Frost advisory?!?

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hardyjim
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Post by hardyjim » Sun Nov 07, 2010 8:21 am

Erik

You can get a head start with your Basjoos next year by leaving them in the ground.

Every year they will grow their root mat wider/deeper giving the pups/saved stalks a big
jump the following spring.

My experience has been that when I brought larger plants inside and then planted them in
spring,they put all there energy into regrowing roots and pups!

This p'ed me off as I was lugging these big plants inside for nothing!

My Basjoos grew bigger than ever from the roots this year and I am guessing next year..
warm summer or not,they will be as big or bigger!


Good luck with yours,I will be interested in seeing you guys results :lol:


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Post by TerdalFarm » Sun Nov 07, 2010 8:32 am

Thanks for the tips, Barb & Jim.
This marital "conflict" happens this time every year. W is from Michigan; I'm from Oregon. Same latitude (45 oN) but VERY different winters! I'll leave 'em (M. basjoo) all in the ground. I did dig up and haul in "her" Musa (unknown sp., but not basjoo). Compromise.
Anyway, I'm about to stop on this thread and leave it to folks like Mike and coltrane who have not had a real frost yet. I had a freeze, not a frost, and it shows. All Canna, Celosia, Colocassia, Ipomea, Musa, Musella, Passiflora, Ruellia, etc. are done for the year. Only bright side is that the cold-hardy palms that were hidden by those are now more prominent in the landscape! :)
Not sure if Phoenix roebellini is worth digging up--it was very hard hit. I might start a new thread in a few days for input after I watch it for a few days; we are having great weather all week so I'll see if that helps it any.
I'll start a new thread today on the big Sabal palmetto and I'll want input from you two + gpenny and anyone else with cabbage palm experience. In brief, it is having problems, but those are unrelated to the "frost".
--Erik

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hardyjim
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Post by hardyjim » Sun Nov 07, 2010 8:54 am

Once it get's to Oct I look forward to the Bananas,Cannas, etc
going -so I can get back to the business of putting my attention
on my first love-cold hardy palms/cactus.
:D
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Post by lucky1 » Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:22 am

You expected P. roebellenii to be fine?
It's pretty tender.

http://www.growingontheedge.net/viewtop ... 0f2a20e359

Then there are people like me who lose a 5-year old roebellenii even when it's never seen a frost :?
*poop*


Jim...you're thinning the herd.
Barb
:D
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Post by TerdalFarm » Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:43 am

Remember, despite my post #, I am a novice!
I post so much because of my inexperience.
So, please everyone (that includes you, Bill) give me advice later today on my Sabal palmetto. I'm still drafting that post.
I don't want it to go the way of the PDP or the large Butia....
--Erik
P.S. the avatar Butia looks great today, 15 months after the avatar photo was taken.

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hardyjim
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Post by hardyjim » Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:58 am

lucky1 wrote:You expected P. roebellenii to be fine?
It's pretty tender.

Jim...you're thinning the herd.
Barb
:D


Barb-
the weather here does that for me,only the strong survive 8)



Erik

assuming you have enough to do without building some massive contraption
around your big Sabal......

I think just keeping the dry Arctic winds off it will be best,where did this palm
come from?
If it is from(grown in/near) your area you probably don't need to worry about the spear,
if it is from Florida(or the like)you may want to consider some kind of
heat focus on the spear below about 10(F)until late Jan-just depends on the winter we get.

I have a feeling besides a few(far between)cold snaps,you will be quite mild.
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sidpook
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Post by sidpook » Sun Nov 07, 2010 1:00 pm

lucky1 wrote:Erik bananas love heat and are very thirsty so just apply lots of water and fertilizer.

Mike perfect conditions to overwinter your plants. Lots of light and coolish temps, no need for much heat.
What a gorgeous front porch with the hibiscus pair; very welcoming! :D
Barb
Thanks Barb!
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Post by igor.glukhovtsev » Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:30 am

Jim, look at your weather sticker! It's showing 0F :evil: What a Hell is that! I checked with a couple of forecast sites - you are OK!
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hardyjim
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Post by hardyjim » Thu Nov 11, 2010 7:26 am

Yea,I saw that too! :D

It was actually 73f here(23c)and it said 0(F)
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Post by TerdalFarm » Thu Nov 11, 2010 7:27 am

Igor, mine does that on occasion. I think it is a software "reset" mode by the person uploading weather data.
I'm pretty sure Jim is getting rain today! :)
--Erik

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BILL MA
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Post by BILL MA » Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:35 am

Jim,

Good thing it wasn't 0f or you itinerans would be in jeopardy :shock:

ZERO!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Inside joke.

