Palm hut -- about time!

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TerdalFarm
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Palm hut -- about time!

Post by TerdalFarm » Sat Nov 13, 2010 6:15 pm

I have been slow in getting my palm hut built. I've been busy with work, and W has a new job 2 hours from home.
We finally got started this afternoon as the sun was getting low and the forecast called for another freeze. She and my son sawed boards while I dug up and potted a bunch of plants that I should have dug weeks ago.
We did not get the palm hut finished, but close enough I could set four buckets of hot tap water in it and cover it all with the sun shade, which blew down in the storm yesterday.
Here is a photo of the framing work, done by my favorite carpenter (W) as the sun was setting. Some of the potted palms are in the background, including the almost certainly dead PDP (now in the dining room).

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ScottyON
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Post by ScottyON » Sat Nov 13, 2010 6:17 pm

It's a start, right? Are you working on it tomorrow too??
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Post by TerdalFarm » Sat Nov 13, 2010 6:28 pm

We'll do more tomorrow but probably won't finish.
And I haven't ordered the thermocubes yet.
But, no real cold in the forecast. So I have time, right? :oops:
--Erik

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Post by lucky1 » Sat Nov 13, 2010 8:39 pm

Good start, folks.

3 more walls, couple o' beams across to hold a rigid roof, and Bob's your uncle :lol: :lol:

Did we forget to tell you that the moment it's done and in place, your temps will warm up for a month?
Barb
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ScottyON
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Post by ScottyON » Sun Nov 14, 2010 4:01 am

I'm sure you'll have lots of time.. Just keep plugging away at it.. When do you usually get cold to stay?
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TerdalFarm
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Post by TerdalFarm » Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:59 pm

Scotty,
temperatures here fluctuate all winter. A few years ago we got to 0 oF (-18 oC) in early December; we have also hit 80 oF in February several times in recent years. In general, though, early January is always cold. Well, almost always. So, basically, I want to be ready on short notice.
Last night we only got to 31 oF (-1 oC) which is no big deal. This palm hut is for a trio of Chameadorea radicalis, which I have not grown outside but assume need serious protection. The extra challenge is that I am going to try over-wintering Musa basjoo stems in there to give them sun protection in Spring. So, I hope to keep temps at or above freezing all winter. And oh yes, I want to be able to see my palm hut plants in winter. Nothing like a challenge, right? And to top it off, we are broke and so have to make this palm hut with stuff we have lying around the farm.
The front is an old sheet of glass from a door. The back is insulated with unused fiberglass insulation, with sheet metal to keep the wind and chickens out. Sides are plastic so far. The roof is still being designed. I'll keep throwing the "sun shade" over top for the cold nights until it is done.
Stay tuned for construction updates.
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lucky1
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Post by lucky1 » Sun Nov 14, 2010 4:59 pm

You two have been busy :D
Is W on the south side? (glass is east?) great orientation

Nice work! Love it!
Barb
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TerdalFarm
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Post by TerdalFarm » Sun Nov 14, 2010 5:12 pm

Barb,
this is a work in progress. W is MUCH better than I am at design details. Basically, this is all her work.
The glass faces SE and so will catch the morning light as it comes around the house (even down here the sun is low in winter). My hope is that will lead to quick warm-ups.
W wants to replace the sheet metal on the SW (where she is standing) with something translucent to let evening sun in to warm water buckets we have in there to buffer temp. fluctuations.
Again, everyone, this is a work in progress. Suggestions welcome! I know many of you have been building palm huts for years and must have useful tips for us. --Erik

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TimMAz6
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Post by TimMAz6 » Sun Nov 14, 2010 6:21 pm

looks better than mine! I set mine up today for my Trachy takil 'nanital', Wollemi pine and Sabal 'birmingham.

Before poly:
<img src=http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c309/ ... 01249a.jpg>

With 6mil film on:
<img src=http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c309/ ... 101647.jpg>
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Post by Stevea07 » Sun Nov 14, 2010 8:42 pm

Are you going with double poly layers?

