Got my palm hut frames up!

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:48 pm

Decided today was a good day to get my frames erected for my two windmill palms. Let's see if I can get a picture to post.
Basically they're two heavy interior doors each tied together with two by fours. I plan on wrapping with plastic, putting two sets of c9's in one and one set in another with smaller lights with thermocubes. I plan on insulating with some four inch thick honeycomb cardboard on the open sides and the tops. I'm hoping the doors which are about 1.5 inches thick are adequate as well.

<a href="http://s1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb4 ... frames.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb4 ... frames.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:01 pm

Remember to insulate the gaps at bottom too, especially the hut at left.

You said the doors are heavy, are they solid wood? hollow?

If you get lots of wind, maybe a few stakes pounded into the ground, with screws into the frame to anchor.

Looks good.
Barb

Okanagan desert-palms · Post by **Okanagan desert-palms** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:32 am

Looks good. Are you going to use plastic to cover the other two sides? Natural light is good for the palms during overwintering. They should be fine in the spring with the effort you`ve put in.

John

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:56 am

Looks good-make sure you mulch
heavily and put a remote sensor(thermometer)
near the spears at least -the mulch inside also
protects your palm from having the drying lights
right on its roots!

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:54 am

When you guys talk about mulch, I think "bark" that you can buy in a bag at the gas station. Or do you mean a compost type mix of grass, leaves, bark, etc?

I plan on putting plastic over the entire enclosure, but on the plastic sides I have 4 inch thick honeycomb cardboard that I got from one of my grocery store customers to line those open areas. The doors are solid core.... very heavy.... I have the bump on my head to show when one of them blew over as I was getting my initial enclosure set up... I'm hoping their thickness will be enough for insulating with the c9's providing heat.

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:25 pm

How does this look for each light set up? I have one more 25 bulb strand that I am debating putting around the fronds, but I'm concerned about burning them.... thoughts? Otherwise my thought is doing mini lights up there to keep chill off?

<a href="http://s1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb4 ... thtree.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb4 ... thtree.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb4 ... thtree.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb4 ... thtree.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:45 pm

Since the enclosure is big, with lots of dead air space to heat up, maybe add the second string of 25.
The second string could be placed a foot off the ground on some sort of frame.
That way you're not overheating the top of roots.

Either way nothing would touch the fronds.

Is that beige thingy your remote thermometer? or thermocube?

One thing re the 4'inch thick cardboard you're installing on two sides, palms benefit from some light.
Maybe do a plastic "window" on the south side to help with heating costs when the sun can warm the shelter.

My big palm hut has a clear fiberglass roof, daylight is a little too high up to benefit from a warm winter sun.

Barb

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:54 pm

Speaking of roofs, will snow load be a factor? You get it pretty deep in your area.

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:55 pm

My guess would be this will not provide enough insulation
with that amount of lights....depending on your low temps.

I would go with 3 strands in each,the Thermocube will turn it
off when the temp goes up-better safe than sorry.
I would also buy some (bulk)hardwood mulch and put 4-5"
inside and 4-5" outside about a foot around.
I had over 6" of mulch around my Washys as they are quite root sensitive.
There is nothing worse than having to go out there in sub-zero
temps and make adjustments,believe me, have been there!
Not so much needing to add heat but having the stuff get blown apart!

Just make sure you have a way to watch the temps in there
and if you have too you can always add some type off insulation
to the outside and wrap/stable plastic to it.

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:14 pm

TerdalFarm wrote:Speaking of roofs, will snow load be a factor? You get it pretty deep in your area.

Local weather guy is predicting over 90 inches this season for where I'll be.

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:15 pm

Not surprised--Wife is from around there.
So, can your roofs hold the weight? They look flat.

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:19 pm

hardyjim wrote:My guess would be this will not provide enough insulation
with that amount of lights....depending on your low temps.

I would go with 3 strands in each,the Thermocube will turn it
off when the temp goes up-better safe than sorry.
I would also buy some (bulk)hardwood mulch and put 4-5"
inside and 4-5" outside about a foot around.
I had over 6" of mulch around my Washys as they are quite root sensitive.
There is nothing worse than having to go out there in sub-zero
temps and make adjustments,believe me, have been there!
Not so much needing to add heat but having the stuff get blown apart!

Just make sure you have a way to watch the temps in there
and if you have too you can always add some type off insulation
to the outside and wrap/stable plastic to it.

