Sick Foxtail?

Discuss palms you grow inside.

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sashaeffer
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Sick Foxtail?

Post by sashaeffer » Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:53 am

Foxtail was outside this summer and grew well, but has gone in steady decline once brought inside.

Now kept in "plant room" where radiant heater keeps room at 72 deg. Plant gets misted daily, and soil kept damp. Fronds drying up, from the tips and working it's way in until entire leaf is brown and dry. Soil kept damp.

Any ideas? Pics below. Light in room is daylight spectrum light and on for 12+hrs a day. All other plants in room doing ok.


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seedscanada
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Post by seedscanada » Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:48 am

I suggest less misting, instead increase the relative humidity in the room. And let the soil begin to dry out between waterings. Your current setup, without natural direct sunlight, is a recipe for a fatal fungal disease.

Many of us lost our spindle palms last winter due to similar symptoms. Sometimes there is nothing you can do.
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Post by canadianplant » Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:40 am

What temps did it get hit by before you brought it inside? The first pic looks like frost damage to me, but the spear would be done as well, not just the lower branches. Even with a daylight bulb, it might just be shut down for winter, and the "damp" soil and warmth is trying to get it to grow? If you didnt acclimate it to indoor conditions, it could just be reacting to lack of light?
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Post by sashaeffer » Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:48 am

It was brought in well below any cold weather. One frond had bit of spider mites, but misted that with alcohol/soap mix and wiped all fronds off with towel soaked in Neem oil. That was a couple of weeks ago, and no more spider mites. All plants around the foxtail were sprayed with same solution too, and all look ok. That was when Foxtail was in different room, facing the West, with bright ceiling light left on all day(halogen). Of the 20? plants in that room, all are fine except the Foxtail.

The damage started from lowest frond and has been working it's way up so far.
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Post by canadianplant » Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:50 am

Do you have a guess at the lowest temp? Even at 5C some plants may get damaged.... Also, did you acclimate it, as it sit it in some shade for a week or 2 before bringing it in?
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Post by sashaeffer » Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:01 am

Oh, maybe 45? Never saw any frost or real cold.

Palm sat in full sun pretty much and loved it outside. Could almost watch the thing grow! No, didn't put in shade first. Humidity in room it WAS in, is always around 50-60% Room now? maybe 50% since there is a radiant heater in that room, but again doesn't seem to bother other plants.

Not sure if it looked like over fertilization at all??
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Post by canadianplant » Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:12 am

It could just be acclimating to indoor conditions. After getting mites, and the spray routine, it was just stressed maybe, and is in a slow decline before it perks up? My rubber trees always do this, especially my F religiosa.

It could be resurgance of the spider mites or a slow reaction to the spray regime?

Id let the pot dry out a bit, then throw it in the shower and flush the pot, to remove the salts from fert, and any residual chemicals and soap from spraying. It might be as simple as it being just too wet?
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Post by sashaeffer » Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:16 am

So leaves can dry out from soil being too wet? I know fert damage can cause that.
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Post by canadianplant » Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:28 am

Im thinking rot, like Adam suggested. I just cant remember if that kills the top leaves first, or the bottom. I do know, as a general rule, most houseplants like the soil to dry out a bit before watering.

It could be as simple as foxtails being hard to grow indoors... Maybe PM barb, or wait for her to pipe in, seeing as she has one about the same size as yours.
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Post by sashaeffer » Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:35 pm

Another possibility? Could it be root bound? When I bought this palm I didn't transplant it and simply put grow pot it came in inside another pot that was bigger around, and filled the space between the pots with pea gravel for stability and weight since it was outside.

Just pulled the grow pot out from inside the larger pot and noticed roots trying to come out drain holes at the bottom of the grow pot. Brushing away the pea gravel sitting on top of the grow pot and sticking my finger in the soil I can tell it's "damp" but hardly wet. My moisture meter is really sensitive and almost always tests "wet" in just about anything I have. Now I wonder if maybe it's so root bound that water wasn't making it to the bottom of the pot.
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Post by lucky1 » Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:50 pm

Hi Scott,
Foxtails hate to come inside.
But they'd croak outdoors so there's no option.

