Got my palm hut frames up!

mnpalms · Post by **mnpalms** » Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:47 am

Newly planted palms are usually very thirsty until well established. If you planted correctly (well draining) it is nearly impossible to over water them. Our city water has chlorine so I have a bunch of 5-gallon buckets that I fill and let sit out for a few days before using it. That gets all the chemicals out. Except when we had a lot of rain early in the summer, my trachies shared at least 5-gallon bucket worth of water about every other day, sometimes more.

I do recommend zig-zagging the Xmas lights without them touching the trunk, ground, or any part of the trees. If your enclosure is well insulated that should keep them nice and comfortable. Plus it is less of a fire hazard...

My enclosure is a wood frame (2x2's) with a plywood roof. Then it is partially wrapped in chicken wire for additional support. The walls are old bed comforters stapled in place. On top of that is bubble wrap insulation (the mylar coated stuff made for insulating, not packing). The stuff you can get at Menards in rolls of 4' wide by 25 feet long. It's only about 3/8" thick but it is SUPER good stuff. The seams are sealed in with high quality duct tape. On top of it all goes a large tarp (actually an old boat cover) and it is secured in place by bungee cords. I have an access door attached with velcro and sealed in with duct tape. That way I can check in on them and water as needed during the winter. This enclosure might sound goofy but it is actually extremely easy and quick to put up and take down and incredibly effective. 50mph winds- no problem. several feet of snow- no problem. Double digits below zero- no problem. No noticeable increase in electric bill.

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:50 pm

you must not have wind like I do... I'd have to tie everything down with stakes if I did 2 x 2 frames...
Mine will be wrapped with heavy plastic and then I think I'll shrink wrap them. I'm still thinking about how to hang the lights... going to have to put some cross pieces from door to do in there and drape them over in the way you describe.

wxman · Post by **wxman** » Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:12 pm

I do 2x2 frames with plastic on inside and outside, then 1.5 inch foam insulation screwed to outside of the 2x2 frame. Leave the south side foam off to let sun in and get free heat.

It's all heated with a 750 watt space heater set at 40F.

Oldest trachy has been in ground since 2008.

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:39 pm

You're lucky enough to have some protection with the house there... If I did what you have I would have to have lines tied to stakes in the ground to keep things upright! Mine are open to the west, right where the wind comes through, I'm hoping with the heavy plastic and shrink wrap that those will be adequate enough to keep the wind from tearing them up. Otherwise I will hastily be throwing up plywood.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:53 pm

Wheelman, that is what I'm planning for my first try at overwintering a Windmill. Mine sits against the garage on the south side so have some advantage there, but plan on using plastic, bubble wrap and Christmas lights. Already have heat tape in the ground and up base. It's been plugged in and working some mornings but we've had such a nice mild fall, haven't had to put plastic/bubble wrap up around the structure I build yet.

Scott/Omaha

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:13 pm

A wall nearby is certainly a benefit.

I like Tim's (wxman) big "windows" on the south side.
Wish I had made my two Waggie igloo windows larger.

While I was constructing it--and it had just plastic over the whole thing--the remote thermometer read 95 F .... yessireebob, that's some solar gain, huh?

When I was finished insulating, the windows were about 1foot by 1foot and now, on a sunny day as nice as construction day, the remote reads 75F or so.

Next year the windows will be larger but maybe triple-plastic protected...hope no neighbourhood cat decides to claw its way inside to warm up on some cold snowy winter night.

Wheelman, if your "shrink wrap" is the same stuff I'm thinking of ... like pallet wrap for retail store deliveries, it's really really strong if it's stretched tight.
Maybe put a 40-pound rock on the end of it so it doesn't start to unravel.

Scott, hope your mild Fall continues.

Barb

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 3:30 am

So Barb? you just had yours wrapped in plastic/bubble wrap as well and your inside temps got up that high on cold days?

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:39 am

just had yours wrapped in plastic/bubble wrap as well and your inside temps got up that high

It wasn't cold when I had that first wrap of plastic sealed, but there was no vent.
weather was still nice and mild.
10C (50F) outdoors.