Last thing I want(ed) to buy is three more stings of lights, the first three ran me over $40.... I'm creeping up on being able to just buy new trees every year!

I'll give it some thought though. I was going to put some thick plastic over everything and then shrink wrap the whole thing as well to tighten it all up. I'll pick up some mulch as well.

I do have two separate remote thermometers to watch things. I haven't put the sensors in the crown just yet b/c I want to wait for when I cover everything with plastic and rain can't get in. I am also going to watch my themocubes (that's what you see in the crown right now as well, should they maybe be put up higher?) and make sure they turn on once it hits freezing.

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:21 pm

TerdalFarm wrote:Not surprised--Wife is from around there.
So, can your roofs hold the weight? They look flat.

The roofs are 3/4 inch pressboard(?), the same garbage that sauder funiture uses to make their products with. It's an old entertainment center I got from the girlfriend. Plus I'm outside snowmobiling enough that if I need to brush some snow off I can do that easily.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:37 pm

Thermocube is in a good spot.
Wouldn't put it any higher myself.

hey, I've got one of those very fine SAUDER pressboard pieces of furniture...even put it together myself.

Took all afternoon, and no tools, but it worked.
Edit I think I used a hammer just to nudge the little connectors in...
Mind you, the instruction sheet is pretty frayed from it all.

Pressboard is still better than "big chunk" OSB, which I call sawdust held with glue (which my big palm hut is made of).

Barb

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:59 pm

W says OSB stands for "oh shit board"

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:23 pm

That's funny Erik!

Hey, Jim, gotta ask:
What store did you get rolls of bubble wrap and foam from?
I was thinking of trying shipping places like Fedex, but have you got a suggestion?
It's a little late for trying to find it on the internet.

And, wheelman, sorry to derail your thread...

Barb

TimMAz6 · Post by **TimMAz6** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:52 pm

nice setup. Keep us posted on their progress.

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:34 pm

I'll post photos as it gets colder and I start to close them up.

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:27 pm

Can anyone tell me if these types give off heat?
I don't see them listed as LED, but they say ceramic.... not like what I have currently.
http://www.meijer.com/s/c9-ceramic-ligh ... _/R-163740
If anyone has a lead on a better price, please post a link.

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:30 pm

OOOOOHH! Just found these!
http://www.target.com/p/25-Clear-C9-Str ... A-13427685

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:33 pm

Oh, wow, that price will have the Canadians steaming.

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:42 pm

I paid about double the target price for my first strings.... plus those came with a warning about handing the wires and that there's lead on them! Nice chinese made stuff....

I'm going to stop at target after work and see if I can pick up a few strings. At that price it's worth stocking up, heck I could pull them out the box and sell them used on ebay for double the price I bet! LOL

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:56 am

Barb,

Big rolls of bubble wrap can be found at Walmart, SAMS club etc.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:22 am

For those of us that will "bundle" our windmills fronds together to over winter in palm hut, is it advisable to wrap it all up in burlap as well, then let string of christmas lights just rest at bottom plugged into the Thermocube?

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:51 am

lucky1 wrote:That's funny Erik!

Hey, Jim, gotta ask:
What store did you get rolls of bubble wrap and foam from?
I was thinking of trying shipping places like Fedex, but have you got a suggestion?
It's a little late for trying to find it on the internet.

And, wheelman, sorry to derail your thread...

Barb

This is what I bought Barb,sometimes Wal-mart has the small bubble wrap
in 25' rolls for around $7 maybe????

http://www.ebay.com/itm/290578354914?ss ... 1497.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/itm/160534720059?ss ... 1497.l2649

Wheelman

You should be able to find 25 C-9 or C-7 lights for $7 at Wal-Mart etc.

I think your Thermocube is in a good spot.

I try to build my enclosures as small as possible so I heat less area.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:35 am

Erik's right, wheelman...those light strings sure are cheap.
And like I said, BC government has a new law in place where it's now illegal to sell/buy incandescent bulbs/strings, although a few replacement bulbs can still be found on the back of a shelf here and there.
How nice, huh? Stooooopid morons = our provincial gov't.
They don't care about us palm growers!

Jim, glad you posted that link.
I thought the bubble wrap came in wider rolls, looks like 24" only.
So there'll be a lot of tying/taping while it's being built.

