Can windmill palms take full sun and summer humidity?

[dukeofdoom]

I live in southern Ontario, zone 6b/7a, So I know I will have to protect in Winter.
However the other problem is that summers can get to 40 degrees Celsius, and its extremely humid.
I live right on the Detroit river, and probably the most humid place in Canada.
Florida type humidity is common here in the summer.

So what would be better:

1. Should I plant on the South side of the house which is wind protected. A camellia overwintered unprotected there this year with no
leaf damage, despite the temperature dropping to -17.5 at night. However its in full sun, with heat radiating off the house.

2. Should I plant on the East side of the house? It would get afternoon shade, but it is exposed to winter winds. Its definitely cooler in winter and summer here

3. Do I need to wait for last frost? Or can I plant them now. Projected night temperatures dip down to -3 Celsius in the next 14 days.

4. I have a blue dwarf palmetto and needle palm I want to plant too. Where would they each do better.

Thanks for any suggestions

[lucky1]

Hi duke,

1. My planted Trachy has done better since it's been moved to the East side of my house. Our summers are brutally hot, with zero humidity (strong desert winds).
Leaves were previously always shredded from wind. It looked awful. Trachies don't like 40C with no humidity, but intense heat with humidity? I don't know.
Vancouver's trachies always have humidity and seem to do well at the typical lower summer temps on the Coast.

2. You protect it in winter, so how would it get winter winds on the East side?

3. I've got some other potted Trachies out, typically -2C every night. They're fine as long as they're dry. I have a roof over mine so rain/snow doesn't get them wet and then freeze on the fronds.

4. I don't have any experience with needles or palmettos so will leave that to others.

Barb

[dukeofdoom]

Thanks Barb,

That's useful information. I assumed that windmill palms would do better in part shade. The wind is more of issue through out the year. I'm up on a hill between tall condos, so I get very strong drafts on windy days. The last two years, the wind broke my fence. So I think at times it must get up to 100k/hour during wind storms.

[lucky1]

So I think at times it must get up to 100k/hour during wind storms.

Wow...Tough decision then, duke.

100k winds would leave few petioles intact.
40C is too hot for Trachies, except for short now and then heatwaves.
But maybe the humidity would make up for extreme heat.

Your dilemma might be best described as "six o' one/half dozen of the other".

Barb

[seedscanada]

Duke for when to plant, it depends on how big and established the plants are. If they are four years old or younger, I'd say forget it. Wait. Til late April cuz its too dicey to risk em

I would plant the palmetto on the south side LATER. It will have to be boxed in the winter the first year or so. Thereafter, ensure it gets some wind protection.

I just planted my (15gallon) needle palm today. So, if yours is big go ahead.

And finally, I went to the environment Canada website. In 2012, Windsor experienced four hours over 35c. Never hit 40. Not since 1988. High temp is of no concern anyway since yesterday my glass-covered Butia capitata and many Yuccas saw over 50c on my south wall enclosure. Which, by the way came down today.

You do however have some VERY gusty winds.

I'd love to see what you plant and where.

[dukeofdoom]

Thanks Adam,

I'll take you advice and still wait, the forecast keeps changing too. The windmill palms have about a foot of trunk, and if I had to to guess they're probably three years old. The needle and palmetto where bought last year in 5 gallon pots, so they're not too old.

The summer heat not being an issue is good to know. I realize these are palms, but I kept thinking that since the windmill palms naturally grow in mountain areas, that they liked it cooler and the ground moister.

I didn't know you could look up temperature so precisely on Environment Canada's website. I've only used Wolfram Alpha before to get the coldest and average temperatures, cool thanks.

I'll be sure to post pictures when I plant these out. There are a few other things to consider, so I'm still divided where to place them. But so far the consensus seems to be that the south side is best.

[hardyjim]

Trachys grow all the way down to the gulf coast and into Texas-to name a few areas-

Your best bet is the south side-
Planting-
wait until soil temps are at least 50F -8" down or more for best results.

[Xerarch]

I really wouldn't worry about the heat and humidity for a Trachy there. I've seen these in Phoenix, AZ and Las Vegas NV, also, as posted above, they grow in heat and humidity along the gulf coat, granted, they don't look their best in the hottest climates but the problem isn't how hot it gets really, it is the incessant heat found in latitudes much lower than yours, so if you get hot for a while in summer I wouldn't really worry about it, there is no way you stay hot for, say, 6 months plus. I would plant it in the warmest microclimate you can find.

[hardyjim]

Welcome Xerarch

[Xerarch]

Thanks, I've been interested in palms for about 15+ years and have been living in the palm forum world for quite a while but only recently joined here.

[lucky1]

Welcome aboard PN, Xerarch,

15+ years of palm passion.
Hope you have some to show us...we go ga ga over photos.

Otherwise we'll enjoy all the palms you're about to acquire.
Look forward to reading about your favorites.

