Miracle-Gro ok for palms?

Bgoins12 · Post by **Bgoins12** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:21 pm

So the little card on my Chinese Fan Palm I have in my room recommends I fertilize it once a month. I picked up some Miracle-Gro Indoor plant food spikes. Are these ok to fertilize it with, or will I need to buy a palm specific food? If not, should I just follow the directions on the package? Any help would be great.

BILL MA · Post by **BILL MA** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:50 pm

A good 10-10-10 miracle grow would be better I would thing or something along those lines. You just mix it with the water and water it in. A fertilizer spike might burn the roots if it's a smaller palm tree. I've never used the spikes before personally.

Bill

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:19 pm

Miracle Gro makes plant spikes for different types of plants.

What are the N P K numbers on the spike package? (in that order)

Bill has great success with his palms, but if you lack some experience growing palms, you might want to read this info:

The only remotely "universal" fertilizer type is palm fertilizer

Palm fertilizer is now the ONLY remaining fertilizer you can buy that reliably has "minor elements" in the mix. Minor elements include iron, zinc, manganese, magnesium, boron, etc..

In the past two years, even palm fertilizers have degraded in content. Many palm fertilizers now are almost "junk" in quality. Remember, cheap price = cheap contents (food value)

The latest University of Florida recommendation for palms is to use 8-4-12. Palm fertilizer should automatically include 3-4% of both magnesium and manganese

Critical:

Extra sensitive palms like pygmy date palms, sagos, queen palms, royal palm, foxtail and paurotis will probably die without these critical nutrients. To be 100% sure, go ahead and by both magnesium and manganese as separate supplements to apply when you apply regular palm fertilizer

Taken from this link...the rest of the article is excellent too.
http://mgonline.com/articles/fertilize.aspx

Barb

BILL MA · Post by **BILL MA** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:41 pm

Barb,
That was a really good link for fertilizer. I burn most of my palm tips from the juice, most of you know this

Bill

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:43 am

Bill,
Ah, what's a little burn when your palms are throwing 20 fronds...

I bought two huge jugs of that "palm special fert" out of White Plains New York (to make the shipping worthwhile).
Has humic acid in it, and chelated trace which are important.
Smells brutal, I think I could just let the palms smell the bottle cap and they'd grow

bgoins12, I don't want to badmouth MG, but have heard time and time again that palms did better on, say, Peter's fertilizer, than MG.
Don't think Peters has a palm fertilizer, though so be careful with 20-20-20.
Just try to maintain the N P K ratio of 2-1-3, so 8-4-12 is good, 6-3-9 maintains the same ratio, and so on.
Just remember the manganese and magnesium usually aren't included, and that's what most palms need to thrive.

Magnesiium is easy to provide, just pick up epsom salts at your drugstore. Cheap. Dilute a teaspoon in large watering can.
It's a great "tonic" for greening up plants, they love it.
Manganese can be bought separately too, but I've never done that so I don't know how much to use.

Plus...resist the urge to buy potting soil that has fertilizer in it.
It's just a marketing scheme.

Chinese Fan Palms like really high humidity; maybe mist twice a day.
(This coming from the person who almost killed one!)

It's coming back finally.

Let us know how your Chinese Fan does.
Barb

Bgoins12 · Post by **Bgoins12** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:24 am

Sorry it took me so long to respond....

The spikes I have are 6-12-6... these are the ones

http://www.scotts.com/smg/catalog/produ ... bs=general

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:41 pm

Hi bgoins12,

Too much phosphorus (the middle number). Palms don't need a lot of P.

That's why ratio of 2-1-2 or 2-1-3 is now recommended for palms, as long as magnesium and manganese are also provided.
Palms really benefit from chelated trace elements, as most good palm fertilizers include.

I dug around and found a very old Jobe's Plant Food Spike package (that I haven't used).
It's 16-2-6 and says "for lush ferns and palms".
Those numbers--while not bang on--are pretty good and will provide considerable green up because of the 16 N...a little high, but OK.

Your 6-12-6 is not for palms.
Because the middle number (P) is higher than the rest, your fertilizer is good for plants that bloom, like hibiscus and many flowering houseplants or outdoor flowers.

Hope this helps.
Barb

Okanagan desert-palms · Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:32 pm

Barb that`s great info on fertilizer. I think a teaspoon of epsom salts may be a little low per large watering can. I got info from a another palm site a few years ago and it has stuck with me. 1 tablespoon per gallon of water. It might be best to disolve the epsom salts in a warm to hot cup stir then pour it in the gallon jug. Always makes my palms smile green

The palm fertilizer I use after treating them all with the epsom salts numbers are 10 5 8 "Lady Miller"with a host of micro nutrients. What was the name of the fertilizer you got from NY? I`m always looking to experiment with something new.

