Outdoor protection, let's see what you're doing!

ScottyON · Post by **ScottyON** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:22 pm

Check it out...http://niagaratropicals.blogspot.com/se ... -results=5

hilashes · Post by **hilashes** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:35 pm

Barrie, thanks for the pic, I'll have to invest in a couple of those! Would I find them at a box store such as Canadian Tire?
I was told by my local nursery to tie up the fronds for easier wrapping and unwrapping. It pained me to see the poor things tied like that, not to mention it wasn't easy to do. I'd much rather refer to other experts on this forum; the tried-and-true.

Thanks again Barrie!

ScottyON · Post by **ScottyON** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:54 pm

Here is the rest of my pertected plants that I finished up on the weekend.

Dwarf Sable.

Musa Basjoo stuffed with leaves.

Agave covered allowing light in but not rain..

img]http://i994.photobucket.com/albums/af66 ... 020448.jpg[/img]

All finished...

ScottyON · Post by **ScottyON** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:56 pm

One more of the protection...

Barrie · Post by **Barrie** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:54 pm

Well Heidi, beautiful? ... I don't know but it serves it's purpose. I picked this up locally at one of the "liquidator stores" in Nanaimo. It's since closed down but I imagine finding one wouldn't be too difficult. I anchor it down with six concrete pier blocks.
When it out grows this I have plan "B" in order already.

Cheers, Barrie.

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:50 pm

A greenhouse skyscraper Barrie?

hilashes-I have seen those on e-bay for sure!

Look through them(type in greenhouses on e-bays search)sometimes you can find better deals/ free shipping.If you have an exposed site(not protected from wind) you will need to make some serious fortifications

http://cgi.ebay.com/Greenhouse-12x7x7-L ... 4a9b679c4f

Paul Ont · Post by **Paul Ont** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:25 pm

Scotty, I'd be giving that Magnolia a bit of protection... I have a small M. virginiana that had sever stem tip die back after last winter. And this is in a species that is zone 5 hardy. M. grandiflora, no matter what you read, is a zone 6 plant. The best forms (BBB, 24 below, Poconos, and Edith Bogue) will need protection outside the wamrest areas of Ontario (z. 6b regions of Niagara, Windsor, and maybe downtown Toronto and Hamilton).

If it were mine, I would mulch it heavily, then wrap the entire plant in frost cloth. That should be enough to get some foliage through the winter!

Cheers,
Paul

Barrie · Post by **Barrie** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:19 am

Paul Ont wrote:That should be enough to get some foliage through the winter!

"some foliage" ? ... oooh, these are substantial trees, ya?
If your're ok with some foliage, no prolemo amigo.
If a tree is what you expect is un árbol substancial ... you may be - fuera de suerte (out of luck).

Cheers, Barrie.

Paul Ont · Post by **Paul Ont** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:41 am

Barrie,
The real problem with these trees in zone 5 is that, until they have completely established, they are likely to have total defoliation and even stem tip or even branch die-back. I think that once the root system has established the stem tip die back won't be an issue, though the foliage will likely still be burned most winters. It's really a small price to pay to grow such a wonderful tree! Anyway, we alreayd grow a lot of plants that aren't completely hardy. And a lot of these (T. fortunei, W. robusta, B. capitata) will ALWAYS need protection in zone 5, and they can grow to the same large dimensions (taller then a Magnolia in the case of W. robusta)... This is one of the reasons I'm making the hybrid Rhodo's- to get a tall growing, large leaved tree that I won't have to worry about having burnt foliage!

Barrie · Post by **Barrie** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:00 pm

I see Paul. I guess I'm disappointed when ever there's winter leaf burn on any of my trees.
For the first time I had leaf burn on a couple of my Eucalyptus trees this past year.
For that reason, I wouldn't grow them if it was a regular occurance. They've outgrown the
problem but looked a bit rough for a couple of months. They're too much of a visual
dominance in the yard to ignore so for me they'd have to look good all the time.

Cheers, Barrie.

BILL MA · Post by **BILL MA** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:39 pm

So what Paul you don't like the tyvek idea? It's better then frost cloth for you guys since the winter is so cold up there. Water proof!

