Tulsa Zoo Sabal minor

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:44 pm

Sorry for another Sabal minor thread. I am rather obsessed with them right now. Feel free to ignore, but I hope you read and comment on these delightful and rather cold-hardy palms.

The Tulsa Zoo has had Sabal minor in three beds for a long time. At least one of the beds has had mature plants for all of the 16 years that the present head horticulturist has worked there. They are naturalizing.

The Tulsa Zoo is just north (about 1 km ) of the Tulsa Airport, the official NWS site for Tulsa. This means that we have excellent historic weather data. This link goes to the wunderground summary for February 2011 but from there you can get any other data you like. http://classic.wunderground.com/history ... l#calendar

In brief, the low so far has been -12 F (that is -24 C). There was about of foot (30 cm) of fresh snow on the ground then, although it was wind-blown so more in some place and less elsewhere; a total of about two feet (60 cm) had fallen in the ten days preceding the coldest weather.

I went to the Zoo today. I talked to the head horticulturist. I also took some snap-shots of the Sabal minor (plus a bonus at the end of their sole needle palm). I think they are interesting as to me they show the beneficial effects of snow cover. None have received any artificial protection.

IMO, none of the palms will die.

ROBRETI · Post by **ROBRETI** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:42 pm

Hi Erik,

The obsession is mine! I just love its large, blueish leaves and wish that they survive my Oakville winter. I confirm that the snow cover makes wonders; I can see exactly how high it was, the leaves over that line turned brown whereas under it, they are so beautiful... The snow definitely helped the Texas palmetto (x Brazoria), too, which is in principle a bit more sensitive than the main species.

I have not seen any damages on the needle palms!

We had about -20 C for a couple of days in Oakville, so this is a good - hopefully successful - test. I covered only the bases of the palms and whenever I had snow, I shoveled it on them, but that is it...

More news to come in spring!
Take care,
Rob

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:01 pm

Obviously even a light canopy PLUS snow cover is the recipe for success.
Good pics Erik, thanks.

Barb

Wes North Van · Post by **Wes North Van** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:57 pm

You are fortunate to be able to get sabal minors there.
There are none here and we won't even have to protect them.
They would breeze through our winters.

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:08 am

Wes, Sabal minor is irritatingly difficult to obtain here. No nursery in the Tulsa metropolitan sells them even though they clearly grow here, and there is a local interest in native plants.

The nearest nursery that sells them, Bustani, is a retirement project of a horticulture professor in the college town of Stillwater. It does mail order, but not of palms. The owner gathered seeds from McCurtain county and has grown them up to 1 gallon size for local sales. He (Steve Owen) is only open a few weekends each year but I'll try to get out to see them in April.
I have two Sabal minor I bought from Amazing Gardens in Oklahoma City--a north Texas ecotype and a "Lou".
My own small ones were dug up from the Tulsa Zoo for me by the head horticulturist, but Sabal do not transplant well. In the meantime, I am growing some from seed I gathered in north Texas (Fort Worth) in 2009.
You have heard of "get rich quick" schemes? It seems that growing Sabal minor from seed to 5 gallon size for mail order sales internationally would be a great, "make a few bucks slowly" scheme for some dumb entrepreneur.

--Erik

Wes North Van · Post by **Wes North Van** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:24 am

Erik, I have thought of that but we just don't get enough summer heat so they grow soooooo slow.
I have some that are 4 - 5 years old and they still do not have a mature frond yet.
Our winters are mild but our summers just do not get past 85F very often.
I may just have to wait for my seedlings to grow and plant them out.
I hope I live long enough to see that.

TimMAz6 · Post by **TimMAz6** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:17 pm

those minors seemed to get fried above the snow line. Nice update, thanks for posting.

Paul Ont · Post by **Paul Ont** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:53 am

Yes thanks a lot for that Erik....

I find it strange, first that palms are easy to find here in So. Ontario (At least 3 different nurseries carry them, more if you include nurseries that carry Butia and Windmills as 'patio' palms) but hard to find where they might actually be hardy Vancouver (certainly some palms are 100% hardy) and Northern OK (a bit more of a stretch). Wes, you can ask Kevin at Southcoast. He has not only Sabal minor and Rhapidophyllum, but also things like S. 'Birmingham', S. minor 'Brazoria', etc.

Wes North Van · Post by **Wes North Van** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:22 am

Thanks Paul.
I will try them.
Sabal minor and needles have proven to be hardy here.
They breeze through our winters even with the rain.
Yes you have to make sure that the soil drains well but I even have cactus that survives here.
We do have native cactus also that grows in sunny drier locations.

Paul Ont · Post by **Paul Ont** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:32 am

Wes- I presumed that any palm that we grow here (with the exception of Washingtonia) would be bullet-proof out there. 2 Full USDA zones will do that!

