Winter Project: Palms, Bamboo and Others

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:15 pm

Winter is a hard time for us gardeners. This year, Ive decided to get some seeds to sprout. So far I have some brugs, Ginkgo Biloba and Agave Montana sprouted, and Yucca Glauca and Filamentosa, Dawn redwood, and black pepper seeds sown. I have also ordered the following species:

Needle Palm

Bamboo Palm

Fargesia Yunnanensis

Fargesia Fungosa

Fargesia Spathacea ( more then likley F nitida. The taxonomy for Fargesia is crazy, but this one is worse!)

more Dawn redwood

Agave Utahensis var Utahensis

I may or may not be adding to this list.

Cameron_z6a_N.S. · Post by **Cameron_z6a_N.S.** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:54 pm

Good luck!

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:56 pm

You're gonna grow black pepper?

Isn't that akin to knitting your own toilet paper?

BTW, when do you want the Spartan branches sent?

Barb

DesertZone · Post by **DesertZone** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:39 pm

Thank God Barb is on our team.

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:45 am

lucky1 wrote:You're gonna grow black pepper?

Isn't that akin to knitting your own toilet paper?

BTW, when do you want the Spartan branches sent?

Barb

LOL, It isnt that weird to try to grow your own pepper. And FYI, the bamboo is for toilet paper

I totally forgot about the apple cuttings. After my moms surgery the last few months have been a blur.... Ill take them when ever you can send them. I jsut needed to wait till they were dormant (im pretty sure they are now ). I probably only need 4 or 5 pencil sized branches...... Jus tlet me know the shipping and ill send you that !

I appreciate the reminder barb!

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:13 am

Hope your Mom's health is improving...

I'll PM you for your address, the Spartan apple tree is definitely dormant. :lickice:

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:16 am

lucky1 wrote:You're gonna grow black pepper?

Isn't that akin to knitting your own toilet paper?

BTW, when do you want the Spartan branches sent?

Barb

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:43 am

The "grow room"

Black Locust (with a cameo by the italian fig)

Fargesia (borinda) fungosa

Fargesia (borinda, sinarundinaria etc) Yunannensis:

Fargesia spathacea (or possibly F Nitida)

igor.glukhovtsev · Post by **igor.glukhovtsev** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:47 am

A good one! Is there enough light in the grow room? Perhaps your Gleditia iis germinating too early. You have to give A VERY GOOD light for them. Don't keep a temperature too high for them... Keep all your bamboo away off spider mites. Keep them water misting.

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:51 am

Have not covered my Sequoia or Black bamboo yet.

Sequoia always discolors(at least)but the bamboo is still green.

So far

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:53 am

What're you using for heat, Jesse?
germinating mats?

Have not covered my Sequoia

What do you think the kill temp of a young Sequoia would be?

Barb

Paul Ont · Post by **Paul Ont** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:27 am

Barb- RE: Sequoia, depends on the type, apparenlty the 'blue' form is hardier, but I've not tried it so i can't say. I think that around -25c would totally top-kill a small Sequoia... Anyone else care to guess?

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:27 am

Igor - The locust is Pseudoacacia, not honey locust

I have bad luck with starting things too late, so I started these early. The window sill they are on is pretty chilly.

Jim - The ratings are back n fourth, but I believe the "kill temp" is somewhere between -20C and -25C. They had some trees in pennsylvania a few hundred years ago that were "native". I usually see it rated zone 6 or sometimes 5.

Barb - No heat

The furnace vent is below that shelf. The room stays about...... 70F, maybe a bit warmer when the door is shut.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:45 am

So Jim's sequoia sounds OK ... it'd be toast HERE today.

apparently the 'blue' form is hardier

There's a Q there that I've always wanted to ask; same apparently with BLUE palms.

Will post on new topic.

Barb

igor.glukhovtsev · Post by **igor.glukhovtsev** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:47 am

Jeese, don't you have Robinia pseudoacacia in Thunder bay nurseries? Sorry for misunderstanding (Black vs Honey Locust). It seems the Black one should be common in SW Ontario... It's hardy down to minus 35C.

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:51 am

igor.glukhovtsev wrote:Jeese, don't you have Robinia pseudoacacia in Thunder bay nurseries? Sorry for misunderstanding (Black vs Honey Locust). It seems the Black one should be common in SW Ontario... It's hardy down to minus 35C.