Mine does similar stuff to yours on coming in.

Cut off that oldest frond...the ugliest one, had a bad case of spider mites.

72 is too warm.
I'd put it in the coolest room possible--maybe an unused room, and block off the heating but give it brightest window there.
65F and even a bit cooler is best...and no more watering for a month.

Repot only in spring.
If root tips are coming out the bottom, that's not a problem, as root tips will die as they hit the air.
The rest of the roots will be fine.

There's a direct relationship with daylight/strength and temperature.
I'm still working on finding it exactly.

All palms have a lower frond or two that dies off annually...it's when the spear dies that you're in trouble.
Just cut off the dead frond when it's completely brown (wait past the yellow stage).

Good luck.
Barb
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Post by sashaeffer » Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:12 am

So maybe basement? it's cooler down there (mid 60's) but also doesn't get much light as only has two north facing windows.
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Post by lucky1 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:52 am

I'd opt for the basement, with a full spectrum grow-light bulb.
Easy to screw into a trouble light cord suspended two feet above.
14-16 hrs a day on a timer.
At 60F, it won't need misting except very lightly every couple of weeks.

There's just no way to please Foxtails; so finicky when they come indoors. :roll:

Mine hates it in the cold barely-heated building.
We'll see how it does its first year there.
New spear came to a full stop, not growing.
But no spider mites.

Good luck with it Scott.
Barb
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Post by sashaeffer » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:54 am

Yea, the newest spear I have stopped pushing as well. Just hate seeing all the fronds dry up.

How cold does it get in your building? Maybe I should over winter mine in garage with the rest of the palms I have out there. My garage never drops below freezing, but not sure if that would be too cold for my foxtail.
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Post by lucky1 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:59 am

Like I said, Scott, it's the first year in the cold building.
So it's pretty iffy too.
A few days ago it was at 9C which is 48F (but it's been a bit colder... :? )

It's the SUDDEN moves (20 degree drops/increases) of a new location that is bad.
I'd go with the basement versus the garage.

Barb
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Post by sashaeffer » Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:17 am

Ok, thanks.

I think simply for the ease of moving it(its tall) I will move into our bedroom. Usually cooler than rest of the house it has LARGE East facing windows and a tall enough ceiling where it will have room.

I had put it in warm plant room thinking it would prefer the warmer temps like it was used to outside.
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Post by lucky1 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:46 pm

warm plant room thinking it would prefer the warmer temps like it was used to outside
I thought that too, Scott.
It obviously doesn't like lower humidity with warmth.
Cool temps provide natural humidity.

Foxtails (Wodyetia) were originally discovered in Queensland, I believe.
So I looked at their high/low temps (obviously warmer near the coast) and try to duplicate that.
'coz that's what their genes are used to. :lol: :lol:

Then I remembered I got my seeds from the Palm Society in Florida.
Florida is known for its high humidity, and some very cool winter temps.

Hope this helps, Scott.
I struggle with the bugger too.

Maybe we'll both be buying new ones come Spring. :|

Barb
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Post by lucky1 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:58 pm

Queensland min temps:

Minimum temperature

The Queensland area averaged minimum temperature (see notes section) was 0.16 °C below the long-term average of 17.0 °C (1961-1990), the lowest since 1994.

The coldest night was at Stanthorpe Leslie Parade with -4.0 °C on 2 Sep, followed by Applethorpe with -3.8 °C on 2 Sep, followed by Roma Airport with -3.5 °C on 3 Sep.

The coolest nights on average were at Applethorpe with 8.0 °C, followed by Stanthorpe Leslie Parade with 8.2 °C, followed by Warwick with 9.6 °C.

The warmest nights on average were at Coconut Island with 24.8 °C, followed by Horn Island with 24.6 °C, followed by Sweers Island with 24.6 °C, followed by Willis Island with 23.9 °C.

