How will a Bismarkia handle a zone 5 winter?

teebee · Post by **teebee** » Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:49 am

Has anyone tried yet?

I dont mind boxing the palm with lights and such to keep it happy just not sure it will survive.

I found a 5 gallon Bismarkia at the local nursery yesterday. I would prefer to have it planted outside and just boxing it over winter but for the price of it I don't really want to mess around unless there is past successes I can draw upon. It would look great in the yard with my Sable's and Trachy's

Thanks

T

chadec · Post by **chadec** » Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:57 am

Its gonna be tricky. I lost one two yrs ago in a pot cause I let it dry out. And being a zone 9b palm they will require more heat than your trachys. Youll probably need to keep it on a thermocube and really watch it. I planted one last week and I really hope I can keep it happy this winter.

miketropic · Post by **miketropic** » Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:53 am

I came across my first one , a 5 gallon, friday at a wonderful greenhouse. I was blown away but restrained myself since I don't think it would make it here..this is a zone 7 but still I doubt I would make it. this one they said they would sell me whole sale for 85 dollars but I just couldnt do it. They had a nice trinalge palms 2 but I doubt it would make it either

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:56 am

Personally, I wouldn't try it.
If I wanted that look, and was willing to go all-in with soil heating, heat tape, lights on thermocube, insulated cover etc., I'd go with Brahea, or a silver Chamearops. Much bigger margin of error. Just my $0.02.

InsanePalmNinja · Post by **InsanePalmNinja** » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:02 pm

I'll Try it... it may fail but hey Am carzy as it is.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:58 pm

teebee, agree with Erik's comments that it's too risky in 5B.
Unless you get some dirt cheap specimens for a trial.

Plus their light requirements are substantial, as can be seen by any in the south that are inadvertently planted in half shade.
Would be near impossible to provide enough heat to the root zone/above ground AND sufficient light in a 5-month winter area.

It'd be my dream to have one planted too.

Barb

teebee · Post by **teebee** » Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:14 pm

Hmmm perhaps I stlll get it and leave it as a deck plant. I my over wintering spot would keep it quite happy. 2x600w MH Lamps running on a 14/10 schedule.

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:21 pm

You may be able to pull it off if:

Your protection is flawless,no high moisture inside,you insulate 2' down(at least) with 2"
thick styrofoam and build you protection out to the edge of it and you start protecting
it from moisture(rainfall)in late August....otherwise,the leaves will mold and turn black if there is any moisture
over winter inside the protection-you will also need to leave it covered until mid May and it will need to be kept dry.

So,basically put all your energy into growing one palm...you will also need to amend the soil out and down as far as
the root system you are planning on having can go.

If you fail in any of these it will not make it....one last thing,you will have to plan on success from the beginning
because if the roots are ever damaged or killed back from cold wet soil it will fall into decline(best case)and die.

On a positive note,if there is any palm worthy of all this,it's a Bizzy!

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:57 pm

I'd really love to see someone succeed with this in Zone 5.

What an accomplishment that would be...

Barb

miketropic · Post by **miketropic** » Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:05 pm

I think in a very large glass house is the only way

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:21 pm

Yeah, I don't think even Kew has one in theirs.

It's the old story...IF it works, how in blazes are we going to continue as it gets larger?
I'd slit my wrists (kidding) if a big palm finally dies because I can't continue increasing the protection size.
(which reminds me of my Trachy...oh well).

Barb

seedscanada · Post by **seedscanada** » Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:42 am

Tim, so I agree with Jim. That equates to a palm in your yard June July and august. And a thermally protected box in your yard the other NINE months.

I already feel bad about my Brahea armata being in its box the better half of six months. It has been reboxed a half dozen times since early March to protect from any frost. I hope last night will be the last frost until October or November so I can tuck my boxes away. I have also been covering my Washingtonia filifera and pindo and Musa basjoo for these instances of frost. The sabal minor, the needle palm, the silver chammy and the trachycarpus fortunei have been out since mid February.

