Spear pull will be a big topic after this winter.

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:48 am

...ok,it already is for sure.

IME it is the moisture that stays in the crown area more than anything,couple that with fungal growth on damaged tissue and you can get spear-pull....

The important other ingrediant is warmth in coordination with darkness.

The damage is done in most cases but how far and fast it spreads is dependant on the above factors.

Spear-pull out west is less damaging then\east of the Rockies(generally)...it is the warm temps with the moisture in the crown that causes explosive fungal growth,sometimes faster than the palm can grow out of..

Some of us may need to assess how severe the damage is right away and operate -as opening up the crown robs fungus/spear-rot of its crucial needs...warmth,darkness and stagnant air.

This is why palms in the west rarely rot out in the bud area,it is generally to dry for that with the low relative humidity.

I have seen this with a Bizzy I have,the soil was bone dry(on the porch)and although it saw 23F and the
spear did die,it never rotted because there was never moisture present....it pushed up a dry spear.

Sometimes waiting to see if it grows back when it warms up is waiting to long because the fungus gets the jump.

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wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:50 pm

I'm keeping my hopes up that I'm not going to have any issues. All five of mine have full wood boxes that are not air tight. Two strings of c9 lights on thermocubes as well. I will say the lights have been on a ton this winter here in michigan, but other than that I think mine may come out in decent shape. No wrapping airtight stuff for me. Building big boxes stink but they do work.

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:06 pm

[quote="hardyjim"].

This is why palms in the west rarely rot out in the bud area,it is generally to dry for that with the low relative humidity.

Yeah. Right. That is so reassuring to me with respect to my Oregon coast palms. Recently, the weather alerts have been about river flooding, not cold. Should that be comforting?

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:01 pm

Kinda reassuring for my 2 tented Washies...

Even their mold was dry last spring

Blew away in the wind like it was goose down.

The poor things, 5 months tented already, not a drop of water.
They're probably the color of white asparagus.

But as long as the spears are fine...

Barb

bananieru · Post by **bananieru** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:22 pm

a little concerned about this as I wrapped the boxes in tarp, but there's no way I can even look inside with the cold and snow that's still outside. I can see the lights are still turning on and off and the temperature is around 5C.

Tavi

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:48 pm

bananieru wrote:a little concerned about this as I wrapped the boxes in tarp, but there's no way I can even look inside with the cold and snow that's still outside. I can see the lights are still turning on and off and the temperature is around 5C.

Tavi

I wrap the top third of my boxes with some old plastic sheeting I have or cheap harbor freight tarps. Gives the box some watertightness, but still allows it to breath from the bottom and middle. My boxes are cobbled together old doors, plywood and osb boards.

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:07 am

TerdalFarm wrote:
hardyjim wrote:.

This is why palms in the west rarely rot out in the bud area,it is generally to dry for that with the low relative humidity.

Yeah. Right. That is so reassuring to me with respect to my Oregon coast palms. Recently, the weather alerts have been about river flooding, not cold. Should that be comforting?

Sorry...your in the Northwest...

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:09 am

bananieru wrote:a little concerned about this as I wrapped the boxes in tarp, but there's no way I can even look inside with the cold and snow that's still outside. I can see the lights are still turning on and off and the temperature is around 5C.

Tavi

The cooler temps in the enclosure help slow fungal growth,if there is any.
Its when it is hot,wet and stagnant that there is a porblem if spear damage has occurred.

miketropic · Post by **miketropic** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:14 pm

I had moved everything else and went to dig up my needle palm today and all 3 new spears pulled..every leaf fried. the suckers looked ok but I just left it. maybe it grows back and the new owners have a palm but I doubt it

chadec · Post by **chadec** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:59 pm

I had to trunk cut a pindo and a needle already. Dug up my silver chammy, it was just getting worse. And even with the cover the ground is staying extremely wet.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:40 pm

Mike and Chad,
Oh God, that's awful.

The winter of death is almost over...another month.
Maybe two.

Barb

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:54 am

Digging them up is making it tougher for them,spear-pull and root damage

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:24 am

and root damage

I thought that too when I read it.
The worst thing for any sick plant is to dig it up.

Barb

chadec · Post by **chadec** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:35 pm

Understand, it was the last thing I wanted to do. Unfortunately where the palm was at the bottom of the hill it was beginning to drown. Seems I am going to have to install a french drain around my garden, because it is being washed out. The palm use to be above grade but not any more and was with spring rains coming it would have been doomed. All others were left in the ground.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:58 pm

Good in that case, Chad.
It'll take a couple years of babying to have it come around.
Hope it makes it.

chadec · Post by **chadec** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:09 am

Thanks Barb, I hope it makes it too.

Looks like I will be renting a bobcat/ditchdigger this spring for some major remodeling. If spring ever comes........

miketropic · Post by **miketropic** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:33 am

chadec wrote:Thanks Barb, I hope it makes it too.