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TimMAz6
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Post by TimMAz6 » Mon Nov 15, 2010 6:23 am

Hi Steve,

I'm only using single poly layer with some jugs full of water inside......and xmas lights. I'll turn on lights on cold nights. Trachy has been through 2 winters with this protection and works......the leaves are green in spring. We don't get that cold here....generally less than 10 nights below 10F and a couple nights near or just below 0F (-18C).
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lucky1
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Post by lucky1 » Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:28 am

good frame idea, Tim, heavy snow would just slide off as long as plastic is taut.
And that solid fence protects from winter wind. :D
Zone envy!!!! :lol:
Barb
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TimMAz6
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Post by TimMAz6 » Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:13 pm

Hi Barb,

so far the snow hasn't caused any structrual issues......10 years ago I started with 4 mil plastic and learned very fast that it's not durable enough.............I replaced the plastic in 20F degree weather in January after it was screaded by wind. 6 mil plastic does fine.

I'm not looking forward to this:
<img src=http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c309/ ... 010035.jpg>
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hardyjim
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Post by hardyjim » Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:58 am

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
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Post by lucky1 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:05 am

Hopefully it's a while yet before you see that scene again, Tim.
Thanks for the (BRRRRRR) pic.
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TerdalFarm
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thermocubes

Post by TerdalFarm » Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:04 pm

I have not had time to work more on the palm hut. We need staples as the fiberglass batting has fallen over (it was merely pressed into place). Will need to finish it this weekend. Warm weather--may hit 70 oF!--but the local meteorologists are talking about a white Thanksgiving, if you know what I mean. They say there is serious cold brewing in Canada headed our way in a week.
I bought a couple thermocubes today, right off the shelf for US$13 each. (Photo below.) They were at the local farm supply store. I know some of you have written about the difficulty of finding and ordering them online. Have you considered just going to a farm supply store? They are all full of winter protection supplies right now for livestock, but we can use the same stuff for our beloved palms.

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Lc ... site"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/_r-MvN4jW1sE/TOMdB ... AG0340.jpg" height="383" width="640" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/terdalfarm/ ... ">November 2010</a></td></tr></table>

lucky1
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Post by lucky1 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:17 pm

Erik,
With your nice weather next week, you could even spot-glue the fibreglass versus stapling.

Yup, that serious weather is about to hit us in the next 36 hours.
Duncan in Calgary already got nailed with snow and cold, saw ugly snow pictures on TV this morning.
Temp already dropped 5 degrees the last hour.

I ordered my T-3 thermocube from an American online sheep/farm supply place.
Hope it arrives before February :lol:
Barb
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oppalm
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Post by oppalm » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:10 pm

thats alot of snow. nice job on the palm hut. working on mine this weekend. I'll take pictures and post my progess.
Kent in Kansas
where it's cold in winter (always)
and hot in summer (usually)
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TerdalFarm
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Post by TerdalFarm » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:12 pm

Kent,
I look forward to your photos and suggestions. We're both going to get our first real cold (what Duncan has now) by the end of next week. --Erik

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Post by canadianplant » Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:41 am

Well, from norther latitudes in BC all the way to manitoba are going to se e-20C lows for about 6 days. Calgary will be seeing highs from -6C to about -10C for a week. They are also talking about more snow as well.

Most of central canada has seen snow, from edmonton to alberta to about wawa ontario ( above sault ste marie), from 10cm - 30cm of snow. They are talking about high pressure building in from the states and comming up here. The downside... the jet stream ( from what i seen) is going to go down as far as texas in saturday......

Here it is still actualy above normal ( the passiflora pics you seen prove it hasnt gone below -2 or so as a low)

Eric, im sure your protection will work fine. From what i heard the south east states are going to have a very similar winter to last... ( ive seen a few different prdictions, the predictions of a similar winter seem to be more abundant). Prepare for the worse, so you can have the best in the spring!!!

The only suggestion i have is leaves, a lot of leaves.....
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Re: thermocubes

Post by JackLord » Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:31 pm

TerdalFarm wrote:I have not had time to work more on the palm hut. We need staples as the fiberglass batting has fallen over (it was merely pressed into place). Will need to finish it this weekend. Warm weather--may hit 70 oF!--but the local meteorologists are talking about a white Thanksgiving, if you know what I mean. They say there is serious cold brewing in Canada headed our way in a week.
I bought a couple thermocubes today, right off the shelf for US$13 each. (Photo below.) They were at the local farm supply store. I know some of you have written about the difficulty of finding and ordering them online. Have you considered just going to a farm supply store? They are all full of winter protection supplies right now for livestock, but we can use the same stuff for our beloved palms.

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Lc ... site"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/_r-MvN4jW1sE/TOMdB ... AG0340.jpg" height="383" width="640" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/terdalfarm/ ... ">November 2010</a></td></tr></table>


I went a Googling to do research on those and noticed that it was mostly farmers using them. Lot have them hooked up to strobe lights to alert the farmers as to when it gets too cold for livestock.

