palm about to die

miketropic · Post by **miketropic** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:29 pm

I just went in and checked on my var Raphis palm and it is all wilted over and looks like its about to die.. 20+ canes and every one is wilted it was fine this morning when I came home..it is near a window and I opened it up to get some light today but the sun wasnt that bright I can't see that causing it to wilt all in 12 hours. Anyone with ideas please let me know. Also how tough are these palms will it come back if I keep it moist and dark?

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:20 pm

But you just got it!!!!

Did the Cat pee in it?

miketropic · Post by **miketropic** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:46 pm

not the named one the large common one I have had it 3 or 4 months now..I can't come up with anything but the sun fried it..it wasnt even that warm today maybe 45F but it was sunny all day. the window faces north so I really don't see how it got to it.

seedscanada · Post by **seedscanada** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:18 pm

Barb, so true cats are bad for plant peeing and future death. In fact that was the fate of my traveller's palm last year upon second thought.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:07 pm

cats are bad for plant peeing and future death

When I move all the potted palms outdoors, I place big rocks on top of the soil to discourage neighborhood cats from using them as toilets.
Works well, and steadies pots in the wind too.

the window faces north so I really don't see how it got to it.

Not the sun then.
Could it have been extra chlorine in city water during winter?
Our city seems to beef up chlorine during winter, haven't a clue why, but the dog won't even drink it unless the bucket's been sitting for a day or two.

I'm puzzled what caused that, Mike.

Barb

seedscanada · Post by **seedscanada** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:41 pm

We often got Rhaphis excelsa at the greenhouse. It was one of the few we could water by hand (and allow to dry out moderately between waterings ) rather than daily watering on the floodfloors. It can easily succumb to root rot if not allowed proper drainage, i.e. holes at the VERY base of the pot perimeter (holes an inch up are NO good); and the palm must not be watered until the top inch of soil has dried out. In a greenhouse, we watered (drenched!) these once a week... That's 30-35'c all day in full sun. At home in the winter I suggest watering fully once every 20 - 25 days. Sorry my friend I think you loved it to death.

miketropic · Post by **miketropic** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:02 am

the sun is the only explanation I have. I watered it once a week, every friday, and teh soil was VERY fast draining. I water that one and the other with rain water only collected in a bucket outside and there are no animals in the house..the sun is all I have. It honestly looks like it hasent had a drink in years just totally withered up in 12 hours. I would post a pic but I am down right ashamed. the other more heavy variegated one get morning sun through a window, much more than the other and its fine. I just don't have a clue. I think it will make it some of the larger fronds are open and still green and the spears are all good but it will take a LOOOOONG time to grow out of this.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:26 am

Mike, please don't ever be ashamed to show a photo of a sick or dying plant.
We've all done it and learn from people's replies.

Just a Q: Has the soil pulled away from the sides of the pot? leaving a space where the water runs down and out without wetting the rootball?

I've seen many cases of the soil ball being so dense and impenetrable by water that it basically needs to be broken apart near the surface (into a bowl shape) to allow water down.

Barb

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:59 am

lucky1 wrote:Mike, please don't ever be ashamed to show a photo of a sick or dying plant.

I swear I posted that this morning......... Either way, a pic would help a lot, and she is right. To me it it seems like the more you get into it, the more plants you kill (at least at the beginning). I killed a few dozen last fall/this winter alone.

miketropic · Post by **miketropic** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:05 pm

this was the plant when I came home from work

This is what it looked like 12 hours after sitting near that open window...

makes me sick to think it went into decline that fast just from a bit of sun

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:08 pm

I've lost a couple of palms this winter to the very same thing, usually within 12 hrs of watering. Pindo Palm, Mexican Fan Palm both simply wilted over and died. When I pulled the Pindo out of the soil to use the pot it was in, the roots were pretty soaked and wet. Combination of wrong soil, and poor draining pot....and me over watering.

Lesson learned. BTW, I used rain or melted snow for water, so no chemical issues.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:42 pm

I still can't fathom how a north window--with no direct sun--can do that.

When my palm leaves fold up lengthwise like that, it always meant soil was dry as a bone.
And it was.
But obviously not if you say it's moist.

That's one for the books!

So sorry about that Mike.

Barb

seedscanada · Post by **seedscanada** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:33 pm

Firstly, I do not think it is a goner.
Secondly, plants can go in to decline when rapidly grown in (usually Florida ), then are brought to less light -intense climes. It is their ability to leaf-cull.
Barb good point on soil shrink and rootboundedness.

At the greenhouse, I have had to cut away as much as two-thirds of a rhaphis palm for the above reason, only for them to fare very well in rebound.

Just watch out for overwatering. There is no going back.