John

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:44 pm

I agree on the Tablespoon to a gallon(epsom salts)
I usually just sprinkle it down liberally on the soil before a nice rain,like the 2" we had last week.
The soil temps are getting into the 50s now and you can really notice the difference in the color of the palms.
Probably snow this weekend though,the fun is over starting Saturday but Thurs-Friday are in the mid to upper 60s-
gotta enjoy it while it lasts this time of year.

BTW,I hit my palms with some Potassium I bought off e-bay last fall(0-0-60),
without a doubt they LOVE potassium!-more of a reaction from that stuff then anything I ever put on them.

Okanagan desert-palms · Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:10 pm

Jim I will have to try some potasium next year. I have a feeling next winter they will really need it. I hope the white stuff is done for you after this.

John

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:47 am

I wasn't able to get your L.Miller fertilizer from the Coast, so I got this online.
Here's the fert from New York:

Sprinkling mg on the soil works too; I like to dilute mine in water so the little prills aren't all swept off to the sides of the pot as I pour water on the soil.
You guys are correct...TABLESPOON of epsom salts (not teaspoon).
No wonder I can't cook

And potassium is fabulous.
Read somewhere that Florida's "lethal yellowing" disease that is killing many of their palms is due to lack of potassium apparently.
Especially good for Fall applications, potassium helps plants resist and survive cold too.
Potassium is applied to golf course greens here in Oct/Nov. to help them overwinter...

Glad you've had some good weather Jim, you sure deserve it after that brutal couple of months.

John's probably tanned the colour of a saddle by now...right John?
BC weather has been superb...a little chilly last night again, but sun sun sun sun sun....

Barb

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:07 pm

Yea,our weather has been great too!

Don't really care one way or another at this point about snow as long as the it doesn't stay cold.

I am hitting my palms with P next time the weather is mild through the 10 day forecast so I
know they are using it.
It will be interesting to see what a few days of chilly weather will do to the soil temps which will be in the low 60s(f)
after today and tomorrow.
Tomorrow the mulch and covers go back on for a couple days.
My palms really took off last year after hitting with P!
I think it will bust them out of there spearless state pretty fast-
P is good for structure,flowering,rooting and increases cell wall thickness which is beneficial
to cold hardiness and insect resistance and is quite the boost to help them out of the doldrums after a long winter!

Here is a link to the Potassium on e-bay-it's actually 0-0-50 Great seller,ships fast!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... K:MEWNX:IT

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:19 pm

Good link, Jim, thanks.
He sure seems to know his stuff, wide variety.

The sulphur in potash is as beneficial to palms as the potassium.
Didn't (years ago) potash used to be wood ashes? "Pot ash"

So it's alkaline, like sprinkling wood ashes around my clematis, which they love (clematis hates acidic soil).

Then the combined acidic sulphur and alkaline potash are a perfect combination.
Gives the plants what they need without changing the pH more than just a hair.

Barb

Okanagan desert-palms · Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:19 pm

Thanks Barb for the info on your palm pro liquid .I should order some.Barb the tan is wearing off quick until we get those warmer 70`s days of spring. Jim I always thought potassium "potash" was for overwintering to build carbs up for the winter. I`ll try some on a couple of palms this spring.

John

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:43 pm

I am going to give it to half of the 10 palms I have with spear pull and see if it makes a big difference.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:49 pm

Hope it works as you expect Jim.

John, when you run out of Lily Miller let me know.
I'm sure I'll still have tons of this stuff.

Doubt the shipper in White Plains NY will make the same "$20.00 shipping" mistake a second time.
I asked for "price for shipping to B.C."
They must've thought D.C.

Two 2-gallon jugs across an entire continent, weighing about 50 pounds, for 20 bucks.

Barb

Bgoins12 · Post by **Bgoins12** » Sun Mar 28, 2010 3:53 am

Forgot to mention... I DID find food finally at a good price, at the dollar store of all places. It's Rose and Flower food, and the numbers are 12-4-8, and it seems to be working very well. In just 3 days, the tree looks MUCH better.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:32 am

Glad you found some fertilizer.
See if you can find a package of "chelated trace minerals"...use sparingly, but use it!

Someone else--I think it was Steve--also found fertilizer at the dollar store.
Great find!

Look forward to seeing it grow this summer.

Barb

hilashes · Post by **hilashes** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:46 pm

Hey Everyone - glad I found this thread, so I should chime in here regarding the epsom salts.....YIKES I put 4 TBSP diluted around each Trachy today!!

For some reason I thought it was that much, I hope they're going to be okay. I am using the Miracle Grow water soluble 24-8-16 with micro-nutrients, although it does not contain any Magnesium (hence the epsom salts overload!! lol) Like Jim I also use the Potassium 0-0-50 in the fall, but haven't used it yet this spring so I'll try that too (thanks Jim!) Also thanks for the great info Barb... over the winter everything seems to escape my memory and I'm left wondering by spring how to fertilize. (This IS my second year as a newbie!)