Bill

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hardyjim
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Post by hardyjim » Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:49 am

That was a good one!

That was the first thing I heard when I saw that temp......... ZERO!

They sailed through it.....mostly because it didn't happen :wink:



BTW

To bad those aren't Itinerans,maybe that guy thought I was asking
what the chances where that they are Itinerans?????

%

ZERO!
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Post by canadianplant » Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:02 am

I ordered some Itinerans (burmese blue). Some info says they can py pups out 10feet away from the mother plant:S
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lucky1
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Oh oh

Post by lucky1 » Thu Nov 18, 2010 7:24 am

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Post by canadianplant » Thu Nov 18, 2010 7:35 am

dear god barb....... ill be praying for you and your plants :shock:

Calgary is going to be -21 tonight :S We were -9C last night ( coldest temp by far this year), and my passiflora is STILL alive....... I wouldve thought the cold last night would make it look like a black soupy mess on the wall.....

their calling for the highs to be below 0 for the net week, with some nights going as low as -12, with one night being called as low as -15C..... Needless to say, the bamboos, and other things out there are going to be getting protected.......... i really hope temps dont get too hot after i protect them :evil:
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Post by TerdalFarm » Thu Nov 18, 2010 7:55 am

Oh, Barb! And Duncan!

I'm actively following this system. As of this morning, it looks like it will miss me, but the OK meterologists admit they are not sure.

As an example of what I am trying to figure out, here is the email the state climatologist sent out this morning to all us weather geeks on his mailing list. Most of it is over my head (omega blocks, NAO, AO, etc.; at least he tosses in a little humor:
Oh wait, the punchline! A La Nina, an Omega Block and the Arctic Oscillation
walk into a bar and the bartender says "what is this, some kind of joke?" )
--Erik

MESONET TICKER ... MESONET TICKER ... MESONET TICKER ... MESONET TICKER ...
November 18, 2010 November 18, 2010 November 18, 2010 November 18, 2010


The OCS/Mesonet Ticker: The best of climes; the worst of climes.


A La Nina, an Omega Block and an Arctic Oscillation walk into a bar ...

It has been sorta cold recently, although temperatures as a whole are still above
average for the month. But it appears as though we might be in for some actual
COLD air next week sometime. The buzzword is "omega block" and it's being thrown
about quite a bit lately.

An omega block is a somewhat-persistent upper-air pattern that sets up and
redirects the storm track around it. It got it's name from it's resemblance to
the Greek letter:

http://ticker.mesonet.org/archive/20101 ... _block.jpg

The block we are concerned with is setting up in a low pressure-high pressure-
low pressure pattern over Greenland. This type of blocking ridge over that
region can act as a funnel for arctic air, allowing the frigid air to slip into
the eastern half of the United States causing temperatures to fall well-below
normal. The NWS' Climate Prediction Center (CPC) has picked up on this and
given us a clue of what to expect (sorry for the shouting):

"ALL NUMERICAL SOLUTIONS ARE FORECASTING VERY PRONOUNCED NEGATIVE PHASES OF
THE ARCTIC OSCILLATION (AO) AND NORTH ATLANTIC OSCILLATION (NAO), WHICH
TYPICALLY MEANS BELOW-NORMAL TEMPERATURES OVER A LARGE PORTION OF THE
EASTERN (UNITED STATES)."

As a reminder, the NAO and the AO were key players (along with El Nino) in last
year's disgustingly cold and wet winter for the eastern half of the country (for
simplicity's sake, I'm going to stick with the AO and ignore the complex
relationship it has with the NAO, the real climate player in this scenario).
The values for the AO Index, which measures the relative strength of the AO,
during December were the most negative for that month since record keeping
began in 1950, and dropped to that level again during February. Here's a look
at last winter's AO index

http://ticker.mesonet.org/archive/20100315/ao.sprd2.gif

and a simplified depiction of negative-phase AO effects:

http://ticker.mesonet.org/archive/20100 ... ive_AO.png

The latest ensemble forecast for the AO index shows it headed into negative
territory for the next week or so:

http://ticker.mesonet.org/archive/20101 ... recast.gif

The forecasts get pretty noisy after a week or so, because that's what forecasts
tend to do. But it's easy to see the downward trend in the index. The real
question now, however, is how much of that cold air will get shifted into the
Southern Plains and how much will be shunted off to the east. The CPC's 6-10
day outlook, valid for November 23-27, show the above-normal chances of below-
normal temperatures over much of the northwestern two-thirds of the country
associated with a probable outbreak of arctic air:

