Some of the plants that didn't make it!

Paul Ont · Post by **Paul Ont** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:09 am

I'm going back into my records to look for photos of plants that never made it... I haven't kept track of these very well, and there are far more from before I ever owned a digital camera (got my first one in 2005). I planted my first 'exotic' garden back in 1999, it consisted of a non-hardy palm (Phoenix I believe) which perished shortly after planting, 'Hardy' sugar cane (perished first winter), Holly (Perished after 2 winters), Rhododendron (lasted 2-3 years before I bothered to read up on their requirements), and Yucca filamentosa (now a weed that I can't get rid of)... I planted some Yucca glauca the following year (from Queen's University) and then moved on from there into hardy cacti. I began growing palms in my first year of university back in 2001/02. None of those palms have survived due to roommate neglect when I went home for the summer! Whoops.

Anyway, here are some pics from back in the day:
The old cactus bed dismantled in 2007/08, pic from 2005: <img src="http://inlinethumb03.webshots.com/33794 ... 600Q85.jpg" alt="IMGP0031">

My Yucca elata pre-transplant, it got much smaller before taking off in the new location:
<img src="http://inlinethumb38.webshots.com/6757/ ... 600Q85.jpg" alt="IMGP0037">

My old joshua tree.. It did not survive the transplant:
<img src="http://inlinethumb02.webshots.com/27073 ... 600Q85.jpg" alt="IMGP0038">

Anyone in Canada remember Cusheon Creek? Here's a short-lived A. neomexicana I got from them:
<img src="http://inlinethumb23.webshots.com/16854 ... 600Q85.jpg" alt="IMGP0042"></a>

My longest lived Yucca baccata. Did not survive the transplant to the new garden, and none of those planted since have been hardy:
<img src="http://inlinethumb01.webshots.com/44928 ... 600Q85.jpg" alt="IMGP0044">

Not my garden, just some 30'+ Rhodo's in Halifax:
<img src="http://inlinethumb46.webshots.com/45869 ... 600Q85.jpg" alt="IMGP0094"></a>

Giant Sequoia in zone 4b, I thought this was a great idea:
<img src="http://inlinethumb40.webshots.com/9191/ ... 600Q85.jpg" alt="GiantSequoiadead">

Phyllostachys aurea 'koi' dead in spring... It's a zone 7 plant, so it's really not surprising:
<img src="http://inlinethumb22.webshots.com/46741 ... 600Q85.jpg" alt="PaureaDead">

Poncirus, I've tried perhaps 15 of these over the years. This one did the best before perishing over the summer:
<img src="http://inlinethumb20.webshots.com/2899/ ... 600Q85.jpg" alt="IMGP0914">

First year needle palm (now deceased, 2010) looked pretty bad in the spring of 2006 (protection was frost cloth):
<img src="http://inlinethumb50.webshots.com/42737 ... 600Q85.jpg" alt="IMGP0927">
Ditto for T. fortunei:
<img src="http://inlinethumb64.webshots.com/34815 ... 600Q85.jpg" alt="IMGP0924">

My yellow flowered Opuntia phaecantha... Has always been borderline here... It generally comes out of winter looking terrible. Here's a success story though, all other forms (except 1) have proved almost bullet proof for me. Must just be the origin of this guy:
<img src="http://inlinethumb06.webshots.com/45509 ... 600Q85.jpg" alt="Sickphaecantha">

More recently, these Sabal minor don't look too bad after their first year. The McCurtain did try to come back the 'regular' was killed outright:
<img src="http://inlinethumb31.webshots.com/41950 ... 600Q85.jpg" alt="winter0809xmas and SPRING09 034">

Even when things look great in spring they can suprise... This Yucca nana looks ok, but, I assure you, it's dead inside:
<img src="http://inlinethumb48.webshots.com/44975 ... 600Q85.jpg" alt="winter0809xmas and SPRING09 037">

Same story for this large Yucca thompsoniana:
<img src="http://inlinethumb30.webshots.com/45661 ... 600Q85.jpg" alt="imgp1092">