Barb

[Wes North Van]

I would plant both your sabal minor and needle in full sun as they are both heat loving palms. As far as the Tracy is concerned I would plant it anywhere other than in the wind. That would be my main concern with a Tracy. Your temps are not that bad however as they do grow in the desert they look like crap there. If you have a spot out of the wind but does. Get afternoon shade then that is the ideal spot. They need lots of water in the summer heat too. Even in Vancouver where we only hit 30C for maybe a week or at the most two weeks in a given year they need lots of water. Again though wind is the main enemy of Trachies.

Good luck.

[sashaeffer]

Mine do here in Omaha, NE

[wxman]

I have mine on my black stone west wall. Full sun for half the day and have taken 50 mph winds + easy.

[TerdalFarm]

Welcome, Xerarch!

I see lots of Trachycarpus in the Dallas, Texas arera. In full sun, by parking lots, etc. So, 40 oC is nothing for them, and 100kmh winds are common, too. I now think of these as much moe tolerant than I once did, having first known them from Portland, Oregon.

Also, Sabal minor and needles are tough, too.

[hardyjim]

They can take it -but they do burn when temps rise above 95F

The palms in the south-ex-Dallas etc get burned up but recover beautifully
in the fall and spring but if typical Dallas heat returns in summer-they go into
survival mode....

[dukeofdoom]

Thanks for all the help so far everyone!

I looked it up, and I was right that its the most humid city in Canada

My city tops Canada in the following.

High humidex days at or above 35 Windsor, ON 28.12
Humidex days at or above 30 Windsor, ON 67.4
Most cooling degree-days Windsor, ON 421.73
Most growing degree-days Windsor, ON 2602.66
Most humid summer location Windsor, ON 1.79
Most smoke and haze days Windsor, ON 122.67
Most thunderstorm days Windsor, ON 33.24
Warmest fall Windsor, ON 11


Source:
The "Weather Winners" Highlights
http://www.climate.weatheroffice.gc.ca/ ... ers_e.html

[edit]
more info

Windsor ON growing days: 179 Last frost day : Apr. 25 First Frost : Oct. 22

From Wikipedia:

Windsor has a humid continental climate (Köppen climate classification Dfa) with four distinct seasons. The mean annual temperature is 9.4 °C (49 °F), among the warmest in Canada primarily due to its hot summers. Some locations in coastal and lower mainland British Columbia have a slightly higher mean annual temperature due to milder winter conditions. The coldest month is January and the warmest month is July. The coldest temperature ever recorded in Windsor was −29.1 °C (−20.4 °F) and the warmest was 40.2 °C (104.4 °F).[10]

Summers are hot and humid, with a July average of 22.7 °C (73 °F)although the humidex reaches 30.0 °C (86.0 °F) or above 67 times in an average summer, and thunderstorms are common every 5 days or so.[11] Winters are generally cold with a January average of −4.5 °C (23.9 °F) with occasional mild periods. Windsor is not located in the lake effect snowbelts, and snow cover is intermittent throughout the winter lasting 52 days of snow on the ground. Nevertheless, there are typically two to five major snowfall events each winter. Windsor has the highest number of days per year with lightning, haze, and daily maximum temperatures over 30 °C (86 °F) of cities in Canada. Windsor is also home to Canada's warmest fall, with highest average temperatures for the months of September, October and November.[12] Precipitation is generally well-distributed throughout the year. There are on average 2,265 sunshine hours per year in Windsor.[13]

[lucky1]

Great info on Windsor, duke

I especially like the part of it being "Canada's warmest fall weather".
When we on the west side are already shivering and stacking firewood.

Having read that, IMO your decision would protect the Trachy from the wind (100 km/hr), versus protecting from south side heatwaves.

In 100 km/hr winds between those townhouses (like in a wind tunnel), there'd be few leaves to look at out your window...they'd be in the parking lot.

Barb

[sidpook]

Mine thrive here in the high humidity and 90 to 100 F days and 70's to 80's nights in south jersey. Never had a problem. I water them regularly though int he three hottest months of summer.Good Luck

[Xerarch]

Welcome aboard PN, Xerarch,

15+ years of palm passion.
Hope you have some to show us...we go ga ga over photos.

Otherwise we'll enjoy all the palms you're about to acquire.
Look forward to reading about your favorites.

Barb

Unfortunately I only recently moved to my new (cold) location from AZ. I left all my palms behind but one I left behind Bismarckias, Syagrus, Butia, Phoenix, Dioon, Zamia, many fruit trees and a host of other trees and shrubs. The only palm I salvaged was a potted Rhapidophyllum hystrix which I originally acquired in SLC, UT years ago. This one will stay with me until I eventually make it to my permanent abode where I can plant it without fear of having to abandon it. Believe me, I wish I had the means to settle down in a permanent place when I was first interested in palms so I could get the maximum years of growth and enjoyment. Luckily I'm still young enough to get some good palm growing years after my wife and I move back to a warmer climate!

[lucky1]

That's a long move!
Heck, I would've kept the Bizzie...just kidding

That's an impressive list of gorgeous palms.
And this way, you can slowly acquire one or two a year, keep them in pots.
Drag them in and out and enjoy every minute of all that hard work that people in southern climes laugh at us for.

Barb