Drench FULLY every 20-25 days in the winter. I mean water it. It drains thru. Water it again with a tray beneath to soak up into the soil. 85%drains thru. Water it five minutes later again. Now the plant and soil may weigh 2 -3 times as heavy. Dump excess water from the tray. Leave it alone for 25 days. Water based on weight loss. I had a large palm that I watered when it dropped below 76 pounds. It would go up to 85 pounds when properly watered. I only misted until it lost 5-9 pounds. You will get used to judging water weight by picking up your plant every few days.

Sorry for the lesson on watering. But I was for quite some time, responsible for hand watering as many as 25,000 plants three times a week. I got accustomed to very few losses and many many saves.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:27 pm

hand watering as many as 25,000 plants three times a week.

And you judged that by plant weight?
Your back must be worse than mine, Adam.

Barb

seedscanada · Post by **seedscanada** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:58 pm

well most were 6" or ten inch pots (3 gal). Most were routine, some were as needed (by weight) and some got less or extra water if they appeared stressed (which may also be by weight. This got to be easy to compare stressed plants' weight to healthy plants weight and appearance to those all around it.).

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:12 pm

seedscanada wrote: Drench FULLY every 20-25 days in the winter. I mean water it. It drains thru. Water it again with a tray beneath to soak up into the soil. 85%drains thru. Water it five minutes later again. Now the plant and soil may weigh 2 -3 times as heavy. Dump excess water from the tray. Leave it alone for 25 days. Water based on weight loss. I

Adam funny you mention that. Ive just figured that out last year and its more reliable then the old "finger test". Some plants will be dry in the top quarter inch, while the bottom half is still soaked. Mind you ive havent lost a plant to rot in a very, very long time, if anything I have a habit of underwatering. This is way more helpful for seedlings in small pots.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:40 pm

This got to be easy to compare stressed plants' weight to healthy plants weight and appearance to those all around it.).

Certainly makes sense.

Bet you find your nursery work rewarding...I sure would.

Barb

seedscanada · Post by **seedscanada** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:25 pm

Barb, I miss the greenhouse work so much. It's been three years away from there now. Fresh air, plants, getting dirty every day in the sun and 30'c January days.
Also the 45'c full sun August days, uhhh... after that, I'd go home to feel the need for no AC. Need jeans and a sweater at 25c in the house. Really.

But that is why I grow palms and yuccas here at home now. My own greenhouse production here at home.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:53 pm

Fresh air, plants, getting dirty every day in the sun and 30'c January days.

Ah, that's what I could use every winter...all winter long.
There's nothing better for the soul than working in soil with plants, Adam.

The 45C sun days...that'd be tough.
...would've needed 2 layers of shade cloth

But that is why I grow palms and yuccas here at home now. My own greenhouse production here at home.

You're doing what most of us aspire to.
Good for you.

Barb

miketropic · Post by **miketropic** » Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:53 pm

pulled it out of its pot to take a look ( was the original nursery pot ) and the roots look alright..kind of dry althougb I watered it heavy the day it wilted.. I am doing a little experiment with a mixture a friend told me about we will see if it works..

roots

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:31 pm

Mike,
Good pic of the roots.
They do look dry, at least half of them.

Glad, though, that it wasn't what I suspected...such a hardened ball of soil that repels water.

If it were mine (and I thought it was dead/dying), after seeing those roots half dry, I'd plunge the entire root into a bucket of room-temp water.
A few drops of Thrive or Thrive-Alive (B vitamin) may or may not help, but use it if you've got it.
Would let it sit in the bucket for half an hour.
Then suspend the rootball so all the water drips out of the soil area, and replant in original or new pot.

I'm still puzzled by what happened after your comment: I watered it heavy the day it wilted.

Barb

miketropic · Post by **miketropic** » Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:36 pm

I watered it every friday when I came home from work. the mix it was in was VERY free draining and the water ran through it almost as I was pouring it in. still I didn't want to overwater. the day I went in and found it wilted I dumped almost a gallon of rain water into the pot..that was the middle of the week and it was dry like that today. I took it out and gave it a look over. planted it in a slightly bigger pot without distrubing the roots much and watered it in. hopefully that will bring it back a bit.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:18 pm

sure hope that works, Mike, it's a beauty.

Barb

miketropic · Post by **miketropic** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:25 am

was a beauty..needs some plastic surgery now

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Fri May 17, 2013 12:28 pm

Mike, did your lady palm ever come back? Had same issue with one I had that had been fine and perfect in it's place inside the house. All of the sudden all fronds wilted over, plant looked sluggish and even a couple up and dried out crispy. Thought maybe pot I had put it in was too large for it, so pulled plant and ball out and repotted into something not as big and used better draining soil but still no improvement. Took outside yesterday and gave it a good soaking with hose (were on a well, so no issued with bad city water) let it drain for a couple of hours outside and back inside it came. Still doesn't look good. Running out of ideas.

Scott/Omaha