Beginning the germination process!

damir · Post by **damir** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:14 pm

what to say after all this excelent explanation, great pics and everything. not even years of research could compare to this exquisitely finding you share with all of us.

p.s. today i planted seeds you've sent. tomorrow i'll take them out and do the "de-lidding" technique. now i know on each specie where to cut. thanks once again!! regards

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:49 pm

I was thinking, probably a stupid question but..................

Is de-lidding, just a form of scarification, except there is a spacific spot to scarify? If so, is there a specific spot to scarify canna seeds?

**** if you type in "delidding seeds" in yahoo, barbs post comes up first thing ( about the foxtails i think) LOL

Cameron_z6a_N.S. · Post by **Cameron_z6a_N.S.** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:54 pm

Thanks Damir! Please try to post some pics when you de-lid your seeds!

Canadianplant, that's it! I don't know why this hasn't really become a popular method sooner, because people have known about seed scarification for many years! When I scarified the canna seeds I just chose one end, it didn't really seem to matter.

For an update on the Hayes Stiffie seeds, around 25 more have germinated since last night when I put them in warm water.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:37 pm

Without looking it up in the dictionary, I thought scarification meant exposing seeds to a winter environment for even brief period of time that allows the "dormancy" then to be broken as it warms up, i.e. seeds of pine, fir, cedar and such.

Barb

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:49 pm

thats STRATification..... to many "ications" in botany I think LOL

Cameron... wow....... Im going to have to try this on some I think.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:51 pm

You're right Jesse, I was thinking of stratification.

Cameron_z6a_N.S. · Post by **Cameron_z6a_N.S.** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:38 pm

I took a few hours this evening and de-lidded the Nannorrhops seeds. They're soaking now:

They took longer to sand, because I really had to search for the embryo location on each one

Cameron_z6a_N.S. · Post by **Cameron_z6a_N.S.** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:45 pm

Canadianplant, here's the website I went by for the canna:

http://www.cooltropicalplants.com/growi ... -seed.html

I didn't bother using nail clippers, I just used sandpaper until I saw a bit of white.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:53 pm

Cameron, I've virtually scalped my two remaining Nannorhops ritchiana seeds looking for the embryo "door".

I found a dot, but it hasn't moved in two days...do you have a close-up of one?

Barb

Cameron_z6a_N.S. · Post by **Cameron_z6a_N.S.** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:15 pm

Barb, right now my BB wouldn't be able to get a close up shot. I'll try to explain it:

On one end there is a visible black-ish dot near the bottom. The embryo is on the opposite end. There is usually a small circle or slight bump (not directly at the top, but near it). It's very hard to see, probably like 1 mm wide. I only found it maybe 3/4 of the time. Also, the embryo is usually close to the surface of the seed.

I'll try to take a closer shot in the morning.

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:02 am

Ah thanks Cameron, since my comp died at christmas, i lost alot of links, that one included.

Sry to bug you about it again, but, some of the seeds arent nice and round, they are wrinkled ( came out of the plant like this). Are these immature seeds?

damir · Post by **damir** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:05 am

here are some pics of de-lidding seeds

needle palm

nannorrhops ritchiana kashmir

sabal mccurtain

damir · Post by **damir** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:07 am

and a try to do the same with musa sikkimensis

this is the best i did. hard as rock

damir · Post by **damir** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:09 am

and here, few weeks ago, with regular sabal minor. after de-lidding it came out in 2 days in water

damir · Post by **damir** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:13 am

here is pic of germinated seed of agave palmeri, i got from desert zone. thanks once again. to desert zone and cameron!!

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:54 am

damir, thanks for the great pictures. Good to see!

One problem.
That second picture isn't a Nannorhops seed.
Looks like one of the seeds in the first picture of Needle (same markings as the one at "2 o'clock" position).

Nice work on all those.

I may de-lid my Prichardia and Nanorrhops AGAIN, maybe deeper.
Not moving yet back in water.

Barb

Cameron_z6a_N.S. · Post by **Cameron_z6a_N.S.** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:03 pm

Canadianplant, just plant them anyways and see if they sprout!

Great photos, Damir!

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:32 pm

Trachycarpus princeps after sandpapering on the "hump" part.

<img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5133/545 ... 13d2_b.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="DSC04478" />

the following failed: Cyrtostachys renda...the whole "cap" came off, but the embryo isn't growing from the "dot".

<img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5098/545 ... 57dedb.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="DSC04480" />

The following Nannorhops ritchiana still isn't moving after several more areas were sandpapered.

<img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5216/545 ... 959268.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="DSC04481" />

Barb

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:36 pm

Potted up today was a frail little Trachy wagnerianus (one of only 2 very old seeds that germinated from my order)

<img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5059/545 ... 545651.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="DSC04483" />

Barb

Cameron_z6a_N.S. · Post by **Cameron_z6a_N.S.** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:21 pm

Nice shots, Barb.

Here's a Nannorrhops seed about 18 hours after being de-lidded/placed in warm water:

I would say that at least 1/3 of them are showing signs of germination after 18 hours.

I've also had another 15 Hayes Stiffie seeds germinate overnight.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:30 pm

Jeez, Cameron my Nannorhops after 2 weeks doesn't look like yours after 18 hours.

Besides fresh seeds, you've got the magic touch

Appreciate the new pics.

Sooooooooo, Cameron, are you frantically shovelling soil mix into pots (like somebody shovelling sand into bags during a flood?) to prepare for the upcoming root explosion?

Barb

Cameron_z6a_N.S. · Post by **Cameron_z6a_N.S.** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:03 pm

Barb, I'm going to be spending tomorrow evening (and probably the rest of the weekend

) making the soil mixes and getting everything potted up.

