Chameadorea radicalis

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:46 am

This is for Jesse, but more broadly as an attempt to get y'all to try Chameadorea radicalis.
I think it is a pretty little palm and likely the toughest of the genus.
Most of the genus need shade, but my three get nearly full sun and intense heat. I plant Musa and pot-plant palms nearby to try to give them some shade.
They definitely need serious winter protection for all of us. Their advantage is having no real trunk, much like Sabal minor. This lets them recover in spring even if they are defoliated. My three were defoliated, but all three are growing now. The best is sending up a flower spike (photo). The worse affected by cold (a bit visible on extreme right of photo) is putting out a good-looking leaf now.

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/2 ... site"><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-gfFG ... C_0061.JPG" height="425" width="640" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/terdalfarm ... site">July Nikon test</a></td></tr></table>

Okanagan desert-palms · Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:10 pm

Erik how cold did the chameadorea get last winter? I might try one if I could find one here to plant.

John

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:17 pm

W built a greenhouse over them and I put in a heater and IR lamp on a thermocube. Worked great all through January (photos on another thread). They were growing all through January.
Then the record cold hit, and it briefly got to +8 F in there when it was -22 F outside.
Clearly, these little palms need protection with heat for all of us. But they are so small it would not be hard. The greenhouse was over the top. The simple system I used for my avatar Butia (heat tape around trunk and water jugs, buried in loose hay, large bucket over it all) would have been better. Live and learn.
Anyway, give 'em a try. I have one from Cistus and two from Junglemusic. --Erik

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:35 pm

Nice to see it flower.

The one at right, "affected by cold"...is that cold damage?
My Bottle palm fronds look like that.
But it didn't see any cold during winter in the house.

I've seen books with disease ID that say Potassium deficiency resembles that frizzled brown end appearance.
Many many palms in Florida exhibit Potassium defic because sandy soils so readily wash away nutrients in heavy rains.

Barb

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:16 pm

Good observation.
No, that fried leaf is new this year (as they all are on all three). I suspect---sun damage.
That one gets the most sun.
I did add epsom salts and 0-0-60 (+ my usual osmocote) to all palms.
The new leaf on that damaged one looks good.
Add sun/nutrients/cold recovery interaction to my research list....

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 4:30 am

Wow they look good... and flowering!

If I remember reading right, there are 2 forms. "radicalis" sends out its flower stalk closer to the ground, and as you say has no real visible trunk. "arborescent" sends upward flowering stalks, and actualy froms a decent trunk, not unlike the favorite "parlor palm".

These babies would probably do excellent on the PNW coast. Vancouvers record low is -12C, which is only a few degrees lower then its recorded hardiness. IT almost seems like these guys are as tough as Trachys?

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 4:39 am

Mine are all the kind that send flower stalks up from the base.
Yes, I bet the coast would be good.
They grow in tamaulipas Mexico which is hot and dry, which explains how they can love my summers. So, I think much of the southern US would be good.

I grew my first in a pot for years. You could do that, Jesse.

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 4:03 pm

I tried to grow it from seed, the arborescent type. The seeds rotted. Probably bad soil mix and or to much water.....

Ill eventualy get my hands on one of these babies... Im glad yours is doin so good.

I always thought they liked shade and cooler conditions :S LOL

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 4:53 pm

always thought they liked shade and cooler conditions

Me too.

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 6:34 am

they are apperantly really adaptive. They grow in shady undergrowth in tropical mexico, but i read that they can grow in texas, in full sun. From what i gathered they seem to do better in shade, but can really grow in most places as long as they get water. They seem really odd for chamedorea concidering almost all of them only do well in shade or filtered light.

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:06 am

Chameadorea is a big genus. The ones I see in Belize are understory rainforest plants. (Information on them in Belize: http://www.belizebotanic.org/xate.html).
I have two Belizean rainforest Xate palms in pots (photo). They spend summer on the east-facing front porch and winter indoors. In Spring, they were on the back patio and got too much sun.

C. radicalis is from Tamaulipas, Mexico. That is a desert latitude, and they grow in rocky mountains under pines and evergreen oaks. The habitat photos I have seen suggest that they get a fair bit of sun, plus of course heat and dry soil and winds. Those same mountains got very cold in February when El Paso, Texas, got so very cold. Hence, I think this is the best palm in the genus for those of us pushing the limits. Give 'em a try!

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/3 ... site"><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-QreV ... 073423.jpg" height="600" width="800" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/terdalfarm ... site">July 2011</a></td></tr></table>

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:57 am

I couldnt find anything stating they live in dryer areas in their natural habitat. Then again, you have more reliable sources then the net does im sure.

They seem to have an adaptable range anyways (mabey the trunkless form, is an adaptation to the heat? Then again, could be the cold as well....). Some dealer in florida said the seedlings got hit with -12C, with just some leaf damage, and they all fully recovered, but im not sure if they were the trunkless, or arborescent type, the article never said.

I did the same thing with my parlour palm last year. I fried the hell outta the leaves, and they grow so slow it didnt recover well till a few weeks ago.

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:06 am

I spent some cold winter nights planning a trip to Tamaulipas to see C. radicalis in habitat.
However, Tamaulipas is now one of the most dangerous places on Earth (Zeta gang runs it; the central gov't sent in the army but no one is sure they are armed well enough to take on the Zetas).
No go for a long time, I'm afraid.

Jesse, I linked to the Belize Botanic Garden again as that is where I think you should go do a 30-day volunteer stint helping with Chamaedorea research....

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:32 am

id love too, but 2 things... Money, and id probably never leave... LOL

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:39 am

I hear you!

But forgive me if I keep planting the bug in your ear....
Anyway, back outside to dig up and pot C. radicalis.

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:03 am

It isnt a problem dude, the way I look at it, is its a sign... Ill end up there one day im sure of it, thanks for the tip