Think of glass (or plastic-wrapped) big greenhouses.
Commercial growers have automatic openers set to thermostats and electric fans to prevent overheating/overhumidity (which leads to fungus) from the otherwise sealed/closed space.

Barb

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:37 pm

That was my concern too Barb, so may start out with a lighter wrap and watch my temps. It would be easy to add more if I needed.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:27 am

It's a trade-off, though, Scott.

You don't want to be out there in a winter windstorm to add a more substantial second layer when it's 10F...

Barb

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:38 pm

Insulated and closed up one box today. I haven't put final plastic wrap on it yet as highs will get to 36 through Tuesday yet. I'm going to do the second one Monday after work. I'm curious how different temps will be between the two for a couple days. Went real nice with my new impact driver! The insulation panels are honeycomb cardboard that I get from one of my grocery store customer of mine.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sun Dec 04, 2011 3:03 pm

I like that honeycomb cardboard, have never seen cardboard that thick before.
If it stays completely dry, would likely be as good as expensive styrofoam.

Re temps between the two...you've obviously got a remote theremometer in each?

Barb

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:51 pm

yes, each has a temp sensor. I am a bit confused so far, obviously it's warm today, and there's only a 1 degree difference between the two this afternoon between the open one and the closed one.... We'll see how things change once the lights start coming on again.

I don't know if you have a Save-a-lot nearby but that's who I get them from. I think big produce boxes have them in them, like melons and pumpkins. I'm only using it on the "non-door" sides and the tops, I'm hoping 1.5 inch of solid core wood is enough insulation for the other two sides.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:19 pm

there's only a 1 degree difference between the two this afternoon

once the cold hits you'll see heated temps kick in properly...on a warm pre-winter day, the shade inside keeps the temps down without the Christmas lights on.

Haven't seen a Save-a-lot but will keep a lookout for big produce bins at the farm lots.
As long as you plug with insulation where the structure meets the ground, it'll keep temps fine.

Then do like the rest of us and pray it won't be -40 below this winter during a power outage.

Barb

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:23 pm

Got a generator on standby.... May have to decide between that or the fridge though. Lol

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:53 am

I guess we'll find out how good the wood insulates now.....
should work fine as long as it's basically air tight

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:16 pm

I still need to throw plastic over it and shrink wrap it tight. I only had a little bit of daylight and no rain to do what I did.

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:20 pm

WHEW! I don't know if I want anymore palms after what I went through finalizing my two boxes....

Palm number two is insulated and enclosed and both are now covered in plastic and shrink wrapped as best I could (palm #1's box is tight against my handrail so fitting a shrink wrap roll through is not an option so just the top half gets that).

If I get some bigger palms next year I am going to have to seriously think hard about an easier way to go into winter with them.

I'll post a couple pics once I get a chance to snap some in daylight. They aren't real pretty, but I've always been a form follows function type anyways.

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:11 pm

HOLY COW! Just looked at my temps before I went to bed and one of them clearly just had the lights on, it hit 51 degrees in there.... Wow! I feel lame for saying this but this is going to be fun to watch this winter.... LOL

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:59 pm

I think it is cool to watch your protection in action....working

I have my T.ferns (as well as,on the other side of the house),Washys,
Butia and the Takil all,on Thermocubes.

so far they have been running(at their most extreme),33F to 60F

I have about 8-9 temp sensors.............what,it helps the winter go by!

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:49 am

If I get some bigger palms next year

IF? change that to WHEN

You're a true palm nut when you'd rather watch your remote temperatures than a football game.

OK, OK, that's a stretch I know.

And, yes, Jim has caused a thermocube shortage...

Barb

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:28 pm

lucky1 wrote:
If I get some bigger palms next year
IF? change that to WHEN

Barb

This is why I've been hounding Mike about more details on his boxes... I want something easy that even if I end up boxing up in near freezing temps that it's not hard to do.

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:41 pm

lucky1 wrote:

And, yes, Jim has caused a thermocube shortage...

Barb

I only have the 2

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:43 pm

I want something easy

so that's why you're growing palms

Jim, then it was the remote thermometers...all 5 of 'em.

Barb

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:37 pm

Update
Consistently maintaining high 30s to low 50s for temps and I'm in that range now with an outside temp of 21. I'm impressed so far!

