Palms protection 2014-15

Beny · Post by **Beny** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 2:15 pm

Just started to protect few palms here north of Montréal. All palms will be covered at my Customer by next weekend and will protect mine the week after. Almost all palms will be protected with the wrapping technique.
Here s a video, enjoy

http://youtu.be/fg7gbNhH52w

Ben

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 3:14 pm

Great job! They will be just fine.

Beny · Post by **Beny** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:42 pm

They should be, there s some pics...will post more videos this week !

Ben

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:15 pm

Love the heat tape!

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Mon Nov 10, 2014 8:55 am

Great work as always Beny.
Nice looking palms, very healthy.

The winter that I used pink insulation inside my plastic "tent" I had a lot of mold/fungus on the fronds, but it blew off in the wind.
Haven't used any since because I added more C-9s.
I now cover the entire "tent" of 6ml vapor barrier with old solar pool blankets.
The pool guy likes the idea of me reusing old solar pool blankets so he doesn't have to take them to the dump.

What a beautiful back yard that must be in summer.

Barb

bananieru · Post by **bananieru** » Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:34 am

Beny, I'm counting on you. The old method with a hut is getting out of control once they grow over 8'. Please document somewhere the method you're using. You're doing a great job.

Thank you for posting,

Tavi

Beny · Post by **Beny** » Mon Nov 10, 2014 4:00 pm

Barb,
I use the pink insulation over the Ayrfoil and Under the tarp. Like this, never that insulation touch the foliage. Its only to prevent the leaves to touch a too much cold enclosure, but thats an experiment this winter. I wrapped only 4 palms with that.

Tavi,
There s the way to do with the wrapping technique,

Tie the fronds together
install a 12 foots EasyHeat cable ( with their own thermostat ) on the ground around at the feet of the palm. Put the thermostat near the ground.

install a 18 foots EasyHeat cable ( 2 foots of cable by every feet of palm, ex.: for a 8 foots tall palm, you need a 18 foots tape ), put the thermostat 1 feet over the crown. You may need to add an extension to plug that tape if the palm is over 10 feets high.

Wrap the palm with Ayrfoil insulation ( use to protect Hot reservoir in the house ), tape them together. Put the aluminium side facing the palm.

Then wrap an arbotex over the Ayrfoil.

Then wrap tarp over.

Dont forget to make an hole , about 1 inch, at the middle of the trunck an another at the top of the protection. Thats help for ventilation and thats prevent fungus problems.
But for the Butia, dont make an hole on the side only at the top. That palm are not prone to fungus problems, and it s more sensitive to hard cold.

Hope it will help you guy's....this method works pretty well here even with that worst winter we all had last year

...

Ben

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Mon Nov 10, 2014 5:07 pm

I am testing one of my oldest palms this winter with my 55 gallon plastic drum method. I covered the foliage with frost cloth, one layer, I'm thinking once I positioned the drums over the palm that some of the cloth will be touching the fabric, I'm wondering if I'll have issues with damage to the foliage? There's clearly less protection with the plastic over my 3/4-1 inch wood boxes I've done in the past. Any thoughts? Once mine get larger I will be forced to go to the mummy route.

One additional question I have is, with the heat tape, is it pretty much on all the time until the outside temps get above 45F? I don't see how that tape would generate enough heat to trigger the thermocube off..... and cycle on and off to some degree.

Beny · Post by **Beny** » Mon Nov 10, 2014 6:41 pm

Wheelman,
The thing is to avoid if possible any leaves to touch very cold enclosure. But the windmill start having dommage at around 0F. I think is better to put the frost cloth outside the enclosure to prevent the cloth keeping the moisture from the palm. To avoid fungus problems. If you put some layers cloth over the drum, i think it s better.
For the heatcable, the one i use as is own thermostat starting whenthe temp. goes Under +3c or 38F. I verified the heatcable Under one of my wrapping and i saw during the day even at -10c, it was off. The cable turn on only few hours per day. If your palm are in the sun, it will start less. Dont forget the effect of the sun even in january.
The wrapping get at least 7-9c more than the outside temperature only du to the sun

Ben

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Mon Nov 10, 2014 8:15 pm

avoid if possible any leaves to touch very cold enclosure.

Beny's bang-on with that advice.
Fronds cannot touch the cold surface at all.

Barb

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:19 pm

Great tips!

Slight exception: I've had fungus problems with Butia. Not as bad as with Washy, but some.

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:43 pm

lucky1 wrote:
avoid if possible any leaves to touch very cold enclosure.
Beny's bang-on with that advice.
Fronds cannot touch the cold surface at all.

Barb

So the frost cloth between the fronds and the drums won't do me a bit of good? If so.... darnit.... I have everything on and the upper portion covered with plastic and shrink wrapped to water tightness (at least on the top). The issue I noticed with the barrels is even with me pulling the fronds up, I can still see it's a bit of a tight fit in the drum. And since I can see there's little between the plant and the outside I thought the frost cloth barrier draped over the fronds would do me some good....

