Advice needed on palms for 45oN marine planting

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TerdalFarm
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Advice needed on palms for 45oN marine planting

Post by TerdalFarm »

Regulars here know I was forced off my farm and into an apartment in the city. Potted palms :(
I plan to get more into OK's native palm, Sabal minor, with some comparisons of different populations.
But I yearn to plant palms in the ground and watch them grow. What to do?

My aging parents have a cabin on the Oregon coast. I helped build it 30+ years ago, and it is where I made my first attempts at landscaping. The local "elk" (Cervus elaphus--"red deer" to Europeans) have long since eaten all but a lone pear tree.

I've secured my parent's permission to landscape (again) for them. They have a good Guatemalan man who works for them on occasion and whose crew can do the physical work even I am too old for.

What I want from you folks are suggestions of palm trees, and cool plants generally, to use in my plans.

Climate: temperate marine. "Temperate rainforest" is how I'd describe it in class, with about 2 metres of rain/year and essentially no snow. USDA 8b, but I plan to treat it as zone 9. My dad, who has been there for decades, says it gets to 15 F (-10 C) a couple times/century. In a typical decade, the low would be 25 F (-4 C) with 2 or 3 winters with no freeze at all. High is also low--90 F (32 C) is unusual. Rain falls October to June; "summer" is sunny and mild. Biggest storms are in November as the "pineapple express" brings storms from Hawai'i. Lowest lows are in December, but are more "cool and wet" than "cold." Every few decades a cold winter high settles in to the east and sends cold dry air that can linger for a few days. The cabin is on a steep slope facing south so cold air does not settle and what sun does shine in winter warms the land.

Palms: local nurseries are good, but do not have many exotics. The only palm I saw for sale locally was a Chamerops humilis. Trachycarpus ought to be easy, as they are ubiquitous in the city of Portland, which gets colder. I think it is safe to say that any palm which grows in Victoria BC would be easy to grow as this locale is warmer summer and winter. Further south on the Oregon coast, near the border with California, folks grow Phoenix.

Ideas?

The image shows the cabin from the front. I have quite a large area to work with. I have also linked to a photo album with more photos of the cabin and the neighborhood if you have a few minutes.

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/p ... site"><img src="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-YU2f ... C_0025.JPG" height="531" width="800" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/terdalfarm ... ite">Beach cabin</a></td></tr></table>

https://picasaweb.google.com/terdalfarm ... directlink


Jubaea
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Post by Jubaea »

I have seen Washingtonia robusta in Brookings. They did seem stunted compared to the ones I normally see in California but they were doing ok. There were plenty of Trachcarpus as well. I even saw a 15+ ft avocado tree (~5 meters) growing outside. The owner did not even know it was an avocado tree untill I told him what it was. There were some Bananas and Citrus also outside in Brookings. I doubt you could get any worthwhile fruiting varieties to grow there but maybe some ornamental varieties might work.

Edit:
One thing that could really determine longterm surviveability is when it does get down to 15 degrees does it rise above freezing during the day. I have looked at Seattle's weather and it might not get below 10 degrees but it may stay below freezing for multiple days.
Last edited by Jubaea on Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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TerdalFarm
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Post by TerdalFarm »

Thanks! I figure W robusta are worth a try. What about Jubaea?
Jubaea
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Post by Jubaea »

I have only been growing mine for maybe 3-4 years and they have not seen much cold weather. I was surprised that the seedlings did not die after being flooded when we had excessive rain last December. Washys are fast and cheap and Jubaeas are slow and expensive. I think my biggest one is starting its transition from strap leaf to pinate.
lucky1
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Post by lucky1 »

Erik, thanks for all those great pics.
I couldn't get the thumbnails to enlarge, but got a pretty good idea of the area from all your shots.
Looks like you're already smitten with what's growing there in October, as well as the possibilities.

Would W.robusta (or filifera) be able to handle all that rain?