The warmest night was at Ballera Gas Field with 30.5 °C on 27 Nov, followed by Ballera Gas Field with 30.2 °C on 30 Nov, followed by Boulia Airport with 30.0 °C on 27 Nov.
Some sites had their lowest spring temperature on record. Some sites had their lowest spring mean daily minimum temperature on record. Some sites had their lowest spring mean daily minimum temperature for at least 20 years.

from here: http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/current/s ... mary.shtml
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Post by sashaeffer » Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:15 pm

Who Again is the member in Kansas that has a large one that he brings inside?
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Post by lucky1 » Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:24 am

I'm drawing a mental blank.... :roll:
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Post by sashaeffer » Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:41 am

Barb, it was Oppalm in Kansas. I sent Kent a PM about mine since he's able to keep his going fine inside during the winter.
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Post by lucky1 » Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:55 am

Ah, yes, you're right.

Kent has his big Foxtail tucked in the livingroom corner, with a grow light directly above it, clamped to a tall bamboo pole.
Hope he shares his secret...and update too.
Think he has a 4-footer Foxtail too.

Barb
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Post by sashaeffer » Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:36 am

Well after some PM's with Oppalm(kent) in Kansas who has manged to keep a foxtail similar to mine alive for a few winters it seems like the best thing for mine was to move it in with the Majesty palm in the master bath jacuzzi tub. Over head not seen in pics is two spotlights with daylight spectrum spot lights that are on all day, and being next to small West facing window. Both palm pots sit on a elevated ring so water can pass through them when watered. Humidity will be naturally high, but have 5 gallon bucket of water in tub between palms. Will keep success posted so others can learn.


Image
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Post by lucky1 » Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:13 pm

Oh heck, just cut off that ugly lowest frond.
Immediate improvement...that's what I do.
A nice spear has started.
They go really slow during winter, and that spear will explode in late winter/early spring.

Barb
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Post by sashaeffer » Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:38 pm

All fronds are affected by the drying leaves. :( When outside it was simply amazing how fast this palm would grow and push new spears. I'll be happy to just keep it alive till spring.
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Post by lucky1 » Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:43 pm

Whenever I want to throw mine out the door into freezing weather, I look at this photo.
And I keep the big Foxtail.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/southslope/6360640803/" title="foxtail_palm_b2js by edible_plum, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6234/6360 ... 735f_z.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="foxtail_palm_b2js"></a>

I think Foxtails are worth the hassle.

Barb
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Post by sashaeffer » Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:50 pm

Sigh..... :? I would LOVE mine to look something like that this summer..
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Post by lucky1 » Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:03 pm

Yup, that's what keeps me going too.

OK, went up to the cold building; here's my Foxtail.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/southslope/8328401166/" title="009 by edible_plum, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8083/8328 ... 0dfe_c.jpg" width="800" height="600" alt="009"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/southslope/8328423548/" title="011 by edible_plum, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8219/8328 ... 46a2_c.jpg" width="600" height="800" alt="011"></a>

No water in at least a month.
The soil is so dry it looks like concrete.
Temp is very cool...my hands got cold taking photos :lol:

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/southslope/8328409858/" title="019 by edible_plum, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8073/8328 ... a7c8_c.jpg" width="600" height="800" alt="019"></a>

10C = 50F

Mine looked like crap last winter in the warm house...spider mites big time.
Not a sign of a web on it in that building.
But it's a long time until spring.
:roll:

Barb
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Post by sashaeffer » Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:16 pm

wow, that looks really good! How long has it been in the building with low light?
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Post by lucky1 » Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:43 pm

I think all the plants went in there end September.
Can't remember for sure.

The 10 large windows flood the room when it's sunny; need sunglasses. :lol: :lol:

So unless it croaks from the cold until it goes back outdoors in 3+ months, I'm convinced cool is better than warm for Foxtail in winter.

Barb
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