Looks like I will be renting a bobcat/ditchdigger this spring for some major remodeling. If spring ever comes........

im with you I went to hd to look at there dormant trees and begin to make a plan..then they call for 6 to 8 inchs of ice and snow tomm...will spring ever come!

chadec · Post by **chadec** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:35 pm

Looking at extended forcast through mid April I do not see the lows coming out of the freezing mark. Looks like we could have late freezes well into May this year which is unheard of for us. Oh well, breaking out the chainsaw tomm. If I cant plant I can destroy something. Its gonna be 66F and I got cabin fever.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:15 pm

do not see the lows coming out of the freezing mark.

Heck of a short summer coming up.

miketropic · Post by **miketropic** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 3:56 pm

I feel you chad there is a big tree blown over at my new place..gunna get the chain saw out and go to town. I really wish I could find someone to bring me a few loads of fill dirt this time of year..that way the second it got warm I could get started...on a side note I got cabin fever myself and went back to home depot and got a yellow twig dogwood...I just had to buy somthing damn it..its been to long lol

chadec · Post by **chadec** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:20 am

We hit 70F yesterday, worked outside all day. Was 60F this morning, 5 hours later we are in the 20's and its snowing mixed w/ ice.

905palms · Post by **905palms** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:40 pm

chadec wrote:We hit 70F yesterday, worked outside all day. Was 60F this morning, 5 hours later we are in the 20's and its snowing mixed w/ ice.

I'll take that any day. Polar vortex #5 for us now...

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:49 pm

70F yesterday, worked outside all day. Was 60F this morning,

I can only imagine how good that felt.
Despite what happened later.

We got 2 inches of snow yesterday.
Calves are being born on the big ranch across the street, plopping onto wet cold snow.
That's not good for survival 'coz they freeze to the ground before Mama licks 'em dry.
Sun would help, but there isn't any.
Too bad my blow dryer won't reach 5,000 feet.

Shitty winter.
There, I said it.

Barb

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:59 am

Anyone have any experience with a Needle Palm with spear pull come back that is in the ground?

While it had protection from the elements, I added a string of xmas lights when it was going to get below 0 for quite a few days and it had only been in the ground for 2 winters..but looked good. The heat from the lights I think "cooked" the plant as it looks all dried out now, and spear pulled. Have not had ANY luck with the supposed cold hardy palm to exist(have lost 3 over time) but can keep much less cold hardy palms alive through the winter. Have a Serenoa Repens Silver on order 3 gallon so might plant that in Needles place if it doesn't show signs of life by next month.

Anyone have any luck in zones 5/6 with Saw Palmetto silver in the ground??

chadec · Post by **chadec** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:37 pm

Needles have came back after spear pull for me. This year is the second time for a smaller 3 gallon needle to pull. This is my last 3 gallon needle left others died off. My larger 7 gallon is the only one that hasn't given me problems?

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:38 pm

Did yours turn "dry" looking? I should have left well enough alone I'm sure. If it does die, I wont try another as they seem a little touchy to survive.

chadec · Post by **chadec** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:46 pm

Yeah, all the fronds dried up on it. This yr I have already gone and trunk cut it along with a pindo.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:47 pm

Your Pindo in the ground?? would love one here in the ground.

chadec · Post by **chadec** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:53 pm

Have 2 in the ground. 1 has pulled and 1 is holding tight. Last yr I had another pindo in the ground to pull. I cut and potted it up. Today its doing much better.

Zabola · Post by **Zabola** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:48 am

Pitty for your needles, i dont think they are touchy everyone here think they are tough, (and very rare) mine is just a seedling..

the protection:
<a href='http://postimg.org/image/wvthtdcsp/' target='_blank'><img src='http://s28.postimg.org/wvthtdcsp/DSC_0070.jpg' border='0' alt="DSC 0070" /></a>

Hystrix:
<a href='http://postimg.org/image/i23qcve69/' target='_blank'><img src='http://s8.postimg.org/i23qcve69/DSC_0066.jpg' border='0' alt="DSC 0066" /></a>

Just good dry protection no heating, no worries ps this was a mild winter..

Zabola · Post by **Zabola** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:42 am

I had 2 the other one, smaller one dried in the ground last summer without enough water believe it or not.. you dont plant baby palms and this one needed shade, mulch, water, will have to check on it this spring maybe its still alive

(and they were so hard to find)

905palms · Post by **905palms** » Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:11 pm

One pulled from my Needle clump which is 3rd year in the ground. The others were tugged and so for so good, especially the pups. A little HP was applied on all. It should shoot back and fill in by July. These are tough little guys...

miketropic · Post by **miketropic** » Sun Mar 16, 2014 5:56 pm

my needle pulled so I left it when I moved..my butia is so dead as well and the green med..2 of the 3 spears pulled on the silver med as well. my birmingham and cape hat look horrible but the spears are there..leaves are fried though. waggy pulled and is on the down hill..my only windmill seems to be the only thing not showing damage

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:08 pm

Miketropic: all those palms unprotected in the ground at your place?

miketropic · Post by **miketropic** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:46 pm

no that's what makes it even worse in pots in a unheated garage! whatever is left will be planted in ground this summer and will have to see what makes it next time around

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Spear pull will be a big topic after this winter.

Spear pull will be a big topic after this winter.

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