Sabal Palmetto

tropicman · Post by **tropicman** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:00 pm

At Derees Nursery here in Wichita Ks,I ran into a couple from Dallas Texas,who told me they were growing
Australia Ferns and palmettos in there greenhouse swamp,growing directly in the water,and both plants are over 12 ft tall,and I said I have never heard of this before,I would expect root rot,from both plants,but they told me palmettos grow in the swamps area of south east Texas,now I have fish a few lakes and river streams there in the 60's and don't recall ever seeing any,can anybody confirm this ?
They also told me they had them growing in there yard there outside Dallas,which is now declared zone 8,so it might just be possible,anybody here have any info on these plants and they're hardiness?
Don

Alchris · Post by **Alchris** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:23 pm

The traditional area for Sabal palmetto and Sabal minor is the swampy area in the south of Texas through Louisiana, Mississippi, Northern Florida etc. Usually they grow on land beside the swamp and prefer to have their roots 'wet'. I don't know about them growing in standing water. I would worry about trunk rot and falling over with the palmetto.

I don't know anything about Australia ferns.

Allen

tropicman · Post by **tropicman** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:31 pm

Thanks Allen,
I think I've heard before about them growing in swamps,but can't imagine them growing along the cypress swamp tree,but I guess anything is possible.

turtile · Post by **turtile** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:14 am

Palmetto should do fine in swampy areas. They are native to areas that flood and as already pointed out, Sabal Minor grows in swamps in many parts of its range.

Palmettos are easily hardy to Zone 8 with a good amount of heat.

The Texas Palmetto (Sabal Texana) is native along water ways in Southeast Texas as they said.

A person in NJ planted a Sabal Minor in an area that flooded over a few inches and then froze and it survived.

Dean W. · Post by **Dean W.** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:31 am

I've found wild Sabal minors growing next to creek and river beds which are prone to flooding.

In Central Texas,
Dean

tropicman · Post by **tropicman** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:30 pm

Thanks Dean.
I have no trouble in believing that,as much water I give them during thew summer,but the palmettos,I find it hard to imagine,but then again Steve has proven that parlor palms can grow in water .

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:20 pm

Hi Don,

Saw pics SOMEWHERE on the internet...

If you've got some time...Google IMAGES Sabal Palmetto.
Click on every one of the 5,000

thumbnails that are produced.

Give each click about 5 seconds and the content of the page comes up for a more thorough look and read.
Great way to spend a rainy Sunday...or an entire winter.

Somewhere in there (5,000 images), I saw many many 10 foot or so palmettos growing all around what looked like a swamp or swimming hole. They were so close to the water, their roots had to be in it! They looked great.

Barb

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:12 pm

Don, can't find the previous "waterlogged" story...but here are a couple of links that might interest you:

Native Florida Plants for Freshwater Wetland Landscapes
Palms
Common Name Scientific Name Height Light Requirements
Cabbage/Sabal Palm Sabal palmetto 50’-60’ full sun to part shade
Paurotis Palm Acoelorrhaphe wrightii 15’-20’ full sun to part shade
Royal Palm Roystonea regia up to 75’ full sun to part shade
http://www.sccf.org/Plants%20for%20Wetlands.pdf

Culture: Sabal palms accept sun or shade and will tolerate drought as well as severe flooding. The trees grow at a moderate pace and are generally cold hardy and adaptable.
http://www.horticulturalconsultants.com/palm/sabal.html

Hope this'll
wet your appetite!

Barb

tropicman · Post by **tropicman** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:51 am

Hi Barb,
Thanks for the info,I have to go to work today,but will goggle Sabal Palmetto,the first chance I get,because I would really like to try one in a container,there has been much talk about these palms.from other forums,and from people I keep running into,and thats one of the first questions they ask,if I'm growing one.I also,just might try one in the ground,in a micro climate area,just to see how hardy it really is!!!
Once again thanks a lot!

Don

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:58 pm

Don, you'll drool over these pics:

You want a palm in water?

http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=h ... %26hl%3Den

http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=h ... %26hl%3Den

Barb

Wes North Van · Post by **Wes North Van** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:09 pm

These palms struggle to survive here because of the lack of summer heat. They do not mind the wet winters but they just don't recover well without summer heat. I have sabal palmetto and sabal mexicana that are still too small for planting in the ground but I plan on doing so as soon as possible.

Sabal Minor is a different story. These survive well here but grow slowly, again without the summer heat. This is a palm I believe would do well in the Vernon, Kelowna areas.

tropicman · Post by **tropicman** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:30 pm

Thanks Barb,your right thats what I'd like to have in my pond for sure!!!!