I've always liked south slopes because of the light (besides I live on a south slope :lol: , albeit a heck of a lot drier than your place).
Have a feeling you're going to get into lots of "regular" gardening, not palm-dominant, because of what will grow in that zone.
Just think of the azaleas and rhodos you could grow...
Dwarf Hinoki cedars, deodora cedars are all magnificent and wouldn't kill your view if placed well.
and, of course, Trachies.

To hold steep slopes from collapse during rain events, nothing beats carragana whose fibrous root system can hold a mud mountain together.

Maybe even some terracing (with a backhoe) would give some more level areas (but don't lift the rocks you need for the retaining walls).

Neat project! House looks big, is it bright enough indoors for potted tropical specimens that can grace the deck for 9 months?

So...when are you moving?
And, please, take the potted palms from your apartment with you...

Look forward to hearing more, Erik.
Barb
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macario
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Post by macario »

Wow you have lots nice land to play with. Have you thought about large elephant ears, bananas, anything with large leaves. Also some huge tree ferns would give you the look of palms. You could plant hostas and cannas. I would also plant some bamboo somewhere in that huge space.

I cant wait to see what you do.
<object width="290" height="130"><param name="movie" value="http://www.wunderground.com/swf/pws_min ... sh&lang=EN" /><embed src="http://www.wunderground.com/swf/pws_min ... sh&lang=EN" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="290" height="130" /></object>
igor.glukhovtsev
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Post by igor.glukhovtsev »

Erik, unfortunately can't see Picassa pictures again. Would you please emailing the pic discussing to me? I'm so curious!
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Paul Ont
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Post by Paul Ont »

Jubea is a great choice! I'd also be tempted to track down a Phoenix theophrasti, since it should be hardy there! Oh, and let's not forget about Butia species! I'd avoid Trachycarpus fortunei since the thing is a weed out there... You should go for some of the less common ones like T. martianus or urkhensis or oreophilius (which would be right at home there, I think!).

What about tree ferns? D. antarctica and fibrosa would probably do well. Not to mention some of the mountain species from NZ.

There are A LOT of options!

If you do go the route of bamboo, be sure to look up species that perform well without summer heat. I know some of the Phyllostachys are better than other (I think Moso is particularly poor on the west coast).

Good luck and keep us updated!
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Post by Cameron_z6a_N.S. »

Erik, you have been getting a lot of great responses on the bigger board.

Here are a couple off the top of my head:


Tree ferns: Try to track down Cyathea dregi. It is one of the hardiest, but is not well known.

Palms: B. eriospatha needs less heat out of all of the Butias, and Jubaea should work well too. Trachycarpus of course. You could also try P. theophrastii like Paul said, or maybe P. loureiroi var. humilis, P. acaulis, etc. Cycads: Try D. edule or C. revoluta. Maybe C. panshihuaensis.

Cacti: I know in a wetter area your choices are limited. You could try some O. humifusa (better at tolerating moisture), as well as some of the native O. fragilis. You should also consider Maihuenia poeppigii, Maihueniopsis sp., etc.

Shrubs: You have a lot of options here. You could go for some nice protea, hebes, etc. Also, some hardier gardenias, fatsia, etc.

Bamboo: Go for the timber bamboos that require less heat, as Paul said. I think yellow-groove bamboo looks pretty good, as well as P. bambusoides, etc.

Groundcover: Again, lots of options. Aspidistra for shade, some smaller Hebes, etc.

Other: You've got a chance to grow a lot of unique stuff there. You could definitely plant some hardy citrus, figs, as well as other fruiting trees!


Cameron. :lol:
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TerdalFarm
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Post by TerdalFarm »

Thanks, everyone.

Let's see if I can embed the slide show:

<embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="https://picasaweb.google.com/s/c/bin/slideshow.swf" width="800" height="533" flashvars="host=picasaweb.google.com&captions=1&hl=en_US&feat=flashalbum&RGB=0x000000&feed=https%3A%2F%2Fpicasaweb.google.com%2Fdata%2Ffeed%2Fapi%2Fuser%2Fterdalfarm%2Falbumid%2F5665750439734735153%3Falt%3Drss%26kind%3Dphoto%26hl%3Den_US" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer"></embed>
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TerdalFarm
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Post by TerdalFarm »

Barb and Igor,
does the slideshow work for you?