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:17 pm

why I've been hounding Mike about more details on his boxes

Somebody will have to ask Mike to take a video of boxes coming down...in stages.
Then we'll know.

Nice job wheelman!

As long as they don't move in the wind, you'll be fine.

Barb

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:42 pm

They don't move, thanks to the two doors that make up two sides of them. Those are extremely heavy, I know this b/c one fell over on my head when I was putting them up!.

coconutmike · Post by **coconutmike** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:43 am

Hey Wheelman -I agree with mulching the palm heavy and even on the outside of the box.
good-luck
CoconutMike

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:10 pm

Well, I'm starting to think I was smart for making my boxes out of two old solid core doors and plywood.... We're getting 60mph winds tonight and they're holding firm.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:21 pm

Have you enjoyed watching your remote thermometer as the lights kick in on cold nights?

It's the last thing I do at night, and the first thing in the morning...check the temps.
Then I can relax.

And hope there's no power outage.

Nothing beats a plywood structure in a windy area.

Your palms will get their freedom...mid-March?
Bet they're as good as the day they were locked up.

Barb

coconutmike · Post by **coconutmike** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:13 am

Hey Lucky. I bought some 3 inch white styrofoam this year to do some boxes and with the light inside they glow in the dark. See that on my youtube channel
mikejjpage
enjoy
mike

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:59 am

Would've thought 3-inch styro was so dense that light wouldn't shine through

Mike, pls post your link again.

Barb

coconutmike · Post by **coconutmike** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:16 am

http://youtu.be/OFnPhObsMI0
here is link to see glowing boxes brighter boxes have extra light for holiday either led or landscaping
cheers
mike

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:29 pm

The back yard looks like some weird scientific lab ...

Cool.

Thanks Mike.

Barb

coconutmike · Post by **coconutmike** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:36 pm

Looks like a lounge with cool calm lights
mike

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:22 pm

lucky1 wrote:Have you enjoyed watching your remote thermometer as the lights kick in on cold nights?

It's the last thing I do at night, and the first thing in the morning...check the temps.
Then I can relax.

And hope there's no power outage.

Nothing beats a plywood structure in a windy area.

Your palms will get their freedom...mid-March?
Bet they're as good as the day they were locked up.

Barb

It has been fun watching the temps. I can't see in one box b/c of the plastic wrap, but the other I can just see in the window and it looks healthy so far. I'm thinking mid to late march I'll look to take the boxes down. Depending how I feel I may leave two sides up with the roofs just in case we get a freeze.... but I'm going to play it safe being my first rodeo.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:39 pm

and...tad da...drumroll..

a little birdie told me you're getting married this year

Ceremony on the bridge by the palms?
That'd be soooooo cool.

Barb

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:03 pm

Actually it'll be at the Frederick Meijer Gardens, they have a huge conservatory (greenhouse) that has close to 15 different palms in it. I'm hoping we can get some tropical photos done there after it closes to the public at 5pm.

On a side note, I managed to score six more solid core doors out of dumpster tonight. I'm set up to cover three more palms that can withstand 60mph winds in the next few years.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:22 pm

tropical photos done there after it closes to the public at 5pm.

that'll make for wonderful wedding photos, Doug.

Good job of finding the extra doors...
look forward to seeing your 3 new palms on arrival.

Barb

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:33 pm

Well I opened everything up today since I saw the ten day forecast saying we weren't going to go below freezing. I am keeping up three sides of the walls just in case we get a cold spell but in a few weeks I'll pull everything down.

A few notes.
I had a lot of mold inside when I opened it up. The honeycomb cardboard panels were pretty bad, my guess is the humidity was high in there.
I ended up with one broken frond when I pulled them all up to bunch them together, it was haggered anyways so I wasn't too disappointed.
My spears that were coming up to the best of my knowledge have not moved an inch. They feel solid so I don't think they're going to pull, but a little disappointed that after three months away things have not moved since I got them in July.

PalmsNorth.com

Got my palm hut frames up!

Looking good wheelman

Glow in the dark-lucky

Hey Barb

LOUNGE

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