBA (Barb: indole-3-butyric acid).
Here it is now, on my potting stand with wheels:

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/3p ... site"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_r-MvN4jW1sE/TJ5L3 ... AG0250.jpg" /></a>

[TerdalFarm]

Bill,
by chance there is a firebush (Hamelia patens) and Mexican petunia in the background. Hope yours are doing well, too. --Erik

[hardyjim]

Are you sure the dark roots are alive?

Anyway,it's out,try using superthrive or some other
rooting hormones-it will help bigtime!


I wonder if one of your horses or something was using it as a toilet?

You've already got the hole-
I suggest building a deadfall there and see what you catch

[BILL MA]

Erik,
It's awful to see it out of the ground but I'm sure your feeling relieved. It would have died for sure if you left it in the ground, now there's a better then half chance of survival. I would recommend a healthy dose of seaweed extract for the transplant shock it a far better product then most and easy to get to, just follow the directions and do it as soon as possible.

Let us know if you have any questions.

Bill

[BILL MA]

Erik,
I forgot to mention the fire bushes and Mexican petunias. They are all huge now! The petunias are popping up everywhere, I'm leaving for of them in the ground which are over 5 feet now. I'm leaving the fire crackers in too, I figure it will be a good trial.

Have you ever left any of those in the ground there?

Thanks Bill

[lucky1]

Yup, healthy palm roots are white and fleshy.

Hey, you mentioned Mexican petunia and firebush in the back of picture.
Trying to figure out if that gorgeous blue plant is the petunia or firebush (never seen a blue fire?)

I'm glad you dug it up, and you did what you could for treatment.
Fortunately, these palms don't mind root disturbance (unlike brahea and bismarckia, etc.).
I hope it comes back for you.
Be patient.

I tossed mine maybe too soon, but ALL roots were brown and crumbly.
Barb

[TerdalFarm]

Barb, thanks!
Uh, I guess that means 90% of the roots were unhealthy. The white fleshy ones were few and far between.
Another bad sign: poor drainage. The water I used to rinse the soil off the roots ran into the hole. Well, it took literally hours to drain. I know the ground is saturated from recent rains, but still, it was not a good sign. This is the highest point in my garden and water never stands on the ground. The top 18" or so of my garden has great soil, but there is clay down below. I haven't worried about it as my garden is situated on a rise that slopes down to the horse pasture so I always assumed that water would move through the soil laterally. Well, maybe not. Perhaps that is why my younger plants coming out of 3 - 5 gallon containers do so well: they don't send roots down to the clay layer where water accumulates. Just a guess.
W wants a Butia back in that spot. If I go along with that I'll have to do some major work to improve drainage so its roots don't sit in water.
Jim, Bill: I had 5-15-5 with IBA handy so I used that. I'll check out the other products.
Bill, Barb:
the Mexican petunias (Ruellia brittoniana) have flowers that are more purple than my cell phone camera depicted. W bought three a few years ago and they have done well. This winter was tough. 1 died, 1 came back slowly and is only now looking good but this one has taken over. It is 5' high and spread to ~8' across. It has bloomed non-stop, even in August when it was so hot. No fertilizer, minimal water even in the heat. Hummingbirds and butterflies love it so there are always colorful animals hovering over it. Just great.
Firebush (Hamelia patens) is hard to find here. Two were eaten by goats but one (pictured) came back anyways. Given how hard they are to find, we'll dig and pot both of the ones we have. If you can overwinter them, I'll try next year. How do you plan to protect yours? (Maybe we should start a new thread?)
--Erik
Edit: corrected spelling of Barb's name

[hardyjim]

Welcome to the forum Barn

[lucky1]

Welcome to the forum Barn

...haven't gained THAT much weight, LOL.

took literally hours to drain

You have had a lot of rain, but "hours" to drain water out of a hole is not a good palm site.
Unless maybe it's a cataractarum
I'd not spend big bucks on another butia unless you'll plant it near a roof overhang, protected from worst of the rainstorms.
Hope you can convince W to not waste $$$ and mourn yet another butia.

90% unhealthy roots...death spiral but, hey, it's always worth trying to save a palm.
I wouldn't use much soil for its "pot recovery", maybe just really coarse but small gravel.
Even straight sand stays moist for a long time, allowing few if any air spaces, as rocks would.

thanks for the Ruellia brittoniana info...

Barn....er....a....Barb

[TerdalFarm]

Barn, er Barb,
I love the Cat palm idea as it would go with the Chameadorea scheme in that bed. And here I thought keeping C. radicalis alive in winter was going to be a challenge....
I've killed two Washingtonia in that site. Now I know why. I suspect Butia along with Washy will live in pots.
At least my avatar Butia is doing great (knock on wood & promise NEVER to compare a palm to a horse ever again).
I figure I have all winter to think about what to put there come spring.
--Erk, er Erik

[BILL MA]

Yeah, drainage is key. I bet your sabal will love sucking up all that moisture all winter Erik for the brighter side of things. I have my butia right under the gutter downspout from my third floor apt. It gets all of the condensation from the ac drain and when ever it rains it gets that too. I think my advantage even though the top two feet plus of Dark loam similar to your property is there's beach sand right under that 8 feet down.

Since you have a tractor and don't have to dig manually like myself I'd suggest giving any palms you plant a good footing.

Clearly your washy died from the soil not your protection. This was my thought before but I never said anything, how much advice can you actually give before people think your a pain in the ass That's why I keep quiet now for the most part.

Bill

[TerdalFarm]

Dr. Bill, advise away!
I can't actually get W's tractor to that location so it will be all manual digging. But clearly necessary. I'm going to keep learning about Sabal; it might be the way to go. I went big with them this year and have a first winter with Sabal (3 spp.) to look forward to. Again, advise away; a pain in the arse is better than the back pain from digging a dying palm....
--Erik

[lucky1]

why I keep quiet now for the most part.

You're bad!!!! Hey, we learn from sharing ideas.
Even the most experienced gardener would have difficulty in certain sites...Erik's learning what will and won't grow with a clay base, and his results are beautiful. Great tropical poolside.

gutter downspout from my third floor apt.

Beach sand is a beautiful base! And 4 and 5 inch rain events don't cause waterlogging.