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:00 pm

Wheel,
well, will do some good. You'll just get foliage damage where frond tips touch the outer surface. The palms themselves should be fine.
So, how cold is it there now? Snow?

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:38 pm

TerdalFarm wrote:Wheel,
well, will do some good. You'll just get foliage damage where frond tips touch the outer surface. The palms themselves should be fine.
So, how cold is it there now? Snow?

expecting 2-5 inches thursday, heading into freezing as we speak. I had to build my boxes this past friday and monday with a wicked cold.... I was physically exhausted doing these things this fall.... really makes me want to find an easier way. Although with that said, I can whip out a box in about 30-45 min. which isn't too bad. Long term with what I'm doing I don't like the idea of buying new strands of c-9's every year as I've found the bulbs are only good for one season, after that they start burning out. Getting down to a mummy wrap with a compact fluorescent makes more sense.

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:49 pm

Going low into the 20s (oF) tonight here in Oklahoma; feel sorry for all the family up in Michigan.
Low 30s in Oregon where I have unprotected palms.

I'm a fan of pipe heating tape as not too expensive and low in electricity use.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Nov 11, 2014 4:41 pm

So the frost cloth between the fronds and the drums won't do me a bit of good? If so.... darnit....

Frost cloth will help somewhat; the cloth won't feel as cold as, say, plastic.
Would let humidity escape too which is good.

Yup, an arctic blast is settling in.
Got the palm hut up yesterday but the camera's broken again.
Fronds are touching the roof, not good, so pulled them a bit sideways with bungee cord.

Everything's finally protected now.

Good luck wheelman.
Erik, not too bad in Oregon; they'll be fine.

Barb

905palms · Post by **905palms** » Tue Nov 11, 2014 5:37 pm

The deep freeze in Southern Ontario is not expected to be as bad, listed highs for the remaining week are around the 35oF (3oC), lows of 25 ish.
Got the palm huts up as well today as it was wicked mild out. Extra work this year because of the Pindo and Washy. Pics to follow.

As the cold is settling in, this forum is about to heat up!

Beny · Post by **Beny** » Tue Nov 11, 2014 5:45 pm

Dont worry Whellman, your palms sould be fine tooeven with the cloth Inside. There s less 20% chance to have fungus problems .

No arctic blast for us now. It was 13c or 55F today

...cooling down to 50F tomorrow then 32F on saturday. Will start to cover my palms at my home thursday. By next sunday, all palms will be covered

...

There s some pics of the palms in covered today...

Ben

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Nov 11, 2014 5:56 pm

Beny, that Butia's stunning

Enjoy the mild weather back east, folks.
We're getting out the woolies, and it's not for palms.

Barb

Beny · Post by **Beny** » Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:11 pm

There s another video i took yesterday...

Ben

http://youtu.be/yczdRqG6D-M

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:49 pm

Nice flowers on that female, Beny.

The male trachy sure has a thick trunk ... wow.
Mine's taller and only 1/5 that diameter.
Strange.

Thanks for the video look!

Brooklands · Post by **Brooklands** » Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:07 pm

It looks like it's going to hit -6c at my cottage in Harrison this weekend, so it's time for me to drive 1.5 hrs out from North Vancouver and screw my styrofoam shelters together to cover the CIDP and other tender stuff.

When Trachys grow just fine unprotected at my house in North Vancouver, I have no idea why I was so crazy to plant the more tender palms way out at the cottage where it gets much colder.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:33 pm

-6c at my cottage in Harrison

Might want to bring the tender stuff back to your North Vancouver home in Spring.
-6C is pretty cold for a young CIDP...

And then you can spend hours and hours building protection in your home's yard.

Good luck.
Barb

Brooklands · Post by **Brooklands** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:11 am

I wound up doing things a bit different yesterday when i got out here. The little newly planted Phoenix went from 3'6" to nearly 5' in one summer. I ran a drip irrigation line to it and had black painted stones around the base to heat the soil in spring and fall...guess it worked. So instead of tying the fronds up like normal, I pushed them down so that I didn't have to add a 2' strip to the 4' box. It will be interesting to see how miss shaped it looks in the spring.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:11 am

Phoenix went from 3'6" to nearly 6' in one summer

Wow, that's quite the growth spurt.

Any photos from yesterday?

Barb

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 7:53 am

Here are some pics of how I covered my Washy a while back....

Heat tape will work great but you need a very small area to heat...meaning
the wrap needs to be tight enough that the the tape can warm sufficiently.

<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/user/orbea6 ... 2.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -10002.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 11-19-10002.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/user/orbea6 ... 3.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -10003.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 11-19-10003.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/user/orbea6 ... 4.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -10004.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 11-19-10004.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/user/orbea6 ... 5.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -10005.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 11-19-10005.jpg"/></a>

I do open the tops when it is warm enough-so that moisture can escape.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 7:59 am

I recall how successful that's been for you, Jim.
Nice and sturdy.
Good job.

