PALMS IN BUDAPEST - HUNGARY

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ROBRETI
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PALMS IN BUDAPEST - HUNGARY

Post by ROBRETI » Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:25 am

Hi all,

I thought I'd share with you some of the pics I made in Budapest, Hungary. Its latitude is 47 degrees North, and is under the influence of the continental (40%), maritime (40%) and Mediterranean (20%) climates. The average minimum temperature is - 16 C degrees, about zone 7a. This is the classical division line between teh warm adn cold temperate climates, per the Koppen climate system.

Due to the historically long and close connection with Austria and Germany, the horticultural literature was full with their results. As such, evergreens meant pines, spruces and Thujas. Due to our climate being significantly drier, not all varieties thrived and most recently - in the past 20 years - a major change has happenned, whereby Mediterranean species and varieties are being extensively tried. Mainly in the private gardens, one can now see Albizias, pomegranates, a few Trachycarpus, a couple of Lagerstroemias (Crepe myrtle), figs (self pollinating Adriatic variety), Yucca recurvifolias, etc..)

Due to the heat dome over large cities, the downtowns have become even warmer and drier, eventually resulting in a zone shift towards 7b/8a.

Realizing this change, public gardens started to try out exotics. I made the following pics at the Budapest Zoo. Hope you'll like them and sorry for the bad quality. Forget the fat guy in the middle; I just stood there for proper size reference :-) You'll see Trachys, figs, Cylindropuntias (I think C. imbricata), Yuccas (I guess Y. recurvifolia) and Poncirus trifoliata (hardy citrus). (First time uploading pics; I hope they'll come through..)


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BILL MA
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Post by BILL MA » Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:28 pm

Robert,
Those are some great pictures! Thanks for sharing them, what a huge patch of figs. It looks like there's a huge silk tree in the background of picture 1 if I and see it properly? Also in picture 3 what is the pinnate leafed palm in the background? A Jubaea?

Bill

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Post by Cameron_z6a_N.S. » Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:22 pm

Nice pics! Does the pinnate-leaved palm (jubaea?) go unprotected?
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hardyjim
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Post by hardyjim » Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:22 pm

Great pics
Everything looks nice and healthy.
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Barrie

Post by Barrie » Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:25 am

Nice! Where you there on a recent trip?

Cheers, Barrie.

ROBRETI
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Post by ROBRETI » Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:20 am

Hi all,

Thanks for having vewed the pics. They were taken 2 years ago, in July. Unfortunately I can not identify the palm in the background, but I know that currently Jubea is not part of the experiments. As for palms, it is mainly Trachycarpus fortunei and wagneriana, which forms bulk of the plantings. No palm with pinnate leaf has been tested at all. The Sabals and Rapidophyllums are not available in Hungary, yet.

An interesting thing: you know, the Mediterranean plants receive most of their rain in the winter half year. Under continental climate conditions in Central Europe, we have little rain in the summer and freezing temperatures in the winter. This is a killer combination. Some experts suggested to change the life cycle of these MEditerranean plants by giving them ample water throughout the growing season and fertilize them substantially until end of July. This would allow these plants to fully make their growth potential in the sumer half year and they can harden up (build enoug carbo-hydrates) for the winter in the second part of the summer. So far, this seems to have worked. One indicator plant could be the pomegranate: its new shoots exactly show the hardiness status (the youngest parts are almost translucent); turning into woody texture only around in late September-early October.

I think I will make sure to water my plants quite well even in Oakville, where the precipitation is at least 30% more (and evenly distributed throughout the year) than in Hungary, giving them a boost.

Do you have any experience on when to stop fertilizing/watering in East US/Canada?
Thanks, Rob

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lucky1
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Post by lucky1 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:45 pm

Gorgeous pics, thank you.

Pomegranate? Sheesh, I'll get H into this tropical growing stuff yet!
He inhales pomegranates....
ample water throughout the growing season and fertilize them substantially until end of July. This would allow these plants to fully make their growth potential in the sumer half year and they can harden up (build enoug carbo-hydrates) for the winter in the second part of the summer.
With the exception of additional water in August, that's my timing for watering and fertilizer, even for plants that are in pots and go back inside for winter.