http://ticker.mesonet.org/archive/20101 ... mp.new.gif

The 8-14 day outlook (November 25-December 1) shows that arctic air moving off
to our east with chances for normal temperatures in our area being equal
to above- or below-normal chances:

http://ticker.mesonet.org/archive/20101 ... mp.new.gif

Precipitation chances for the two periods are somewhat mixed, but apparently
it's duck season (WABBIT SEASON ... duck season ... WABBIT SEASON, etc.,
spoiler alert: daffy loses) from November 25-December 1:

http://ticker.mesonet.org/archive/20101 ... cp.new.gif
http://ticker.mesonet.org/archive/20101 ... cp.new.gif

So there you have it - an attempt to forecast the weather for the next two
weeks using only climate tools. Doomed to failure and ridicule, you say?
Probably. The players are different this year with the influence of La Nina in
place of El Nino.But if that failure means warmth, I'm okay with that.

Oh wait, the punchline! A La Nina, an Omega Block and the Arctic Oscillation
walk into a bar and the bartender says "what is this, some kind of joke?"

Gary McManus
Associate State Climatologist
Oklahoma Climatological Survey
(405) 325-2253
gmcmanus@mesonet.org

November 18 in Oklahoma History:
Record Maximum 88 F at POTEAU (1930)
Record Minimum 2 F at KENTON (1958), PAWHUSKA (1903)
Record Precip 4.72" at SMITHVILLE (1969)
+Record Snowfall 12.00" at HOOKER (1948)
(Oklahoma History = since roughly 1895)
+ - May include hail or other forms of frozen precipitation

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Post by canadianplant » Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:21 am

Calgary is getting COOOLD. We over here arent getting it as bad ( thank god for the lakes). Id be more worried about anyone south and west of me though....

Im following this system as wel, becasu were slated to get 30cm on snow over a 3 day period :evil: , with some cold weather...

Eric the weather network up here is saying you guys will be COLD from montana to north navada n texas, to the carolinas ( the mountains do a damn good job of funneling in the cold air dont they )
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hardyjim
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Post by hardyjim » Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:24 am

Man,I thought I went on a long time with out saying anything :evil:
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Post by TerdalFarm » Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:26 am

Jim,
do you mean me, or Gary, the OK state climatologist? (or both?) :wink:
--Erik

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hardyjim
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Post by hardyjim » Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:53 am

All the weather forecasters,the models they use are all over the place,
unaccuweather predicted a big Arctic outbreak for this week..........

didn't see one,or any explanation why it didn't happen :?
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Post by Cowtown Palm Society » Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:57 pm

Hi All,

Is anybody warmer than 4f? And no my weather sticker isn't broken like Jim's :?.

It had to come folks. That's Calgary for you. On the up side, my protective yucca (rostrata and bacatta) huts seem to really be doing the job. Last night we probably hit somewhere in the 6-10f range. Both of my huts hovered around between 30-34f. I used plumber's heat tape in both huts. I just turn them on for like an hour before bed, and it seems to hold the heat incredibly well. Some of this is due to residual heat still in the ground, I think-but overall I think it will definitely meet the warmth requirements. Now I'm starting to worry about the fact the neither of these huts allows for any light whatsoever. I was hoping to induce the kind of dormancy folks here seem to pull off with their palms. I know I can keep the harmful temps. off these plants, but what do guys think about no light for 3-4 months, before I can go to a lighter kind of protection?

Erik, hope it misses you guys!

Thanks!

P.S. Canadian, they're saying -23, for tonight, now :roll: . :shock: :o 8) :lol:
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Post by TerdalFarm » Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:23 pm

Duncan,
oh, wow!
we don't see temps like that except in December and January.
I don't have much useful advice on Yucca as our only one lives in a pot and W brings it in when it gets to freezing. Absurd, but the Yucca isn't exactly complaining. :lol:
I'm glad you are using the plumber's heat tape. I swear by it, but always wonder why other's don't use it--like maybe they know something I don't. :?
As for my forecast, it is still confused. The "split the difference" forecast has low 20s oF by this time next week. Except those will be lows, not highs! :D
--Erik

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Post by Cowtown Palm Society » Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:31 pm

Erik, brutal temps. indeed. Two weeks ago in the low 70s is but a distant memory.

Man we've had lots of snow too...at least I've got a path shoveled to the hot tub for tonight, which will be a toasty 104 :D .