AND this Yucca gloriosa vriegata. it did come back from the roots for the summer before disappearing forever:
<img src="http://inlinethumb22.webshots.com/39573 ... 600Q85.jpg" alt="Yucca glorisa">

Hesperaloe parviflora... The damage on this is a little more obvious:
<img src="http://inlinethumb56.webshots.com/8439/ ... 600Q85.jpg" alt="florida07andcactussprng08 030">

I thought I had photos of some of the other stuff I've killed over the years... The first batch of Musa basjoo was noteworthy... I had to special order them from BC and there was no information on overwintering them in zone 5... So I stuck a pot over them and mulched. They did not come back!

Luckily, through shared experiences I've had better luck since. it just took me a while to realize what gardening in zone 4b/5a was like!
<img src="http://inlinethumb39.webshots.com/46566 ... 600Q85.jpg" alt="204">

TimMAz6 · Post by **TimMAz6** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:39 pm

Hi Paul,

just too cold! Too bad to see all the nice plants die from winter cold..........but if you didn't experiment you would never know if they could survive. Don't give up on Y. baccata as I've read reports they can take some cold temps but need to by dry in winter. I bet some of the newer Yucca hybrids like filamentosa x rostrata may improve hardiness.......only time will tell.

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:59 pm

Paul,
thanks for sharing. I know it is painful/embarrassing, but I think we learn more from failures (and subsequent analysis) than success. It is all well and good to say, "look how great ____ looks!" but we also need stories like yours.
Then we can share our successes/failures to try to collectively figure out what they need to thrive.
In that spirit, I'll add that a fairly large, in-ground two years Phyllsotachys aurea I had died this past winter despite mulching and snow cover. I'm trying with another I got cheap, but in short you're right: not the best choice for cold winter areas.
--Erik

Paul Ont · Post by **Paul Ont** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 2:55 am

TerdalFarm wrote:Paul,
thanks for sharing. I know it is painful/embarrassing, but I think we learn more from failures (and subsequent analysis) than success. It is all well and good to say, "look how great ____ looks!"
--Erik

Erik- I totally agree. The posts that Jim made of his dead/recovering Trachys are very informative.

Maybe you know about another topic I was thinking about. I have some Phyllostachys that I think are getting smaller each year. Now, John from CO had his theory about palm damage and the 'threshold' necessary for recovery. I've not heard about it in non-palms, but I assume it also applies. Any experience with a plant that refuses to die, but keeps getting smaller year after year? I can think of a few examples, one of my Rhodies, all my Aucuba, those Phyllostachys, some of my hollies, etc. There are also the plants that get damaged but keep growing, like paw-paw and willow-oak, which generally get damaged but continue to add size. I think it's quite interesting.

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 7:58 am

Paul

I guess some plants have a lot more bullets than most single shot palms and they keep on ticking!

Here's a recent shot(10-8-10) of one of the trunk cut Trachys-

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:33 am

Wow, Jim, you definitely are the king of trunk-cutting.
So why didn't it work for my Naini Tal (RIP)???
I still think leaves AFTER trunk cutting look better than prior-to-damage.
Almost like a related species. Wonder why.

Paul, thanks for posting that informative recap.
Interesting that your first palm in 99 was a Phoenix...tough way to start

Interesting observation you made:

Any experience with a plant that refuses to die, but keeps getting smaller year after year?

That's exactly what's happening to my Bottle Palm.
When I bought it 2,3 years?? ago, there was 6 inches before its emerging spear would have scraped the popcorn off my 8-foot ceiling.
Each successive spear (and bottles don't get a lot of them, one or two a year) is shorter.
Today there's a clear 2 feet to the ceiling.

Warning of decline, leading to death spiral? or just a smaller palm that might live another 20 years?

Sad to see what didn't make it Paul, glad your Y.elata is healthy. So is mine, but growth is slow.

Here's my latest soon to be RIP...my Yucca (incorrectly labeled rostrata), damaged after last winter.
One head is still alive, barely (no point in trunk cutting, since the process only works if your name is Jim!)

It used to look like this...

This learning process is getting painful, and expensive.