Thanks!
Barb

mnpalms · Post by **mnpalms** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:51 am

lucky1 wrote:Erik's right, wheelman...those light strings sure are cheap.
And like I said, BC government has a new law in place where it's now illegal to sell/buy incandescent bulbs/strings, although a few replacement bulbs can still be found on the back of a shelf here and there.
How nice, huh? Stooooopid morons = our provincial gov't.
They don't care about us palm growers!

Jim, glad you posted that link.
I thought the bubble wrap came in wider rolls, looks like 24" only.
So there'll be a lot of tying/taping while it's being built.

Thanks!
Barb

That crazy crap law is coming here soon also (USA). I think next year it goes into effect. I think I am going to stock up on a lifetime supply of normal light bulbs and stash them away. At least while they are still cheap... Those CFL bulbs don't work well at all, especially in the cold. Plus they are much worse for the environment. Why aren't the greenies stepping up to complain?!? Let's pollute more with mercury all in the name of saving a few cents on power. No actual savings are realized anyway since the bulbs cost 10X as much to begin with! Hopefully the law gets tossed out as the political winds are finally changing direction here.

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:54 pm

mnpalms wrote:
lucky1 wrote:Erik's right, wheelman...those light strings sure are cheap.
And like I said, BC government has a new law in place where it's now illegal to sell/buy incandescent bulbs/strings, although a few replacement bulbs can still be found on the back of a shelf here and there.
How nice, huh? Stooooopid morons = our provincial gov't.
They don't care about us palm growers!

Jim, glad you posted that link.
I thought the bubble wrap came in wider rolls, looks like 24" only.
So there'll be a lot of tying/taping while it's being built.

Thanks!
Barb
That crazy crap law is coming here soon also (USA). I think next year it goes into effect. I think I am going to stock up on a lifetime supply of normal light bulbs and stash them away. At least while they are still cheap... Those CFL bulbs don't work well at all, especially in the cold. Plus they are much worse for the environment. Why aren't the greenies stepping up to complain?!? Let's pollute more with mercury all in the name of saving a few cents on power. No actual savings are realized anyway since the bulbs cost 10X as much to begin with! Hopefully the law gets tossed out as the political winds are finally changing direction here.

I'm not positive, but I just saw a sheet at a local college laying out what gets phased out and when, and I made a point to look for 7watt c9 bulbs and I didn't see them listed anywhere. Maybe they aren't being outlawed if they're low enough wattage?

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:08 pm

Re gov't legislation on incandescent...why is it that dumb ideas spread like wildfire?

I'll stock up if I see any.
Maybe infrared heat lamps too.

They might outlaw baby chicks next.

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:47 pm

It's almost cheaper to just buy a $15 space heater.... it actually would have been cheaper for me to acually do that. I just saw a $12 heater from ace hardware that seemed pretty nice.... My only question would be about how much electricity a heater pulls vs a string of lights. Anyone have thoughts or experience of one vs the other?

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:25 am

Space heaters are usually between 750wts(lower setting)to 1500wts(higher setting),
whereas X-mas lights are (C-9) 9wts x 25 lights 225wts or (C-7)7wts x 25 lights 175wts.

It would be cheaper for you (initial cost)to but 2 space heaters at $15 a piece = $30
then to buy 6 strands of lights @$7 a piece $42.

The only thing is the space heater will cost more $$$ over the winter but should provide plenty of heat....
I think you would only need the lower(750wt) setting in each-
but there wcould be a greater chance of tripping your breaker(etc)unless you hook it up right....
maybe not on low-at 750 though.

I think with the size of your enclosures a space heater might work better than a bunch of
lights but next year you could make a smaller enclosure and only need one strand of lights.

My Washy enclosures were 4' tall and had 20 C-9 lights in each,this kept the 2
Washys above 35F all last winter on a Thermocube st up.

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:56 pm

hardyjim wrote:

I think with the size of your enclosures a space heater might work better than a bunch of
lights but next year you could make a smaller enclosure and only need one strand of lights.

My Washy enclosures were 4' tall and had 20 C-9 lights in each,this kept the 2
Washys above 35F all last winter on a Thermocube st up.

Those doors that I used for the sidewalls were at the right price (FREE from a dumpster), hence the size, plus I got some room to grow into them. As they outgrow them I'll be forced to do more 2x4 framing which can then have less of a foot print.

Off to target tonight to see if I can find those $7.99 C9 strands!

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:28 pm

Just got my Target C9's tonight. $7.99 per strand, mine had about 10 boxes of clear and 10 of multicolored and were just starting to put out the Christmas stuff.