Yeah, agreed, I'm very impressed with the heat tape so far. Not sure about people's reluctance? Perhaps the small chance of creating a devastating fire
:shock: :D ! Just kidding :lol: .

Take Care,

Duncan
Last edited by Cowtown Palm Society on Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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sidpook
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Post by sidpook » Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:33 pm

Cowtown Palm Society wrote:Hi All,

Is anybody warmer than 4f? And no my weather sticker isn't broken like Jim's :?.

It had to come folks. That's Calgary for you. On the up side, my protective yucca (rostrata and bacatta) huts seem to really be doing the job. Last night we probably hit somewhere in the 6-10f range. Both of my huts hovered around between 30-34f. I used plumber's heat tape in both huts. I just turn them on for like an hour before bed, and it seems to hold the heat incredibly well. Some of this is due to residual heat still in the ground, I think-but overall I think it will definitely meet the warmth requirements. Now I'm starting to worry about the fact the neither of these huts allows for any light whatsoever. I was hoping to induce the kind of dormancy folks here seem to pull off with their palms. I know I can keep the harmful temps. off these plants, but what do guys think about no light for 3-4 months, before I can go to a lighter kind of protection?

Erik, hope it misses you guys!

Thanks!


P.S. Canadian, they're saying -23, for tonight, now :roll: . :shock: :o 8) :lol:
Wow, cold! We still haven;t had a frost or a freeze yet here in So Jersey....At least by now we usually get a frost....????Although I know by mid december I wil be biting my tongue when we're in the low 20s at night.....UGH!
Last edited by sidpook on Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by TerdalFarm » Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:46 pm

[quote="Cowtown Palm Society"]

Man we've had lots of snow too...at least I've got a path shoveled to the hot tub for tonight, which will be a toasty 104 :D .

[/quote]

Thanks for the reminder--hot tub needs servicing. Plan is to sit in it and look at palms in the heated, lighted, glass-fronted palm hut :D

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sidpook
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Post by sidpook » Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:52 pm

TerdalFarm wrote:
Cowtown Palm Society wrote:
Man we've had lots of snow too...at least I've got a path shoveled to the hot tub for tonight, which will be a toasty 104 :D .
Thanks for the reminder--hot tub needs servicing. Plan is to sit in it and look at palms in the heated, lighted, glass-fronted palm hut :D
Still didn't fix it? I think you mentioned that back in September! LOL
Mike Trautner

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Post by TerdalFarm » Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:59 pm

Yeah, we've been broke. W has been unemployed since March. Just started a new job, as a helicopter nurse.
This link should take you to a photo from a few minutes ago after transporting her first patient:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3 ... 1506588311
When the money comes in, and we dig out of debt, and I fly to Belize, then we can fix the hot tub :lol:

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sidpook
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Post by sidpook » Thu Nov 18, 2010 6:10 pm

TerdalFarm wrote:Yeah, we've been broke. W has been unemployed since March. Just started a new job, as a helicopter nurse.
This link should take you to a photo from a few minutes ago after transporting her first patient:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3 ... 1506588311
When the money comes in, and we dig out of debt, and I fly to Belize, then we can fix the hot tub :lol:

WOw, sorry to hear that. Although Helicopter nurse, pretty exciting gig. Hope you guys are doing well soon! Enjoy the Thanksgiving Holidays.....
Mike
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Post by TerdalFarm » Thu Nov 18, 2010 6:13 pm

I'll enjoy them; she'll be working. Nurses work every holiday. :(

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sidpook
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Post by sidpook » Thu Nov 18, 2010 6:47 pm

TerdalFarm wrote:I'll enjoy them; she'll be working. Nurses work every holiday. :(
I hear that. My partners a nurse anesthetist...loooong hours!
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Post by canadianplant » Thu Nov 18, 2010 7:30 pm

Duncan, i lived in calgary for 2 years, i theres one thing i know, the longer the cold, the better and warmer the chinook is :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

As for plants in dark..... all i have experience with, is my fargesia rufa, which had 2 or 3 months buried under leaves and snow, and came otu 100% fine.....

My sister isnt to happy witht the weather there right now LOL
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lucky1
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Location: Vernon BC, Zone 5a or 5b (close to 6A!)

Post by lucky1 » Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:50 pm

Oh man that's cold, Duncan :sad11:

Re your Q about yuccas getting no light over winter, I'd be interested in that answer too.
perhaps post Q under Yucca topic.
Lots of our "desert folks" will know.