I suggest this abovementioned work will only be tougher with a bizzy. It really should be potted and moved in to optimal sun.

teebee · Post by **teebee** » Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:14 am

I found this its sort of interesting.

http://www.thepondoutlet.com/home/tpo/p ... anter.html

Its too bad the dont build various sizes of this take a 20 gallon pot and bury it.

Perhaps I build something similar on my own a sheet of copper and and attach heat cable to that and bury it vertically around the root system.

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:46 am

In cold soil heating devices can be overwhelmed....

The thing about Bizzy's is,they get absolutely huge,wide and tall and have very stiff leaves.

Protecting one would be a mission-as I said though,if any palm is worth doing all this for a Bizzy is it.

chadec · Post by **chadec** » Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:53 am

If you kept the bizzy potted and burried the pot, then heating the soil would become easier. Plus having it potted will slow its growth. I definitely agree a bismarkia is the only palm I would go through this trouble with. Luckily for me I am much warmer and may have better chances.

Barb, how long you got before your standing on top of your house installing protection for your washy.lol

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:37 am

The main thing about a Bizzie is its very very long root system, which is prone to damage.
Even seedling roots are recommended to be in an 18 to 24 inch deep tree pot.
I remember when KNNN (Steve in Kansas) germinated his in a 2-foot long (6-inch diameter) drain pipe.

My 3 Bizzie seedlings are in 14-inch tree pots, although I haven't seen a root poking through the bottom yet.
Even Phoenix seedling roots were 16 to 18 inches long when I potted them up from the community pot.

standing on top of your house installing protection

Almost killed my 2 Washies this year.

But Big Boy Trachy is pushing 4 spears...

It won't fit in the box this year.

I haven't the foggiest idea what to do; even the carpenter shakes his head and laughs.

Barb

chadec · Post by **chadec** » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:42 am

When my sabal gets too tall I plan on giving it a hurricane cut just to fit it under its protection. May not be whats best for the palm but atleast it will be alive a little longer.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:52 am

I have a smaller one in 5 gallon pot that I bought early fall from Phil at JM. Put it in greenhouse for the winter where I had other palms and heater that kept tempts no lower than 50 deg and I will say mine has struggled. Might have been from the higher humidity in the greeenhouse as it affected other palms and plants as well. Just waiting for some at least warm days here in Omaha so It can get the heat it needs and hopefully come back around.

It would be one thing if they were cheap and easy to buy but they aren't. Good Luck though if you give it a shot!

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:18 pm

chadec wrote: . Luckily for me I am much warmer and may have better chances.
l

In this case better chances means yours may still be alive in fall

chadec · Post by **chadec** » Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:25 pm

Ya'll dont be jealous.

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:40 pm

chadec wrote:Ya'll dont be jealous.

Whats there to be jealous of when your talking about palms this far out of their zones

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:50 pm

I'm just thrilled I've got 3 Bizzie seedlings.
You know the routine...keep 'em for a few years until they croak, and then start again.

Barb

miketropic · Post by **miketropic** » Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:56 pm

lucky1 wrote:I'm just thrilled I've got 3 Bizzie seedlings.
You know the routine...keep 'em for a few years until they croak, and then start again.

Barb

I got some bizzy seeds in the prop been there for 6 months still nothing...no rot just no pop

chadec · Post by **chadec** » Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:59 pm

Barb, thats one reason I planted mine. I suck trying to keep them alive potted. So my best chance at a good sized one was trying it in ground. I probably wont keep it alive long but there is always a chance.

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:24 am

Better off to just buy a decent sized one,you can sometimes find them fairly cheap on e-bay-maybe not an option in Canada.

If you have the summer heat like Chad does,what a great palm this would be to try,if you are in a colder zone 5....forget it.

How cool would it be for people to drive by(say someplace like Iowa,or any cold winter place)and see a huge Bizzy growing!