It happens!

I have never seen any locust here in nurseries. I dont believe i have seen any locust planted here either. Theres always time to start, I dont need 20 seedlings!

igor.glukhovtsev · Post by **igor.glukhovtsev** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:13 am

canadianplant wrote: I have never seen any locust here in nurseries.

It's too bad. What particularly woodies do you have there (in nurseries)?

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:16 am

Hmmm... I have not had a chance to see some of them, but generally its maples (most common ones except big leaf maple (acer macrophylla) and Japanese maple)), ash, linden (basswood), choke cherry, dog wood, some oak, tons of pine and cedar, Fruit trees (apples, plum and pie cherry), ornamental pear (I have not seen a single production pear tree here, although they are supposedly hardy here), larch, aspen, willow, birtch (tons of birtch)... Here is a good list of the native species here, and other boreal forests!! (although, the forest a few km inland from the lake is mixed hardwood (maple, birtch, pine, oak etc)!!

http://www.borealforest.org/edresc.htm

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:56 pm

You can be the Johnny Locust seed of your generation.

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:10 pm

hardyjim wrote:You can be the Johnny Locust seed of your generation.

There have been a couple trees that I thought werent here, but turned out to be everywhere..... either way..

seedscanada · Post by **seedscanada** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:12 pm

My giant sequoia had been planted outside at 14" tall/ 3 years old and received -17c temps a few times and had minimal if any damage. At 18"/ 4years old it experienced -20c and had even less cold damage. now it is 5 years/ 26" tall and our cold est day this year has been -12c and needless to say, zero damage.

Gleditsia triacanthos (honey locust) and Robinia pseudoacacia (black locust) are widely planted in the Niagara and Hamilton Ontario areas. They aren't too finicky with soils, establish well, and if I recall correctly, are tolerant of pollution. I'm sure I have a few thousand honey locust seeds in the garage and there is a black locust seedling growing near here near the sidewalk. I remember, big leaf, little pods (Robinia). Little leaf, yellowy; big pods (Honey locust).

The little Black locust at my gym, last tree to lose its leaves, this was taken Dec. 9 2011

Adam

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:44 pm

seedscanada wrote: Gleditsia triacanthos (honey locust) and Robinia pseudoacacia (black locust) are widely planted in the Niagara and Hamilton Ontario areas. They aren't too finicky with soils, establish well, and if I recall correctly, are tolerant of pollution. I'm sure I have a few thousand honey locust seeds in the garage and there is a black locust seedling growing near here near the sidewalk. I remember, big leaf, little pods (Robinia). Little leaf, yellowy; big pods (Honey locust).

The little Black locust at my gym, last tree to lose its leaves, this was taken Dec. 9 2011

Adam

I wasnt too sure if I should order honey or black locust. I guess the spines won me over

Im going to use it as a "chop and drop" tree, or also called a pollard tree. Since black locust fixes atmospheric nitrogen, and also is concidered a "nutrient accumulator", I can use the cut branches, stems and leaves and mulch, which puts nutrients into the soil. Also, since it tends to sucker, especially when cut, I can cut down the saplings to use as poles and supports for plants. This will keep it small as well.

I know a few people who will take some seedlings. Im also going to give then to the local conservatory. They supply the city with some of their trees and plants (as well as having a huge ass tropical greenhouse!), and im sure they wont mind getting a few freebies!

TimMAz6 · Post by **TimMAz6** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:18 am

I think we are all talking about Sequoiadendron's hardiness not Sequoia......Sequoia is much less hardy. I grew Sequoiadendron in Rhode Island and it's hardier than -20C. There's a specimen in Bristol, Rhode Island which was planted in 1911.......it's seen some pretty bad winter's. In a couple more years Jim's Sequoiadendron will be too large to protect.......we'll find out how hardy it really is!

Also, there are large specimens in Smithfield, RI and Glocester, RI which are colder locations (zone 5b/6a).

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:55 am

Im surprised I dont see more people on here growin dawn redwood (metasequoia glyptotroboides). Hardy to zone 4 or 5, is a real redwood, and ws brought back rom extinction!

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:51 am

TimMAz6 wrote:I think we are all talking about Sequoiadendron's hardiness not Sequoia......Sequoia is much less hardy. I grew Sequoiadendron in Rhode Island and it's hardier than -20C. There's a specimen in Bristol, Rhode Island which was planted in 1911.......it's seen some pretty bad winter's. In a couple more years Jim's Sequoiadendron will be too large to protect.......we'll find out how hardy it really is!