Barb
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ROBRETI
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Post by ROBRETI » Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:26 pm

Thanks, Barb, so August it is.

(I used to buy pomegranates of Kazakh origin, from the ex Soviet Union. They were much smaller than the good Arab stuff from Lebanon, but imagine th feeling.... So, most of Kazakhstan is viciously cold and only a small part in teh south is relatively mild. Summers are scorching hot, though.....)

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Post by ROBRETI » Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:34 pm

Hi Bill,

Yes, it is an Albizia in teh background. (the horticultural story is that one plant has been left in the garden by a forest inspector. He even forgot about it until a couple of years later, when the new tree started to bloom; it is very subtropical and fragrant even.)

Albizia has proven to be pretty hardy, but it seems that it needs warm summers, otherwise the new growth will not be vigorous enough to reach the blooming phase (flowers develop at the end of the current year's growth.)

Another species of interest might be a true Cupressus (C. sempervirens); the one that you see in Italy. The classical shape is due to its human interrelation; the original groves in Turkey look more like shabby spruces. This Anatolian colony is OK until - 30 C!!!!! Again, warm summers are needed to make it grow out its current year's potential... I think the Okanagan Valley would be just a wonderful backdrop for this plant (right, Barb?)

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lucky1
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Post by lucky1 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:24 pm

These are beautiful indeed.

http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=h ... s%3Disch:1

All we need are some Roman gladiators for the authentic look...

Barb
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BILL MA
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Post by BILL MA » Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:45 pm

Thanks Rob.
Silk tree's do well here in Mass. I almost forgot about them. My friends house in zone 7 Cape Cod has a neighbor with one that is spectacular!
There all over the place down there. There are some around here too, people should plant them more since they are hardy and bloom well.

Thanks again,
Bill

ROBRETI
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Post by ROBRETI » Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:05 pm

Thanks Bill. You guys may have some beautiful Magnolia grandifloras, too, in South Mass., am I correct?
Rob

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BILL MA
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Post by BILL MA » Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:08 am

There scatered around here and there. Some of them are really giant like the ones down South.
I have three that are coming along pretty well for there fist winter.

Bill

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Henoh_Croatia
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Post by Henoh_Croatia » Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:53 am

Here is links with great pictures from Budapest BG 'ELTE'. They have T. fortunei, Sabal minor (protected and unprotected), Phoenix canariensis, Cupressus sempervirens, Punica granatum, Albizia julibrissin, Pinus pinea, Arbutus unedo, Laurus nobilis, Ficus carica, Musa basjoo, Yucca elata, Yucca glauca etc.
http://exoten.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/archiv ... 6660E17F7C

Winter protection for Phoenix canariensis and big Sabal minor
http://exoten.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/archiv ... 55F3C0686F

T. fortunei
http://exoten.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/archiv ... 36DAE8EF0D
http://exoten.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/archiv ... 474BB40129
Unprotected S. minor
http://exoten.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/archiv ... 61BFCB2A55

Yucca elata
http://exoten.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/archiv ... 3D518C80A1
http://exoten.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/archiv ... AD4795E3DC
http://exoten.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/archiv ... 69EC5DC270

Arbutus unedo
http://exoten.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/archiv ... CC743D6B15
fruit
http://exoten.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/archiv ... 6922432DA2

http://exoten.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/archiv ... 29DA02D53C
http://exoten.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/archiv ... A2B4453B46
http://exoten.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/archiv ... E30AE9BF88
http://exoten.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/archiv ... 593563247E
Loquat, Fig, Yuccas, Agave, T. fortunei, Wollemia nobilis etc.
http://exoten.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/archiv ... 4DA6245EFD
T. fortunei, M. Basjoo, Loquat, Yuccas, winter protection for P. canariensis
http://exoten.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/archiv ... A008C92E89
After winter - Y. elata, Yucca hybrid, Y. flaccida/filamentosa, Y. glaucca, Ficus carica, Phoenix canariensis, Phoenix reclinata, Sabal minor, Musa basjoo, Loquat, Italian or Mediterranean Cypress...
http://exoten.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/archiv ... 11AB1D2EB8
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lucky1
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Post by lucky1 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:38 am

Henoh, such incredibly large specimens, with only basic plastic winter protection.
Incredible success story.