Scott, if you can get your hands on the frost-prof for a reasonable amount try wiltproof, what will get you is the dry air blasts when the leaves can't get enough moisture. Once there rooted in they'll be fine but if you want to save leaves this year you need to take a few measures. Not a big deal really. Frost-prof ships free if you spend more then 50 bucks here. Paul payed a ton of shipping for his so if I can order some for you and ship it cheap I will, let me know.

Bill

ScottyON · Post by **ScottyON** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:56 am

Hey Bill,

Ive been using the Bordo Copper Spray on the leaves for over a month. Would you suggest the Wilt pruf over that?

ScottyON · Post by **ScottyON** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:57 am

Also, would I spray it all winter long?

BILL MA · Post by **BILL MA** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:55 pm

Scott freeze-prof lasts 4-6 weeks so it says and I'm not sure on the wiltpruf but I'm sure it lasts a while. I would use those over what your doing, I don't thing the copper spray will do much but I'm not familiar with it. Isn't it a fungicide?

Bill

BILL MA · Post by **BILL MA** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:57 pm

By the way copper can poison plants if used to much I think.

ScottyON · Post by **ScottyON** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 3:45 pm

Thanks for the tips! I went out and bought some Wilt Pruf. It supposed to last the winter...

Paul Ont · Post by **Paul Ont** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:41 am

The freeze-pruf was not enough to save my bananas from the low of -4C this past week. Not enough of a test to tell for sure if it works.

Basjoo ready to be covered with leaves.
<img src="http://inlinethumb48.webshots.com/33775 ... 600Q85.jpg" alt="IMGP1386">
Banana enclosure. The stalks have been wrapped with c9 lights. It now needs to be filled with leaves... Hope they fall soon!
<img src="http://inlinethumb12.webshots.com/42507 ... 600Q85.jpg" alt="IMGP1385">

Phyllostachys aureosulcata bent over, held in place with Miscanthus culms. I'll likely have to wrap the thicker culms with frost colth to make sure they overwinter sucessfully.
<img src="http://inlinethumb01.webshots.com/31616 ... 600Q85.jpg" alt="IMGP1382">
It's not as easy to bend the thick clums without snapping them!
<img src="http://inlinethumb51.webshots.com/43314 ... 600Q85.jpg" alt="IMGP1383">

Other, smaller, bamboo bent over to be covered by snow.
<img src="http://inlinethumb63.webshots.com/43966 ... 600Q85.jpg" alt="IMGP1384">

And, just for fun, my potted dwarf Trachycarpus fortunei 'wagnerianus' (aka T. wagnerianus)
<img src="http://inlinethumb48.webshots.com/43311 ... 600Q85.jpg" alt="IMGP1374">

Barrie · Post by **Barrie** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:16 pm

We've had winter where temps don't drop below -4°C (24.8°F) and the pseudostems stay solid but the leaves frost down. Come spring they just pick up from where they left off. Last year was a complete die down and are smaller than normal, partly due to drought conditions. A total stage 4 watering ban was in effect from July 31 to just now. The only watering was infrequently on the "cheat" system. I never winter protect these bananas as it's never cold enough to kill 'em out right.

Cheers, Barrie.

P.S. Why would your bamboo culms be bent over like that?

Paul Ont · Post by **Paul Ont** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:13 pm

We bend them over in the colder zones so that they get covered by snow. It gets too cold here for the culms to survive in a cold winter... The snow insulates enough to allow most of the folaige to overwinter!

BILL MA · Post by **BILL MA** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:02 pm

Nice Waggie Paul,

Do you know what typar/tyvek is Paul? Just thought I would ask again since you didn't answer the first time. I was just trying to help you.

By the way the basjoo grove loaded with banana fuel survived 25.6 last night with very little damage. I would say it works in more ways then growth! Imagine if I sprayed it with freeze-pruf? All my other nanas toasted under the same conditions!

Bill

Paul Ont · Post by **Paul Ont** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:56 pm

Sorry Bill, must have missed your question. I've heard of Tyvek before, but I don't think that my current financial situation will aloow me to try too many different things this winter.