Barb,
yes, palms will be just a part. I'm thinking of Trachy and Musa basjoo and the more exotic stuff up near the deck. Bamboo to screen the underside. Gunnera and tree ferns. Middle part, probably more English-y, like what you might find near Victoria BC. Considering trying a xeric-looking garden near the bottom as I like a challenge, and growing desert-looking plants in a temperate rainforest seems about as challenging as it gets! :lol:

I'm thinking of a "Pacific Rim" theme as the view looks along the edge of the Pacific. Also, the garden is really a gift for my parents. They love to travel and have been most everywhere along the pacific rim. Besides the native plants, plants from coastal BC, California, mountains of Mexico & Central America, Chile, New Zealand, Australia, China, Japan, etc. will be on my list.

No, Barb, we are not moving there soon. My dad asked and I said 15 years before we can live there when not in Belize. Plan for next few years is to spend summers (mid-May to early August) there. Avoid the OK heat, which W loves but I can't stand.

Interior is quite bright for potted plants. They would have to be small, though, as my folks would have to be the ones to bring them in in November and back out in February.

Paul,
yes, I'll try all the Trachies! :D But good old-fashioned T. fortunei is a favorite of mine so if I can afford it I'll plant some big ones and let little exotic Trachies play catch-up. Jubaea will have to be small as they are expensive. Phoenix and Butia will miss the summer heat; Phoenix will be damaged by the occasional cold winter and never get warm enough to recover. So, I'll try small palms of many types for fun, knowing they will get zero winter protection. --Erik
lucky1
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Post by lucky1 »

Erik,
Thanks for enlarging pics into a slide show...
That coastline is exquisite!

You've got a great design in your mind...with Pacific Rim rainforest and native plants, it'll be a no-maintenance garden once done. (Ahem...)

Ah...15 years, but in the meantime you'll get to spend 3 mos. there annually. :D

Quite the transition...OK to rainforest, rainforest to OK.
You'll have the best of both worlds, I think.

Oh...and I see a 2-story glass GH on the side of the house where you drive up...a tall lush oasis for all the tropicals you'll want indoors when you move there.

Barb
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igor.glukhovtsev
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Post by igor.glukhovtsev »

Erik, unfortunately I can't see the Picassa here in Kazakhstan. Sorry.
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TerdalFarm
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Post by TerdalFarm »

Igor, do Flickr, photobucket or Facebook work there? --Erik
igor.glukhovtsev
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Post by igor.glukhovtsev »

Good news! I've made my PC showing the Picasaweb! Erik, your OR cabin is Great! I like the overall view. Fuchia mafellanica is a fabulous! The native ferns are just WOW! I wished I have a property at a such beautiful location. Looks like zone 8a location? So many plants would be cultivated there: rhododendrons, camelias, bamboos, cedars, Trachys and the others!
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TerdalFarm
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Post by TerdalFarm »

Igor,
glad to hear. I like the photo of my wife as a little girl which you retouched last year.
The cabin is my parents, not mine, but I did help build it.

Native ferns grow like weeds there in the temperate rainforest.
:lol: My wife loves ferns and asked me once how I grow that one. I said "herbicides and machete keep them under control, sort of."
--Erik
PS just bought our plane tickets to Belize. Where are and your friends jetting off to?
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Post by Okanagan desert-palms »

Erik that is so cool about your Northwest palm garden plan. Butia capitata should be good there. That whole slope should be full of palms and others in a few years. South slope is a huge plus. Great slide show. Thanks.


John
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igor.glukhovtsev
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Post by igor.glukhovtsev »

TerdalFarm wrote: just bought our plane tickets to Belize. Where are and your friends jetting off to?
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igor.glukhovtsev
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Post by igor.glukhovtsev »

TerdalFarm wrote: just bought our plane tickets to Belize. Where are and your friends jetting off to?
Haven't decided yet. It depends on an availability of the helper who would stay at home looking either after my Mom and or the house.
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