I got a few saw palmettos that I'm just received,and have potted up,I will try one outside if I can ever get one big enough.
I have the summer heat,and can protect them from the winter cold,so might get one to come hardy enough,if the pinto palm makes it thru winter,I think I can get a saw to make it also!

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:30 pm

Hi Wes and Don,

Nypa Fruticans is commonly known as mangrove palm, how difficult is it for an American to buy these
from a southern nursery?
Wes, have you seen them for sale in Vancouver?

I'd love to have that sitting in my pond, too.
Naturally it'd overwinter indoors in a water-filled saucer

The first of the two links is a super photo...too bad we can't read the text

Barb

tropicman · Post by **tropicman** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:39 pm

You'd think they would sell these as houseplants,because you couldn't overwater them!!!!

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:47 pm

Yup, good point, Don.

Here's Steve's Nypa fruticans thread (pond in his GH)
viewtopic.php?p=10357#10357

I just posted an excerpt there from my palm encyclopedia.
Barb

Wes North Van · Post by **Wes North Van** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:16 am

No I haven't.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:52 am

Did you start your Nypa from seed, Wes?

I believe there's sufficient demand for a specialist palm nursery in BC.
..for people who know what they want (like we do

)
Specimens don't need to be large.
Most of us would be happy with one gallon sizes, and are prepared to pay for it.

But then again, maybe the lack of reliable and properly ID'd
and labelled live plants is what makes people buy seeds.

Barb

Wes North Van · Post by **Wes North Van** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:41 am

I agree we need a good sized speciality palm nursery but when I talk to nurseries the problem is the cost of getting palms across the border and transporting them to Vancouver. The nurseries here tend to get most of their plants from California and the selection of hardy palms is not that great. The better palms are in the east. We have small nurseries like Barrie's and Tropic to Tropics that we have to rely on or we must grow them from seed or pay the high price to order them from back east.

I do all three. I get my waggies and chamaedorea radicalis from our BC small nurseries, I grow sabals, and Trachycarpus from seeds and I order needles and larger sabal minors from Broadway in Ontario.

One day I hope to have enough sabal minors to start to spread them around Western Canada.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:23 am

Wes,
Deliveries would have to be curtailed in winter, naturally, but I don't see how it would be more expensive
to get palms from California to BC than it is to get Florida palms to Ontario.

We palm nuts want to own NON-HARDY varieties, too, for indoor protection in winter.
Properly ID'd and labelled unusual palms (Nypa, Licuala, etc etc) wouldn't be on the shelf for long!

When you think of the volume of US nursery plants that land in BC around May 15th annually,
I just wonder why there isn't more selection.

I do agree with supporting Canadian growers, but if they don't routinely what we want...who is there to fill the VARIETY gap?

We Canadians are used to paying big bucks for just about everything.
Somebody somewhere is missing out on an opportunity.

Barb

Alchris · Post by **Alchris** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:13 pm

How did things work out with the Kelowna Flower Farm when they ordered in palms last spring?

I tried dealing with him but he couldn't get in the palms that I wanted and wasn't interested in holding anything until I got out there to pick it up.

Allen

Barrie · Post by **Barrie** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:13 am

"We Canadians are used to paying big bucks for just about everything.
Somebody somewhere is missing out on an opportunity."

Barb, if you're refering to an importer or nursery bringing on a large selection of hardy palms for the Canadian consumer, that opportunity is rather small. There really isn't enough interest even with the recent enthusiasm for palms over the last 10 years to make it a very lucrative venture. Sure some of the big box stores have and do bring in the basic palm types, many are still reluctant to make that next step. There pricing and return policies (high prices and usually a one year guarantee) in my opinion are keeping them going outside the sure bet.

Cheers, Barrie.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:19 am

Barrie,
The one year guarantee (which I've never seen myself), would be a big obstacle.
I'm not surprised big box don't want that type of business.
They're not the right retailer for specialty plants.

It's a niche for a specialty nursery whose customers will pay a premium for
specimens that aren't run-of-the-mill varieties...tender and cold hardy.
But they'd be insane to offer any guarantee.
Many of us are interested in 1 gallon specimens (versus the huge bucks for 10 and 15 gallon plants.)
I still think it'd fly, especially if they had the savvy to stock Nypa, Licuala among others never seen here.

Allen, I never made it to the Flower Farm. You'll have to ask Jay or John.
The pic I saw of their palms showed, I believe, three varieties;
none of which I was interested in buying.
Barb