We have only 2 native cacti in Ontario, 1 the Eastern Prickly pear (Opuntia humifusa; This is at Turkey Point):
<a href="http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2998 ... JODR"><img src="http://inlinethumb26.webshots.com/46041 ... 600Q85.jpg" alt="imgp0973"></a>

The other is the brittle prickly pear, Opuntia fragilis (the same one that grows on the West Coast). This is near Kaladar in Eastern Ontario. This area is also prime lizard habitat!
<a href="http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2978 ... Jyxy"><img src="http://inlinethumb41.webshots.com/46632 ... 600Q85.jpg" alt="picture 006a"></a>

I beleive that B.C. has 2 confirmed cactus 'species' (O. fragilis and O. x columbiana) and possibly a few others (O. polyacantha, E. vivipara, and P. simpsonii)...

Wes North Van · Post by **Wes North Van** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:34 pm

Just and update to this post.
I know have four needles and three sabal minors now.
My largest sabal is about four feet and has been in the ground three years.
I just ordered a seven footer from CoconutMike.
My largest needle is also about four feet but I have a really wide 30 gallon that is about three feet tall but about 6 feet in diameter. I also have one that has been in the ground for five years. Hasn't grown much but that is to be expected with cool summers. I just ordered a seven footer from Mike.
I also have a seven foot waggie fortunei hybrid coming on the same shipment.
Looking forward to them arriving in May.
It is going to make the back yard so full of palms. Can't wait.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:40 am

Wes,

It's a given that sabals and needles would make it in Vancouver, if they survive the rains.
Has Vancouver ever seen -24C (referred to in Erik's original post as the Tulsa Zoo mins).

Looking forward to seeing photos of that 7 foot waggie hybrid.

and your Trachies again when they bloom.
Spectacular I bet.

Barb

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:06 am

Reminder, the Tulsa Zoo foliage above the snow line all died at that temperature.

Wes North Van · Post by **Wes North Van** » Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:53 am

Barb, I have been down to -9C once since I started recording temps and that was in 2008.. I started planting palms in 1994 and I am sure 2008 was my coldest year. That was the year we got to -9C.
My last two years lows have been -4C and this winter so far -2.6C. I think that would put my last two winters as a zone 9b.
The rain doesn't seem to be a problem but the lack of summer heat makes them grow sooooooo slowly.

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:46 pm

I was at the Tulsa Zoo today for other reasons and decided to take a cell phone snapshot to show you how a representative Sabal minor there looks today.
In brief, they all look great and continue to naturalize.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/drterdal/8553103858/" title="IMAG1613.jpg by drterdal, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8510/8553 ... 75b7_z.jpg" width="383" height="640" alt="IMAG1613.jpg"></a>

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Mar 12, 2013 5:15 pm

Thanks Erik for that -24C reminder; I had forgotten that.
Lovely Sabal pic from today, just imagine in another 20 years what that area will look like.
Sabals growing wild on traffic islands, curbsides, mixed deciduous forests..

Oh man, Wes, a 9b...I'd have to buy a power auger for all the palms I'd be planting.

Will trade heat for rain (our metered water rates just increased by 50 per cent..yup, fifty!)
And a 9b.

Barb

InsanePalmNinja · Post by **InsanePalmNinja** » Tue Mar 12, 2013 5:32 pm

That is hard to see Sabal Minor burned that bad. its like a night mare to me.

Henoh_Croatia · Post by **Henoh_Croatia** » Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:14 am

Erik, thanks for update. Here in Zagreb Botanical garden Sabal minor was frozen and died in winter 1984/85 after prolonged period of cold weather with same absolute minimum temperature -24C.

Today, they growing Sabal minors only in big pots. Also they have one big Trachycarpus fortunei planted outside few years ago.

I have one Sabal minor (sprouted in 2008). This is mother plant

Young palm

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:46 pm

Henoh, that mother plant is so blue at first glance thought it was a Bismarckia.
Looks beautifully grown.

What is the age of the Sabal in second pic?

Barb

Henoh_Croatia · Post by **Henoh_Croatia** » Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:07 pm

Barb, I'm not sure. Maybe 15-20 years from seed to this stage. There is an another one, much bigger than first.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:24 pm

Wow, I'm amazed at how beautiful they can be.
Nice that they can look so good while still in a container.

How old is the juvenile in the pot, Henoh (in the second photo of your previous post)?

Barb

Henoh_Croatia · Post by **Henoh_Croatia** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:07 am

Barb, second picture is also mother plant with close up flower stalk (flowered in June 2008).

chadec · Post by **chadec** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:52 am

Those are very nice minors and trunking too. Wonder what they would look like if they were growing in ground

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:57 am

Sorry, I can't count...meant the third photo, Henoh.

Henoh_Croatia · Post by **Henoh_Croatia** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:05 am

Juvenile palm is almost 5 years old. Old palms have old irregular names on the label - Sabal havanensis. I assume, because of obvious beginning of trunk, it could be Sabal louisiana (or Sabal minor var. louisiana).

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:24 am

Incredible size already for 5 years.

My 3 little Sabals look like seedlings compared to yours...and mine are over 5 years old.

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:55 am

Very impressive growth! The ones at the Tulsa Zoo take years to get that size.
Took more photos in habitat in McCurtain County yesterday; I'l show them on a new thread. Suffice to say they do not look as nice as these do (although still pretty).

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