Also, there are large specimens in Smithfield, RI and Glocester, RI which are colder locations (zone 5b/6a).

I didn't protect it last year,haven't this year either.

seedscanada · Post by **seedscanada** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:11 pm

Thats right, mine is a giant sequoia (Sequoiadendron giganteum), not a coast redwood (Sequoia sempervirens).

Dawn redwood is nice and it is soft and it is neat, but it looks dead in the winter. My neighbour has one and planted it six years ago 8 feet from his house. A mistake in
my opinion, especially once he sees its size in another 4 or 5 years he wont be able to get into his back yard!

Adam

TimMAz6 · Post by **TimMAz6** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:12 pm

Hi Jim,

How much cold has your Sequoiadendron seen? It seems to be getting established now so I'd like to see a nice cold blast!

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:21 am

seedscanada wrote:Thats right, mine is a giant sequoia (Sequoiadendron giganteum), not a coast redwood (Sequoia sempervirens).

Dawn redwood is nice and it is soft and it is neat, but it looks dead in the winter. My neighbour has one and planted it six years ago 8 feet from his house. A mistake in
my opinion, especially once he sees its size in another 4 or 5 years he wont be able to get into his back yard!

Adam

Wow thats dumb... They can get 8 foot trunks including the butress roots..... Not to good for the foundation either IMO. They have some big roots!

True they look dead in the winter, but it makes you appreciate it when it leafs back out!

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:13 am

Here are some updated pics of my bamboo seedlings. The first one is the Fargesia Spathacea. The second one is a pic of the shoots comming off of it. The third is Fargesia Yunannensis.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:23 am

Nice work Jesse, coming along nicely.

TimMAz6 · Post by **TimMAz6** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:53 pm

pretty cool seeing bamboo seedlings.

Cameron_z6a_N.S. · Post by **Cameron_z6a_N.S.** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:31 pm

Great job!

igor.glukhovtsev · Post by **igor.glukhovtsev** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:36 am

Jesse, a seedling with "the heart shape" leaves is Epimedium, isn't it? Keep your bamboo seedling away from the spider mites!

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:34 am

Thanks guys.

Tim - Im amazed at the boo seedlings. They are growing faster then I though, and are already shooting just over a month after germination. IF im feeling lucky, I can plant some of them this year, but Im pretty sure Ill hold off till next summer. I suggest you try some fargesia seeds, so far its more then rewarding!

Igor - THey are actually cercis canadiensis (eastern redbud). They are about 2 months old, and are starting to take off liek mad. They arent really anything special, but I have never seen them up here, and have also seen them rated zone 4 (usually 5). JUst an experiment for up here. SOmething to fill in some semi shaded areas.

Also, so far, no plants that i had previously are in that are. Only seed grown plants. There is a small chance id pick up some bugs, but so far nothing *knocks on wood!

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:30 am

TimMAz6 wrote:Hi Jim,

How much cold has your Sequoiadendron seen? It seems to be getting established now so I'd like to see a nice cold blast!

We have only seen 2F for a minimum temp this winter..............

The temp is an issue if it is accompanied by high winds,which it usually is.

Tim

This one is the first one I bought,the first one I planted here died because
I forgot/did not mulch the roots enough.

So,I moved this one to that spot.
They are VERY intolerant of ANY root damage/distrurbance and can easily be lost
to transplanting...I was lucky this one made it as it browned out a little when I transplanted it....

BTW

This one experienced 18F it's first winter.
It was covered with a rose cone and stayed perfectly greem through this.

The guy(on e-bay)that I bought it from said they will grow anywhere in the U.S,
they just need to get big enough to produce enough sap,to protect them.
Except the deep south, the deserts/mountains...they need constant access to moisture.

This one has come through the winter undamaged-good timing!

BTW

I can't believe a 5 year old Sequoia woudl not be well over 10'',
they are the fastest growing Conifer on earth

seedscanada · Post by **seedscanada** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:24 pm

My seed grown Sequoiadendron. Is six or seven years old and is 22" tall.
Adam

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Winter Project: Palms, Bamboo and Others

Winter Project: Palms, Bamboo and Others

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