But no heat tape, just C-9s, right?

Barb

Beny · Post by **Beny** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 2:40 pm

Here's another video guy's...forecaster are saying 5-10 cm of snow tomorrow

....just finish to wrap all palms today, it was tight

....

http://youtu.be/bTzjyHVtA4g

Ben

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 3:16 pm

Beny,
So when you're dealing with a thermocube and heat tape, you're basically letting the thermocube only cycle on and off based on the air temps outside correct? The heat tape doesn't warm the inside enough to trigger the cube off does it? For me with my c-9 lights I have them cycling on and off constantly as they warm the area around the cube which i position around the crown.

I'm just curious if you're essentially turning on the tape and not turning it off until the temps outside come up from freezing to the 45 degree F cut off that is norm for the cubes we use.

Beny · Post by **Beny** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:02 am

I do not use the thermocube with the heat tape. It has is own thermostat. But if you use a T3 with C9, install your T3 Inside the protection, as you say near the crown. The thermostat in the heat tape ( i use 2 heat tape, one on the ground and another around the trunck and foliage ) should be Inside the protection. Cause if you put the thermostat outside, it will always turn on then burn the palm

...

Ben

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:01 pm

What temps does the heat tape thermostat turn on/off at? Does the tape warm up the air around the tree enough to trigger itself off or is the built in thermostat triggering off based on the temp of the tape itself? I guess I'm having a hard time figuring how much the the tape affects the enclosed air inside....

Beny · Post by **Beny** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 5:07 am

I think the tape heat at around 45-50c or 120F. Don t forget with the wrapping, you don t have much space to heat ! Even with the box method the heat tape works. I have a 10 foots box at one of my customer with a 24 foots heat tape and the palm had no dommage last winter.
The thermostat in the heat tape work with the ambiant air. Not the temperature of the tape. Depend of the exterior temp., it can take few or lots of minutes to warm enough the enclosure to turn off the thermostat.

Ben

Brooklands · Post by **Brooklands** » Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:58 pm

Is there any brand of heat tape that performs better for you?

I have tended to be energy wasteful, and just leave the CFL's burning all winter due to past losses with thermostats that failed, and stories of failed heat tapes and defective thermo cubes in the early 2000's, but perhaps that's all in the past, as most here seem to have great success in recent years, so the products seem much more reliable now.

Any source or brand names for the tapes you use and have great success with would be appreciated.

Beny · Post by **Beny** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 4:45 am

I use the brand EasyHeat with their own thermostat. And don t forget to not overloop the tape, it can t touch itself.

Ben

Paul Ont · Post by **Paul Ont** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:28 am

Finally have the chance to get to my palms this weekend... I don't think it's been cold enough to do any real damage, but still wish I'd protected them sooner. Whoops.

Always enjoy the pics and comments everyone!

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:14 pm

I'm sure in time I'll have to use the heat cable when in the ground palms here get too big to build cages around. Most though I installed a 6ft heat tape in the ground when I planted the palms. It's thermostat stays inside the enclosure so may never come on if thermocube does it's job, but at least if it fails OR we get some un heard of cold temps where the Christmas lights can't keep up the heat tape in the ground is to me a 2nd tier of protection.

905palms · Post by **905palms** » Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:54 pm

sashaeffer wrote:I'm sure in time I'll have to use the heat cable when in the ground palms here get too big to build cages around. Most though I installed a 6ft heat tape in the ground when I planted the palms. It's thermostat stays inside the enclosure so may never come on if thermocube does it's job, but at least if it fails OR we get some un heard of cold temps where the Christmas lights can't keep up the heat tape in the ground is to me a 2nd tier of protection.

Scott, I do exactly the same thing. When in doubt, fire up the heat cable. Mine is 100 footer and used around the base of multiple palms and roots as a back up.

Brooklands · Post by **Brooklands** » Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:12 am

Do you ever fire up the soil heat cable in the spring to speed up the early season growth?

905palms · Post by **905palms** » Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:54 am

Brooklands wrote:Do you ever fire up the soil heat cable in the spring to speed up the early season growth?

In the Spring, I apply a few shots of warm water to each tree with Epsom salts, as the salts also prevent freezing. No need to plug the cable in at that point, just for extreme low temps.

Brooklands · Post by **Brooklands** » Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:23 pm

Hi 905,

Interesting your comment on the warm water in spring. I was just reading a fellow on a UK forum doing the same thing. He gets 8 stems per season on his Jubaea when others over there get 4. Could the warm water or soil heat in spring really double the growth? I note some good with black plastic on tomatoes in spring, and my palms grow faster with black rocks or pavers on the soil in spring, warm water sounds even better to get the soil and the palm roots fired up for the season.

Curious if you have noted any growth improvements with your warm watering in spring.