Side note: I don't think we hit freezing last night but when I woke up this morning the thermocube had turned on my lights. Good to know those are working!

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:41 pm

Thermocubes are awesome-nice to know they are working....
that said,never trust them~meaning~keep a close eye on the
temps in side the enclosures,esp on days where there are temps
that can do them harm.

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:55 pm

I grabbed one extra when they were on sale at menards a while back just in case... but boy I don't I don't have to rip into the huts in the middle of the winter.

Sad note: Just looked at my fronds and saw when I pulled them up to tie them, one snapped at the base.... dangit it! Here's to good protection and that I'll actually get some new growth next year. Once I got mine in the ground this past July they pretty much just stayed stagnate, no growth at all.

mnpalms · Post by **mnpalms** » Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:04 am

I too just put my palm hut frame up. No walls or roof yet though. I wanted it to be ready in case I need to throw it all together quickly down the road. Our 2-week forecast looks fine but I'll be out of town for a week beginning tomorrow, back a few days, then down in Florida for another week. I figure when I get back at or around November 20th it will be time for full cover. At least that's what the long range forecast is showing... Mid/late Nov is about the normal time for covering in my yard. Though last year we got a foot of wet snow in Nov before I covered the palms. They didn't mind a bit!

I wouldn't worry about in-ground trachies until it looks like it will be getting under 20f at night unless they are very small and immature.

My enclosure is quite large cubic foot-wise. It houses a 7+ foot trachy, a 5.5+ footer, and a large trunked yucca of over 5 feet. All I use is a string of C7s and a string of C9s (clear) and a CFL fixture connected to a Thermocube. No extra mulch inside the enclosure. No lights touching any part of the trees or the ground inside. All lights suspended and zig-zagged throughout the enclosure. I do mulch around the outside of the enclosure heavily though. I use plastic leaf bags full of chopped up leaves and grass clippings. Just pack them tight against the enclosure all the way around it. Works like a charm, even at -20f it will maintain mid 30s inside.

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:05 am

Trachy(all palms I guess)are ll different in regard to how they take being moved/planted.

I have seen them not miss a beat and keep right on growing and in the case
of my B.eriospatha,it took 3 years for it to really get going.

mnpalms · Post by **mnpalms** » Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:57 am

I recommend watering the hell out of them. As long as they are properly planted in a decently draining soil, it has been my experience that in-ground trachies love tons of water, good clean non-chlorinated water. Back when I changed my watering schedule as an experiment, my trachies immediately responded with fast growth. Even though they always looked good it seems they grew very slowly. Then with much more frequent watering it seems they tripled in growth speed. I water almost every day during the summer now.

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:06 pm

mnpalms wrote: My enclosure is quite large cubic foot-wise. It houses a 7+ foot trachy, a 5.5+ footer, and a large trunked yucca of over 5 feet. All I use is a string of C7s and a string of C9s (clear) and a CFL fixture connected to a Thermocube. No extra mulch inside the enclosure. No lights touching any part of the trees or the ground inside. All lights suspended and zig-zagged throughout the enclosure. I do mulch around the outside of the enclosure heavily though. I use plastic leaf bags full of chopped up leaves and grass clippings. Just pack them tight against the enclosure all the way around it. Works like a charm, even at -20f it will maintain mid 30s inside.

I like your hanging lights idea.... I may do that now that I have three strands per tree.

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:47 pm

wheelman1976 wrote:
mnpalms wrote: My enclosure is quite large cubic foot-wise. It houses a 7+ foot trachy, a 5.5+ footer, and a large trunked yucca of over 5 feet. All I use is a string of C7s and a string of C9s (clear) and a CFL fixture connected to a Thermocube. No extra mulch inside the enclosure. No lights touching any part of the trees or the ground inside. All lights suspended and zig-zagged throughout the enclosure. I do mulch around the outside of the enclosure heavily though. I use plastic leaf bags full of chopped up leaves and grass clippings. Just pack them tight against the enclosure all the way around it. Works like a charm, even at -20f it will maintain mid 30s inside.
I like your hanging lights idea.... I may do that now that I have three strands per tree.

I may need to set up my sprinkler well pump with a hose bib so that I can do just that next year. Seems the sprinklers aren't getting enough to them? I was just thinking they were stressed from being just planted in July....

PalmsNorth.com

Got my palm hut frames up!

Got my palm hut frames up!

Who is online