Great post topic, Paul.
Barb

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 1:13 pm

Now and last Sept

Not to shabby

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Oct 09, 2010 9:39 am

Not too shabby...I'd trade my knowledge for yours in a heartbeat.
But you'd get the raw deal.

TimMAz6 · Post by **TimMAz6** » Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:53 pm

Hi Barb,

your 'rostrata' has a nice offset emerging........I'm sure that will take off on you! Good luck!

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Oct 09, 2010 7:47 pm

Thanks Tim, but that offset was huge ... forming part of the two-headed Yucca (picture didn't show that part).
I fear even that's declining too, only 1/5 the size it was before winter.
Barb

DesertZone · Post by **DesertZone** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:54 pm

Good post Paul. I too have had many things die over the years and I have some things that I tried and tried untill I found one that would survive. I never give up, well I have given up on palms here. But I have found lots of good subs.

ScottyON · Post by **ScottyON** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:02 pm

Nice pics Paul. How's your needle and sable that are protected in your palm hut? Any pics of that?? How'd your big rhodo's doing too??

Paul Ont · Post by **Paul Ont** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:49 am

Holy smokes.. I leave for the weekend and come back to some really interesting conversation!

From the top:
Barb- The palm was a potted dwarf Phoenix. It made it until November, I hadn't done any research at that point, so did not even consider the idea of protecting it from the cold. I agree with Tim that your Yucca will come back. The top rotted, but Yuccas are really resilient... be patient. I've even had Yucca glauca do that before.

Jim- It looks like you have more than enough GDD for Trachycarpus to make a full recovery. I am very impressed with that recovery. I won't post the pics of my old 'test' palm that declined over the years... It was never able to reach equilibrium and died this past summer (or winter...), conditions probably were a contributing factor.

Desertzone- Don't give up on palms! I've been accused of being negative, but I think that anyone can get palms through the winter with a little help! I mean, look at that guy in Winnipeg! Also- You've been successful with Yucca brevifolia, and I have to think that there are palms as tough as Joshua tree!

Scott- The needle and Sabal are doing OK. The Sabal is finally looking like a palm again, I think it grew 1 full leaf this year! The needle is growing well. I might try to push them a little harder next year with an extra fertilizer application. I also have 3 good sized S. minor NE Texas that I will plant out next spring, perhaps with the new Sabal 'Brazoria' and 'Birmingham', which I will plant out front by the Musa basjoo. I've been lazy with all those Trachycarpus seedlings, I need to just send them to people or plant them all out.

The Rhodo's are OK. Those that are a little exposed, or that start into growth early (the big one, R. brachycarpum ssp. tigerstedtii, included) got the new growth frosted, so this years leaves are slightly deformed. For whatever reason Rhodo leaves that are frost damaged continue to grow but have sever distortions making them far less attractive... Anyway.

I'm within a hair of adding Gunnera to the lost list. I dug it out and it now has 1 tiny leaf. I hope I can get it to a respectable size over the winter and plant it out again in 2 years time! I also lost a Magnolia macrophyllum this summer (rabbits, that's 3 that I've lost, 2 to rabbits, 1 to summer drought) and an 'evergreen' Azalea.

Paul Ont · Post by **Paul Ont** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:49 am

Double Post. Please ignore.

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:10 am

lucky1 wrote:Not too shabby...I'd trade my knowledge for yours in a heartbeat.
But you'd get the raw deal.

Barb

if I ended up as cool as you I would still gain something

All I did was take the saw out!

Paul

just because you are away for a while doesn't mean you get to double post!

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:29 am

All I did was take the saw out!

I did that too. Must be my technique, which includes considerable swearing.

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:33 am

lucky1 wrote:
All I did was take the saw out!
I did that too. Must be my technique, which includes considerable swearing.

The only thing I left out was that my palms told
me they were in trouble!

DesertZone · Post by **DesertZone** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:21 pm

Thanks Paul, I will take your advice and try a sabal minor, wish him luck.