Heidi

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:10 am

Heidi from what others have done, 4 tbsp epsom salts is still LIGHT.
Barb

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:29 am

Barb,
from another (like Heidi) newbie, thanks! I haven't done the epsom salts thing yet.
I tend to worry about overdoing fertilizer.
Also, my local nursery stocks the 0-0-60 potassium Jim mentioned above. Anyone know how much of that to use, and when?
--Erik

hilashes · Post by **hilashes** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:11 pm

Whew, thanks Barb. Erik I just sprinkle about a handful size of the 0-0-50 potassium, as I'm really not sure of how much myself!

Heidi

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:08 am

hilashes wrote:Whew, thanks Barb. Erik I just sprinkle about a handful size of the 0-0-50 potassium, as I'm really not sure of how much myself!

Heidi

Sounds about right/or a tablespoon per gallon.

hilashes · Post by **hilashes** » Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:49 pm

Thanks Jim

sidpook · Post by **sidpook** » Sun May 30, 2010 5:03 pm

I use this stuff, organic and local in SOuth Jersey. The only drawback is that our dogs love and eat the soil esp when it is in pots in the winter time.... in the house. They make it for all types of flowers and plants and it is slow release, organic and the least wasteful of any product i have ever used i think.

http://www.acehardwaresuperstore.com/es ... tml?ref=42

http://www.espoma.com/index.cfm

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Mon May 31, 2010 1:38 pm

Mike,
Your dogs ate it? Must have bone or blood meal in it.
Drives 'em nuts, my dog too.

Barb

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Mon May 31, 2010 2:18 pm

If it's not the dogs it's the chickens. One or the other is always digging up the surface roots of my palms!
Or I water the palms and they want to lay in the cool soil. --Erik

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Mon May 31, 2010 2:35 pm

Last year my neighbor had some chickens(the "man" made her get rid of them),
they picked at everything!
I mean everything,they used to eat fertilizer pellets off the ground,I was like,hmmm
how good would that taste and,do you have a tummy ache you stupid little birdies?

It was kind of amusing

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Mon May 31, 2010 2:41 pm

You want amusing?
I planted a Brugmansia last year. Those chickens who tried eating it got higher than any chicken ever flew.

They are leaving it alone this year. --Erik

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Mon May 31, 2010 2:58 pm

They survived eating Brugs?
isn't that devil's trumpet?

Glad they survived.

BILL MA · Post by **BILL MA** » Mon May 31, 2010 4:32 pm

This is some good stuff from dogs eating dirt, chickens eating fertilizer pellets. That made me laugh out loud by the way Jim! my girl friend asked me what I was laughing at. And my god I can't believe Erik's chickens eating the brugs, that is just to much. I knew they where poisonous, but some guy told me yesterday that kids where boiling them to get high in Florida and dropping dead. Great! I can't believe the chicken made it, that must have been a odd sight.

Bill

sidpook · Post by **sidpook** » Mon May 31, 2010 6:07 pm

lucky1 wrote:Mike,
Your dogs ate it? Must have bone or blood meal in it.
Drives 'em nuts, my dog too.

Barb

Yep, barb, they love the flavor...they are quite the connoisseurs of fertilizer. LOl. It smells like chickens actually, and everytime i spread it on a windy day, it goes right up my nose and the dogs love to come over and sniff and lick me...Crazy.
PS Barb, my yucca is up to my chin now, ready to bloom this week...I'll post pics for ya. Hot here right now, 90 today and for the next few days....feels tropical....
Mike

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Mon May 31, 2010 6:16 pm

It smells like chickens actually, and everytime i spread it on a windy day, it goes right up my nose and the dogs love to come over and sniff and lick me

yucca up to your chin!

Mine are still NOT sending ANY flower shoots (and they always bloom every year).
I cannot wait to see that picture, Mike!

90 degrees?
We're lucky to hit 65 these days. WTHell? Where's Al Gore? I'm gonna smack 'im.
But when the heat hits...the blast furnace will reawaken to suck all the air out of our lungs.
Nothing's growing until then obviously.

Barb

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Mon May 31, 2010 8:02 pm

65oF? We won't have a morning low like that for a long, long time.
Brrr!

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:15 am

Yea,it's amazing how fast summer can come on,we were cruising along 10 degrees colder than avg for half of May
after being +7(f) above mean for April and then on May 22 we hit 86,after averaging 64 to 48 the first half of the month.

We averaged 88 to 64 from May 22 on.
74 to 54 for the month,the last 10 to 15 days pulled the avg up 10(F)

Anyway enough about these damn chickens-

I like to mix it up a little,different ferts for different times/temps/chickens

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:54 pm

I mix up fertilizers, too, hoping that if one is deficient the next might not be for what they need.
As for temps, Jim, I think you and I are in a contest for who on this forum gets to 100oF first. --Erik

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:59 pm

My cactus bed has been over 100 for almost a week.

I win!

I don't think you will have a prob getting there first,
Dallas was 99 the other day.

BILL MA · Post by **BILL MA** » Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:39 pm

I take my nice high 70's low 80's and high fifties at night all day. Trust me stuff still grows just as good. I have enough watering to do

Bill