25.6f! Are thye in a good microclimate? Mine were toasted at that low even with freeze-pruf. Hmm.

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:46 pm

Yea Bill,did you use Freeze Pruf and not tell anyone?including yourself?

BILL MA · Post by **BILL MA** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:36 am

No worries Paul, I hear ya times are tougher then normal right now for a lot of people. The funny thing about where they are it's actually my coldest spot in the yard. Go figure! There was a 5 gal. bucket about 15 feet away that froze 2 inches at least trust me it was cold. I had the heat cables going but not sure how that would have done anything. No one is really reporting any freeze pruf stories anywhere that I can find, maybe it works better on the palms.

Jim, I wish I used it one a few things trust me! Hope this stuff works, I don't think Franko would put his name on it if it didn't. I heard that he's in the process of writing another book. Can't wait to read it.

Bill

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:15 pm

OSB panels were heavy but only 3 screws hold each to the next one.
Sled base will slide in properly when I finish painting the side closest to house.
One inch "pseudo" styrofoam was friction fit between studs.

Tomorrow the clear slanted roof goes on.

Easy to take panels apart for summer storage.

Note the optimism (height)...for the Trachy's growth.

Will do leaf/wire cage enclosures for the y.rostrata x and also for the Nainital.
Barb

Knnn · Post by **Knnn** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:48 pm

Barb, Looks nice so far! Should be good for a few years too.

Steve

oppalm · Post by **oppalm** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:55 am

very nice to see and hear everybody's wintertime strategies. I am going with leaf cages that I used very successfully last year and then going to build a couple of structures with 2 X 4's to protect a couple of T Fortuneis I have in the ground. I also planted a couple of sabal minors in the ground this summer, they are very small and will just use leave cages and plastic over them. I'll have the camera handy and post some pics. Good overwrintering luck to all.

Paul Ont · Post by **Paul Ont** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:27 am

Kent,

Careful with leaf cages around Sabal minor. For some reason mine were killed to the ground despite the leaf enclosure. If you do go this route, be sure to exclude all moisture and give a good fungicide treatment... There must be a way to do it sucessfully, but I've only had bad luck (also see Francko's book on Sabal minor).

BILL MA · Post by **BILL MA** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:30 pm

Nice boxes Barb! Those are similar to the one I built for my washys. I still haven't installed anything but as soon as I do I'll post pictures.

Are you going to leave the front off for awhile or are the in there for the winter? Also are you putting in a window for access and light? What are you using
for a heat source?

By the way my mailman crashed into my 5 foot trunk musa sikkimensis today! I was raining pretty good so I really didn't get to examine it to closely yet.
It bent it over at least 10 degrees I would say. Hope it's alright! I don't really want to start with zero trunk for next year. What can you do! He said he
would pay for it but what the hell, it's not like he hit it on purpose. Plus he's a cool guy.

Bill

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:15 pm

I think Francko's book is a little out of date in that people(all the people on this and other forums included)have pushed protection methods beyond where he took us in his book-still a great book though,I reread it every fall as I plan my protection.
He mentions wet leaf piles not being effective for Sabals but I don't think anyone on this forum would leave wet leaves on their palms for long.
I think with leaf cages as long as you have a lid are cover of some type that's wider(by about a foot)than what you covering your good.
My Needle palms actually had a frozen wall a foot out from them from the run off of moisture over their rain shield,which I think added an extra barrier from the cold.

Barb that's a nice cover for that Trachy,I see your taking no chances with her this winter

Hopefully it will grow out of it fast

Okanagan desert-palms · Post by **Okanagan desert-palms** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:49 pm

Barb looking good. What was the carpenters attitude when you told him you wanted build a Palm tree hut? I bet he must have been shaking his head

Hopefully you leave the front of that enclosure with double pained clear plastic for some natural light.

John

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:04 pm

Thanks folks...he said "you want it HOW tall?"

He thinks I'm nuts!
A 33 year old palm deserves this much care.

My photo thingy isn't working, damn.

We added a clear roof today on a slant to shed snow.

OSB will turn to mush when wet so I've got to paint the outside.