Enjoy that hot soak, take a shovel with you in case you have to shovel your way back INTO the house. :lol:

Erik, congrats on W earning her wings...attagirl!
When are you heading off to Belize?

Yes..happy Thanksgiving to everybody south of the border! (ours was mid-Oct)
Barb
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igor.glukhovtsev
Large Palm
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Location: Almaty, Kazakhstan, Zone 6a, 43°15′00″

Post by igor.glukhovtsev » Thu Nov 18, 2010 10:30 pm

Cowtown Palm Society wrote:Hi All,

but what do guys think about no light for 3-4 months, before I can go to a lighter kind of protection?
Duncan It shouldn't be a problem keeping your yuccas in a dark for 3-4 month. From my own experience Yucca recurvifolia has been stored under a cover in unheated greenhouse for 3 month at least with no any damage at all. Dormancy is a key factor. If a temperature under your palm hut is below zero they must be OK.
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canadianplant
Clumping Palm
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Post by canadianplant » Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:52 am

Thats good to know igor....... now i dont have to worry about mine at all!!!

If you guys think duncan is cold, regina this morning-20, felt like - 32C............. same with saskatoon.......
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igor.glukhovtsev
Large Palm
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Post by igor.glukhovtsev » Fri Nov 19, 2010 6:21 am

canadianplant wrote:Thats good to know igor....... now i dont have to worry about mine at all!!!

If you guys think duncan is cold, regina this morning-20, felt like - 32C............. same with saskatoon.......
Don't worry about Saskatchewan. They have no plus 15-20 in January as Calgary has occasionally. Cold is the Cold. Nobody pretends growing Yuccas in Regina, doesn't?
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Cowtown Palm Society
Seedling
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Location: Calgary, Alberta (zone 4a/4b)

Post by Cowtown Palm Society » Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:33 am

The chinook is in the forecast http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinook_wind, but it always is at the end of these cold blasts. The chinook will happen, but hopefully sooner than later :D .

Saskatchewan...now that place is cold. My wife is from there. When the cold starts it doesn't end 'till April. A couple of years ago in Saskatoon, they had like 65 days in row, never above freezing...at any point :shock: ! Yucca glaucas love it there though Igor. I think filimentosa too?

Thanks all for insights on no light for yuccas. Barb, I will throw it out to yucca experts in the desert section.

Happy Thanksgiving to our American friends!

Duncan
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igor.glukhovtsev
Large Palm
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Post by igor.glukhovtsev » Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:02 am

Yucca glauca is fine for DRY minus 30. I rather have problems with this Yucca particularly in my place. It rots sometime in winter time here.I lost my Glauca twice when Gloriosa or Recurvifolia never mind cold or whatever. Filamentosa requires a little high temperature. Calgary, Alberta is OK but ... I know the folks growing it in Moscow region. They do it well but the Climate is different. I would suggest a huge pile of mulch on the Filamentosa in area you query.
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Cowtown Palm Society
Seedling
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Post by Cowtown Palm Society » Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:28 am

Igor,

I meant to cover my filimentosa just because it was so expensive. Too late, it's buried in snow :? . My glaucas are buried too.

Interesting to hear about Moscow. It has same yearly temperature average as Calgary: 40f :shock: .

Two of coldest cities in the populated world (let's say cities over 1,000,000 people).

Duncan
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canadianplant
Clumping Palm
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Post by canadianplant » Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:04 am

Duncan..... i got my filamentosa for 7 bucks at super store..... mabey youll see someting there next year???

The snow is the cover it needs dude, the soil there is all sand, and from what ive seen it never rally freezes100%. I dont think youd even have to amend the soil there to much for cacti, seeing as some oputina and cholla cactus grow there ( and even in saskatchewan).

And ID say regina, edmonton, moscow and the capital of mongolia ( the name escapes me)... those are some damn cold major cities.... Then again winnipeg gets colder then regina i think.......
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Cowtown Palm Society
Seedling
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Post by Cowtown Palm Society » Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:18 am

Canadian, you're right...that's hilarious :lol: . I was trying to think of that city too. It's Ulaanbaatar. Neat looking place, maybe I'll go someday. For sure too on those other desolate places listed. I think Helsinki, Finland is up there too-probably more moderate though ie. colder summers, slightly warmer winters.

Agreed on the soil here. By the time the freeze up comes around, there's usually zero moisture left in the soil. I'll get some pics up of the winter wonderland in the next couple of days.

Stay warm in T-Bay brother 8) .

Duncan
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