I ended up getting mine off of Amazon.com. Its going in the Flower house dome that I procurred especially for the Butia. The rest of my boys get leaf cages or just a nice dose of mulch.

Anyway, your hut is looking good. I think I will have to build something like that next year as the Butia outgrows the Flower house and its reallocated for my next mad scheme.

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Post by TerdalFarm » Wed Nov 17, 2010 1:49 pm

Jack,
that strobe light thing is great! It would be a nice visual reminder that the temps have dropped and we need to make sure the 100+ animals are protected. Maybe we could train 'em to come to the barn when the light comes on :lol:
We'll try to finish the palm hut Sunday, when the air should be 70 oF here. Nice! The real cold is not supposed to come until Wednesday morning.
I also need to buy more of my plumbers heat tape for some of those Sabal.
I'm also scheming a new protection plan for zone 7 palms I'll describe after I've thought it through more. --Erik

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Post by hardyjim » Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:11 pm

Thermocube arrived yesterday-
finally got off my but and did something today..........
Covered the ferns and hooked up the X-mas lights to the T-3

Next are the Washys.
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wind protection

Post by TerdalFarm » Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:06 pm

The winds are calm now and it is a balmy 48 oF (9 oC) so I have house windows open.
Yesterday was very windy and I feared the half-done palm hut would blow over. W stapled the fiberglass in place and I tied it to the 4" x 6" post (for Summer protection) and set chairs with water buckets along the edge. This thing might fly!
We're hoping that having a roof will help, but I'll have to keep checking on it.

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lucky1
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Post by lucky1 » Thu Nov 18, 2010 3:22 pm

That pic looks like it's spring, Erik.
There you go, you did it.

Q: does that back wall "swing/hinge" down for a roof?
Guessing probably not, otherwise the nanas would be decapitated.
Or are you using a strong tarp, stretched tightly, for the angled roof?

Jim, good...you'll likely be glad in, oh, about 7 days :?
My T-3 hasn't arrived, so I'll wing it with the remote thermometer and heater.
(picture in my mind: Canadian Border security still looking at the T-3, wondering what it is). :|

Barb
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Post by TerdalFarm » Thu Nov 18, 2010 3:36 pm

It felt like Spring today, with highs of 48 oF or so. A week from now it will feel like winter. :x
Up to now, we have pulled the sun-shade the wind ripped down over it for the coldest nights.
Sunday, we plan to construct a rigid sloped roof. I'll post details as we figure it out.
Still have to mulch, insert the heater, and hopefully a light. We have warm weather forecast for the next few days (might hit 70 oF!), so as long as the palm hut is "done" by Wednesday we are good to go.

Has anyone else checked their local farm store for thermocubes right on the shelf? To me, that seems easier than ordering online, but then again I am in a farm store regularly.

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Post by lucky1 » Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:29 pm

It's good you've got a week to get it done.

A light is a good idea :? which I wished for tonight.
Just after supper, it was -7C 19F.
The remote thermometer in the palm hut said -1C 30F.
Rushed out because I remembered the heater wasn't plugged in.
Couldn't see a @$#&^%# thing inside the hut, had to feel for the controls.
Tomorrow a trouble light is going in there!

Thermocube is en route...our one farm supply store here normally has zilch other then feed and irrigation equipment.

Barb
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Post by hardyjim » Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:59 am

I have seen anywhere from 8F to 17F(-13c to -8c) forecast here for next Wednesday night,
needless to say,this weekend things are getting done :shock:
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Post by TerdalFarm » Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:18 am

We plan to finish the heated palm hut this weekend.
I have Wednesday off from work and plan to leave the zone 8 palms + Sabal seedlings outside until that day as we have a warm forecast until then before the "cold" weather Duncan has had gets down here.
December, and Dec - Feb, forecasts are still for warmer than average weather but that doesn't mean it won't be very cold on occasion. I don't want to do anything else dumb like I did with PDP and Hibiscus rosa-sinensis earlier this month. :oops:
I think we have low 20s oF for Thanksgiving morning, so I want to be ready for that. :shock:
--Erik

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update

Post by TerdalFarm » Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:54 pm

We did not get the roof up this weekend. W worked a lot. It turns out we have somewhat different ideas on how to build a roof which we'll have to work out in the next few days.

Fortunately, unusually warm weather is holding. We are near record high lows!