The heater is a Patton utility heater.
Got a 14 gauge extension cord to prevent cord overheating.

The wireless remote temp sensor and receiver work great.

I've gotta get working on the leaf cages for the y.rostrata x and also for the Nainital.
No shortage of leaves suddenly.

Barb

PS--sheesh, Bill, I hope that Musa makes it! Men drivers

oppalm · Post by **oppalm** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:17 am

THANKS for the heads up Paul. I have another thread on this forum titled, winter protection, zone 6, in which I detail my protection method with leaves and bags. I do spray the plants first with a 3 in a 1 fungicidal spray, allow the plant to dry completely and then put dry leaves on top, then a trash bag or similar plastic wrap over everything and then hold down with bricks or wood. Keeps everyhting very dry and so far this has worked very well (at least for 2 years).

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:14 am

Nice Oppalm
That's the key,(besides fungicide) closing them down when totally dry.
I will probably need to cover my stuff (from rain)for a month now just to dry stuff out.
Jeeeez-we have had 5+ inches of rain in the last week or so.
The only thing that shuts down this El Nino type pattern we are in is,if the Arctic opens up!
One way or another,this is shaping up to be one WILD winter!

macario · Post by **macario** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:51 pm

should be very happy palm this winter. its motivating me to cover my palms this weekend just to get it out of the way.

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:05 pm

Yea Mike,
I think at least put a roof over their heads with all the rain lately all it would take is one serious shot of cold to mess things up.
I plan on covering 90% of my stuff from rain from here on out.
I was hoping 4-5" of mulch would do this but with 5"+ of rain in the last week.....
That much rain just goes right through the mulch!

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:58 pm

And I'm not climbing up there to paint the rest of it

We've had nearly 3 inches of rain in the last 10 days so it's high time the Trachy gets covered.
16C (61F) today.

Husband isn't thrilled how this thing looks from the living room...

Anybody have problems with mice tunneling inside a nice warm enclosure when it's cold/snowing?
I hope they don't chew my palm!

Heater for the palm house:

I'm so excited that the palm is finally in the ground permanently after 33, or is it 34? years.
Barb

BILL MA · Post by **BILL MA** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:25 am

Nice palm hut Barb! You can call that one a palm house I think, you should be good with that one for 7-10 years I'd say. I've never had mice eat any of my palms but they did eat some bark off the bushes close by. I'm planning on using cheyenne powder all around it and mixed into the soil. I might throw in some mouse traps for safe measure, I'm pretty sure they won't like the cheyenne powder! Good thing is it's cheap, something has to be these days.

Barb someone really needs to paint that top piece! Osb will turn into swelled up crap if it gets wet. I'd hate to see that beautiful shelter get ruined. If you have the time put another coat of paint on it. HI gloss would be your best bet, you could even match the siding color so it blends in a little bit.

Great job!

Bill

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:03 am

Thanks.
Good tip about the cayenne pepper.
Lots of field mice here, their tunnels under the snow make a mess of the grass.
I'll use mouse traps too.

Yup...I know you're right about proper paint.
I mixed leftover primer with patio furniture paint, think that's why it didn't work.
It was like painting a sponge

Matching the house colour might put husband in a better mood.

There'll be a lot of heat loss through that clear roof.
Should I staple some 6 ml to create a false roof? the "attic" air pocket might keep heat in longer?

Barb

BILL MA · Post by **BILL MA** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:13 am

I would agree 100 % about the 6 mil plastic idea, that would be a fairly expensive thing to heat otherwise. As for the paint color, 25 bucks for keeping the piece. "PRICELESS"

Make sure to throw in a bunch of milk jugs for a fail safe just in case something happens to the power. If there dry they can take some serious cold, so don't worry one bit.

Bill

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:25 am

"PRICELESS"

Will collect some milk/water bottles; you're using salt water from the ocean?

Hey, have an idea...since the soil in the hut shouldn't freeze with the heater, can I bury my vegetable peelings in there during winter? Composting in winter can feed the palm for year-round friable soil?

I like the idea this palm hut size will be good for 7-10 years.
Then what? oh well, one year at a time!
Barb

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