One big Bizzy would blow away a whole garden of cactus and palms!

chadec · Post by **chadec** » Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:48 am

Have to agree with Jim. But even with my 50 days of 90F weather, I think the extended cold may be too much. And even the winter precip will soak up under the protection. I may go through several bizzys before actually getting one to live. But at 35$ for a 2 gallon if I ever succeed.....

chadec · Post by **chadec** » Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:48 am

Double post

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:06 am

bizzy seeds in the prop been there for 6 months still nothing

Mike, I think they need a min of 100F.
My germinating mat was too cool, so I put them nearer the woodstove in the basement.
Presto, 3 popped.

the extended cold may be too much.

And higher latitudes = far less light.

blow away a whole garden of cactus and palms!

The color of a Bizzie would match your cactus garden Jim

Great dream though.

Barb

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:08 am

Nice dream, yeah, but really: Brahea and silver Chammie look almost as good and would be easier. Not easy, but easier.

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:27 pm

TerdalFarm wrote: Brahea and silver Chammie look almost as good .

haha

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff20 ... g_0427.jpg

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:13 pm

Yeah well...Since I can't grow a Bizzie outdoors, and there's only the remotest hope for a Brahea armata, I wouldn't be disappointed to have this in my yard.

Brahea armata http://www.plantsandtreesonline.co.uk/6 ... e-palm.jpg

Barb

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:37 pm

Can you get them anywhere Barb?

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:11 pm

Very nice specimen!
After seeing a few in (southern) Utah last year, I have more respect for Brahea.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:21 pm

Despite their high price, the Brahea armata are, in my opinion, the poor man's Bizzie.

I bought my two twins 5 or 6 years ago from a guy on the Coast.
They're not readily available from what I've heard.
If you can find a 2 or 3 gallon B.armata, grab it.
Hang the price.
They're spectacular.

But a bugger to protect for winter...I planted my little one this March (and you could almost hear it cry about the cold soil).
This winter it'll probably croak.
But it's my only chance of approaching the beauty of a Bizzie.

Barb

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:37 pm

[quote="lucky1"]Despite their high price, the Brahea armata are, in my opinion, the poor man's Bizzie.

Barb[/quote]

Well put.

If I wanted a Bizzie in ground, the least expensive option for me is: move far to the south. If I lived in Brownsville, Texas, I'd plan on protection. But would go for it!

A Brahea in Brownsville? Good to go. I'd try them further north, even to Dallas with protection.

But now let me make a prediction: Jim will succeed in Iowa. But wouldn't mean I could do it here.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:12 am

Jim IS the man I try to follow in advice and types of palms to grow outside since we live in similar zones.

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:09 am

sashaeffer wrote:Jim IS the man I try to follow in advice and types of palms to grow outside since we live in similar zones.

I'm flattered-thanks for that!

"But now let me make a prediction: Jim will succeed in Iowa. But wouldn't mean I could do it here. icon_redface.gif"

Erik you crack me up,a few more comments like these and you guys will have me planting my Bizzy out this year!

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:01 am

you guys will have me planting my Bizzy out this year

Agree, Jim's the man if anybody were to do it.

You're out there all the time in winter anyway, Jim

miketropic · Post by **miketropic** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:05 pm

althought Jim does seem to have the protection methods down to a science and I would def follow his lead I think I have decided to go with a brahea in the next couple weeks should be a bit easier in my climate. never considered one before but this thread ahs made me take a closer look.

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:14 pm

Super! Let us know how it goes. Will definitely need protection--they are zone 8, so electricity plus keeping it dry will be essential (IMHO).
Not that I get a commission or anything, but Phil at Jungle Music will ship to you.

Species Common Band$ 1G $ 2G $ 3-5G $ TreePot $ Citrus $ Seven $ Fifteen $ 20G $ 25G $ Box $
Brahea armata Mexican Blue Fan Palm, Blue Hesper palm $30 $35 $ 65 $ 175 $ 350+