The CIDP looked rough after the winter.
Its location against the buildings would be a nice microclimate too with reflected heat off windows.

The Sabal in with the CIDP will probably win for space long-term :lol: :lol:

Thanks for the great photos!
Barb
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Henoh_Croatia
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Post by Henoh_Croatia » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:37 pm

Hi Barb, I believe they probably heat CIDP during prolonged cold waves.
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lucky1
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Post by lucky1 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:44 pm

they probably heat CIDP during prolonged cold waves.
Approximately what's their low during winter?

Wonder what they'll do this winter now that the Trachies and CIDP have reached the top. :shock:
I'm worried about my Trachy for the same reason.

Barb
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jmdupuyoo
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Post by jmdupuyoo » Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:06 pm

Yes thank you for the pictures. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems pictures has been taken some years ago. Winters 2011/2012 and 2012/2013 has been long and cold in Europa. Do you have news of this palms? You can register very low temperature with no stop freeze for days or weeks.

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Henoh_Croatia
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Post by Henoh_Croatia » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:33 am

lucky1 wrote: Approximately what's their low during winter?
Barb
Somewhere between -10 and -18. It is zone 7b

February, coldest month in 2012
http://www.tutiempo.net/en/Climate/BUDA ... 128430.htm
Days of extreme historical values in 2012
The highest temperature recorded was 37.7°C on July 6.
The lowest temperature recorded was -17°C on February 6.

Days of extreme historical values in 2011
The highest temperature recorded was 38°C on August 25.
The lowest temperature recorded was -8.3°C on January 25.

Days of extreme historical values in 2010
The highest temperature recorded was 35.2°C on July 15.
The lowest temperature recorded was -14.6°C on December 19.

Days of extreme historical values in 2009
The highest temperature recorded was 35°C on August 2.
The lowest temperature recorded was -17.3°C on December 21.

Days of extreme historical values in 2008
The highest temperature recorded was 36.1°C on August 15.
The lowest temperature recorded was -10.7°C on February 17.

Days of extreme historical values in 2007
The highest temperature recorded was 40.7°C on July 20.
The lowest temperature recorded was -8.5°C on December 19.

Days of extreme historical values in 2006
The highest temperature recorded was 35.9°C on July 28.
The lowest temperature recorded was -15°C on January 25.
jmdupuyoo wrote:Yes thank you for the pictures. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems pictures has been taken some years ago. Winters 2011/2012 and 2012/2013 has been long and cold in Europa. Do you have news of this palms? You can register very low temperature with no stop freeze for days or weeks.
Unfortunately I don't have any new information. This link is from April 23, 2012 (see responses in lower part). So, I believe that palms still a live.
http://exoten.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/archiv ... 11AB1D2EB8

Winter 2012/2013 is very wet but not cold as winter 2012.
November
December 2012 -8.6
http://www.tutiempo.net/en/Climate/BUDA ... 128430.htm
January 2013 -8.4
http://www.tutiempo.net/en/Climate/BUDA ... 128430.htm
February 2013 -4.9
http://www.tutiempo.net/en/Climate/BUDA ... 128430.htm
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lucky1
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Post by lucky1 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:25 am

Thanks Henoh for that thorough reply of their minimum temps.
I had guessed as much unfortunately.
And their duration of cold (far shorter than mine I would guess) is likely the most important factor to getting the Trachies and CIDP and Sabal to such size.

Zone 7 a and b are among the best zones worldwide for plant lovers.

Barb
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