I took a few pics of some of my cold-hardy citrus seedlings:

Poncirus trifoliata "Flying Dragon":

Yuzange (Yuzu x Citrange):

Thomasville Citrangequat:

Changshu Kumquat:

Cameron.

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:08 pm

Well done dude!

I have 2 small lemon seedlings right now, and that almond, which is 5 inches tall now, and is speeding up fast

Still waitin in my trifolate orange seeds, and the lime.... and 20 other bags (so far).

TimMAz6 · Post by **TimMAz6** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:10 pm

great updates Cameron. Who sells the hardy citrus? I've never seen seed offered before.

Cameron_z6a_N.S. · Post by **Cameron_z6a_N.S.** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:17 pm

Thanks guys! Canadianplant, did you grow the almond from a normal grocery store one? Was it shelled or unshelled?

Tim, I'm a member of this forum: www.citrus.forumup.org , and received my seeds from a member called Ned (he's on the HPS board sometimes). In total I received somewhere between 50-60 seeds, and paid $15 including shipping. Since you're in the US, you would have access to many inexpensive + cold hardy types!

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:25 pm

Quite the citrus grove already Cameron. Well done!

Re Poncirus, I'm curious what the appeal is other than the unique branch structure and hardiness.
Apparently the fruits are sour, but it makes a good rootstock for grafting onto.

http://thymeafterthyme.com/poncirus-tri ... p-575.html

Ah...just think when they're blossoming.
Nothing...NOTHING beats the fragrance of citrus.

You must be growing those in your bed...everywhere else is already taken

Barb

Dean W. · Post by **Dean W.** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:46 pm

That's amazingly fast germinating. I hope mine do the same.

Good work on the citrus.

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:00 pm

Cameron

I got a bunch of unshelled almonds around christmas time. Lost a few when cracking the shell a bit ( i was using a meat cleavers blunt side), I soaked them for a week or 2, some rotted, and I ultimatly planted 2, using the baggie method. I planted them, pointed end up, with the tip JUST poking out of the soil. A few weeks later, BOOM almond.

I read that all almonds from california, are sterile, because they process and sterilize the almond before they are shipped. Apperantly, up here we get them from somewhere else.

Cameron_z6a_N.S. · Post by **Cameron_z6a_N.S.** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:34 pm

Thanks everyone.

Barb, some people say they taste awful, while others say they don't taste fantastic but are good enough to make "-ade" drinks out of. I'm hoping for the 2nd one

Canadianplant, I'll give the almonds a try soon!

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:40 pm

Probably excellent in cerveza

Cameron_z6a_N.S. · Post by **Cameron_z6a_N.S.** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:17 pm

Here's an update on my "mini Araucaria araucana forest":

While the tallest ones are around 4" tall, there are others that are still germinating!

I think right now around 200 have germinated, so it's about an 80% ratio. It's hard to see the smaller ones in these pics.

damir · Post by **damir** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:47 am

great cameron!!! i have some experience with araucarias. in its first year you need to spray it a lot with fungicide,every 2 weeks. fungus like to kill them when young. from about 30 seeds i got, just 6 stay alive. remember, every 2 weeks. now you should replant it. so that each has its own pot. and they dont like overplanting. they are cold hardy to -20C. i have one 2 year old seedling outdoor , planted last summer outside. and listen what happend. around xmass time, neighbour's kids had firework and one firecracker hit my araucaria and it's top went off. but it is still alive. lowest temp this year here was -13C. lot of days around -10. even few weeks with no temps above 0 C, and it looks good.

barb,yes in that pic is needle palm not n.r.. sorry, i didnt see.

regards

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:08 am

Wow cameron, those are picking up FAST

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:20 am

Great forest, Cameron.

Bet you're planning on getting these potted up and outdoors asap.
You do have a garden??? or an apartment?

damir, no problem...the seed ID was the only thing I was sure of.

Barb

Cameron_z6a_N.S. · Post by **Cameron_z6a_N.S.** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:39 am

Thanks for the advice, Damir!

Barb, I have a garden/backyard. I'm sure a few of them will find their way there sooner or later

TimMAz6 · Post by **TimMAz6** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:56 pm

Hi Cameron,

looks like a great cold hardiness test is coming with all those seedlings. The one I have tends to brown out every winter unless I protect.

Cameron_z6a_N.S. · Post by **Cameron_z6a_N.S.** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:59 pm

Tim, I'm going to have to make sure they're well-sited! Hopefully that can help them out a bit in the winter.

I spent around 3 hours today removing the fruit from some sabal + trachy seeds. They're soaking now:

Going from left to right: T. fortunei "Tesan, South Mountain", T. fortunei "Tesan, Cultivated", Sabal minor "Cape Hatteras", T. fortunei "Tesan, North Mountain", T. princeps, T. nova "Wide Leaf", Sabal minor, T. nova, Sabal "Louisiana", Sabal etonia. Missing from the pic are Sabal minor var. "McCurtain", and around 500 more Sabal "Louisiana" seeds.

I'm not sure whether I'll de-lid the sabal seeds. There are a few thousand of them, and I need to be spending my time getting everything else planted!

Cameron.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:03 am

Removing fruit often creates de-lidding

Thanks for the new pics...oh what a job!

I've planted 40 T.princeps in two community pots (ice cream buckets) without waiting for all of them to pop after sanding.
Think they're as fresh as your seeds.

Barb

Cameron_z6a_N.S. · Post by **Cameron_z6a_N.S.** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:13 am

Your princeps seeds are from Garry too, right? His seed always seems to be quite fresh!

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:45 pm

Yes, from Garry.
His website stated they were "ready for shipment December 25/10".