I installed a brooder heat lamp (250w bulb). The first photo shows it turned on, but you can see the thermocube (white) sitting on an upturned planting pot. Before we get really cold weather I'll put in a ceramic heater with a fan, but this should do for now + let us see the palms through the glass front.

The photo also shows a design fault in the structure. It has been very windy lately. The 2" x 4" on the east side broke today from the twisting forces the winds exerted. I begin to suspect I have the largest free-standing palm hut in tornado alley, or at least the flimsiest.

The second photo is merely to "set the scene" of how the garden looks now.

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Post by lucky1 » Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:49 am

Erik,

It's good you've got some time before cold arrives.

The wind broke a 2 x 4??? :shock:
Normally the plastic shreds first...especially when it's really cold.

Barb
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update (80 oF!)

Post by TerdalFarm » Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:13 am

We're trying to finish the palm hut today with a roof for the rain coming tonight and to reinforce for the winds.
Here is a photo in progress.
Mostly I'm just posting to rub it in that it is 80 oF (26 oC) now at 1 pm! :D :D :D
(OK, I'll be at -7 oC real soon :( )
--Erik

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Post by canadianplant » Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:21 pm

Those radicalis are pimp :twisted:
"The definition of insanity, is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results" - einstien

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TerdalFarm
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Post by TerdalFarm » Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:13 pm

Thanks!
Roof is up, but I'm out adding wind protection now--very windy. And 80 oF :D
More photos soon. --Erik

lucky1
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Post by lucky1 » Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:14 pm

Attaboy, Erik.

Enjoy your warmth!
Barb
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TerdalFarm
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Enjoying the warmth

Post by TerdalFarm » Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:13 pm

Barb,
we are!
It is 27 oF this evening and heading down to 20 oF overnight, which is warm in comparison with everyone else here.

Yesterday, W came home after working 30 hours so of course I handed her a hammer and put her to work, knowing she had a 52 hours shift coming up (am I good a H or what?).

Here are a few photos, #1&2 from yesterday:
#1 W hard at work
#2 palm hut nearly done
#3 proof that the thermocube works (from a few minutes ago)

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/PR ... site"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/_r-MvN4jW1sE/TO1-O ... AG0356.jpg" height="640" width="383" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/terdalfarm/ ... ">November 2010</a></td></tr></table>

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/wH ... site"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/_r-MvN4jW1sE/TO2ZC ... AG0363.jpg" height="383" width="640" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/terdalfarm/ ... ">November 2010</a></td></tr></table>


<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/hc ... site"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_r-MvN4jW1sE/TO87D ... AG0378.jpg" height="383" width="640" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/terdalfarm/ ... ">November 2010</a></td></tr></table>

lucky1
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Post by lucky1 » Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:43 pm

You did it! or should I say, W did it 8)

The entire hut is see-through, you'll probably add more insulation inside as winter deepens.
Nice job on the roof construction, looks sturdy.

When temps cool you can add a bunch of soil or mulch between its base and the ground to close gaps.

So...you're installing heat tape and C-9s? or heat tape and a ceramic heater?

No hurry though in your good weather :D

Now let that good woman get some rest. :angel9:
Barb

PS--what...5 or 6 more to construct?
:D
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TerdalFarm
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Post by TerdalFarm » Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:04 am

[quote="lucky1"]

Now let that good woman get some rest. :angel9:
Barb


:D[/quote]

She never rests.
She came by this morning to check on the palm hut. Here is a crop of the cell-phone snap she took. I am in a green sweat-shirt toward the upper right, by the diving board. Admiring the palm protection and making plans for today. --Erik

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/2a ... site"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_r-MvN4jW1sE/TO_nB ... AG0162.jpg" height="213" width="308" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/terdalfarm/ ... ">November 2010</a></td></tr></table>

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BILL MA
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Post by BILL MA » Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:14 am

Nice palm house Erik. Sorry I didn't get right back to you that night I was burnt out to the max. All I was saying about the inferred spot lights is they can totally suck the life out of palm fronds by drying them up with heat. Just keep an eye on them, I would hate for you to go through all that work and have the fronds burned from the light. That's all I was saying.

I felt like a jerk after you said that's what you where using :oops: I really hadn't had more then a few minutes to glance over things and I missed your spot light picture.

Hope you had a nice Turkey Day!

Bill

lucky1
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Post by lucky1 » Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:18 am

Erik,
What a cool shot! Looks good.

How're the plans doing in your ball/cold room?
Barb

I meant PLANTS.
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