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:35 pm

Yes, try Sabal minor!
If you don't mind doing a mail order for a small one, Stokes Tropicals has a 75% off all plants sale right now Their website still says 65% off, but on Facebook they promise 75% off all plants, for everybody. That puts S. minor at US$5 + s&h right now.
At that price, it wouldn't hurt to try a few. --Erik

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:38 am

THanks for the post paul. Your information will make things alot easier for me, and other people in similar climates.

Those Rhodos form NS are pimp. Almost a perfect climate for them am i right?

As ive said before, theres a difference between being negative, and realistic and trying to help. ID say your more realistic and helpful then anything.

Hey jim.... in that pic of the trunk cut Trachy, is that the double sunset serenade Morning glories? Mine were still flowering after a frost.

Paul Ont · Post by **Paul Ont** » Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:27 am

Jesse- I hope my reply to your Aucuba post was OK.

In NS Rhodies grow like weeds. Just stick them in the ground and they'll sky-rocket. I do have some pics of some large leaved Himalayan species growing in the zone 7 reaches of the Southwest of the province. They are very impressive. The ones at the Public gardens in Halifax are giant. I believe they are now well over 100 years old.

One you might consider is Rhododendron maximum. It is native into New York state (and New Hampshire, Vermont, Maine), can grow to over 20' (I think there are some in the Southern Appalachians that are closer to 40') and can take cold (reportedly) into the -30's C. I can vouch for -28C personally. I have to think that northern selections could take spells around -40.

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:21 am

I have a small azalea " lolipop". Labeled exubury ( spelling?). Looked it up, hardy to zone 5. Like you and your rhodies, i just planted my azalea, which now has some yellowing leaves. Needs some blood/bonemeal in the spring and it should flower. I was thinking of getting a rhodie. There were a few that were 5 bucks at the end of the season ( reg 12 or 15 cant remember). My grandma has one, bout 4 feet tall, looked really really healthy last time i seen it. Been threre for 10 years. Then again, shes has a small almond shrub ( seems to be perennial here) for the last 5.

Paul Ont · Post by **Paul Ont** » Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:42 am

Glad your Azalea has budded. The leaves should fall (they're deciduous) and some do, in fact, have good fall colour. I think the ones that I have, mostly northern lights, have reddish fall colour. Ive never tired an 'Exbury' Azalea, but they are listed as hardy to -25f (~-32C). I never know if the low rating is for flowering the following spring, or stem die back. I must admit that I am looking forward to a splendid flowering next spring in my neck of the woods, every one of my Rhodies and Azaleas has budded really well. I hope for a mild winter so they actually do flower in the spring!

Do you know the selection that your Grandma grows? Some of those Finnish plants are exceptionally hardy (they struggle here due to the summer heat, but, I have some plants with the same parentage that have been selected for performance in So. Ontario). An interesting note is that the species present as a parent in all of those Finnish plants (brachycarpum var. tigerstedtii, I think I mentioned before that it is the hardiest elepidote Rhody) is a splendid plant in itself, but nearly impossible to find!

Here's what it looks like in winter (or anytime it's below about 0C):
<img src="http://inlinethumb44.webshots.com/43883 ... 600Q85.jpg" alt="047">
and here's what it looks like in early April of the same year!
<img src="http://inlinethumb30.webshots.com/45213 ... 600Q85.jpg" alt="DSC02474">

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:26 pm

She wont know. Shes forgotten all her rose names as well ( shes on the ball trust me, shes got alot of stuff is all), althoigh i could ask her. IT looks like a bonsai specimin ( i know she doesnt bonsai). Mine flowered within a month of being planted ( theres pic on my " pushing the limits of cold hardiness" thread. Im going to have to plant something thatll shade it. Im going to bury it in leaves this winter at least. ITs in a warm corner ( the same spot my passiflora and cyperus survived the frost). Ive done everything wrong, and it still flowered and grew decent. Next year it should put in a good show. Im assuming they flower a bit later in the year here? I know GM rhodie has flowered each year here...........

THe one thing im really hoping to survive well is my Hibiscus "luna red".....

PalmsNorth.com

Some of the plants that didn't make it!

Some of the plants that didn't make it!

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