Best seed suggestions for first timer.........

Germination Techniques

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sashaeffer
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Best seed suggestions for first timer.........

Post by sashaeffer » Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:58 am

Went and bought one of those indoor free standing green houses. Have in south facing window which will boost temps, but there will be times when sun won't be on it and temps could drop to 68deg

Want to try to germinate some Palm seeds and was looking for advice on what seeds seem to have the best germination rate. Also, if a minimum temp of 68 is too cold for any palm germination.

Saw a pic in seed thread where someone germinated seeds in dirt inside a zip lock bag and didn't know if that helps with heat retention or what.


Open for suggestions.

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Scott


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gpenny
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Post by gpenny » Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:44 am

The quickest germinators are Washingtonias (filifera,robusta,filabusta) and almost any Phoenix sp. The baggie method speeds things up as the bags act as mini-greenhouses. A little bottom heat definitely speeds things up as most of these like temps of at least 75-80F. At those temps the seeds can pop in as little as 7-10 days. Good luck!

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Post by sashaeffer » Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:58 am

Thanks! Just trying to think of SAFE method of supplemental for that little structure. Thinking a very small wattage single bulb of some kind.

Have to be mindful of the cheap, thin plastic covering of the green house too.

I'll start seed hunting!
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TimMAz6
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Post by TimMAz6 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:59 am

I agree try Washy's and Pheonix, Trachy's don't require super hot soil either. Baggies can be placed on top of some thing which generates heat like refridge, TV, radio, utility room boiler, etc some people have great success with 'delidding' the seed too
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sashaeffer
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Post by sashaeffer » Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:03 am

Delidding? is that where you soak the covering off of the seed?
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TimMAz6
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Post by TimMAz6 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:53 am

I never tried delidding but yes soak seed and scrap off some of the seed covering where the root will sprout. I think a few people on this board have posted it's procedure. See Cameron's seed germination post under the topic "germination"

not sure if the link will work
http://www.palmsnorth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3519
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lucky1
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Post by lucky1 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:25 am

Yup, that's the link to read...very interesting stuff that Cameron and others have done.
Delidding can be a touchy process, and I wouldn't recommend trying it yet, especially with expensive seeds.
A really light sanding with fine-grade sandpaper was safer for me.
Different species have embryos in different areas of the seed and Cameron's got pics posted of embryo locations.

Congrats Scott on your GH purchase.
I've got that same one, also the taller version.
My experience is that GHs are good for putting potted seeds after they've popped.
But for germination, it's not warm enough, even with a light bulb.
The row near the bulb gets too warm probably 'coz I used a metal baking sheet as a drip pan; the other row is blocked from heat by the pan.
Electric germinating mats are probably the best way to start.

I'd start with some date palms from store bought dates just to get the hang of it.
And buy some hydrogen peroxide 3% (2 or 3 bottles :lol: ) for the inevitable fungus/mold that occurs on moist seeds.

Better yet, read ALL of Cameron's germinating post.
Better than an encyclopedia!

Barb
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sashaeffer
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Post by sashaeffer » Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:31 am

My mind is always working to figure things out and may have solution for heat in the inside green house. Will let you know if it works (not if it doesn't lol)

Dates you buy at the store will germinate?? What do I do to prep them?

I just ordered some seeds based on what GPenny suggested. California and Mexican Fan palm seeds. Also got my order in for the 6 foxtail and 6 Christmas palm seeds(sold as package and free shipping)
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lucky1
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Post by lucky1 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:21 am

My mind is always working
Must be nice. :booty:
Dates you buy at the store will germinate?? What do I do to prep them?
Eat them, spit out stones.
Keep stones, soak 3 days in warmish water w. 3% hydrogen peroxide 1 part h.p./5 parts water, lengthwise onto soil mix in yoghurt cups, cover with cellophane, keep warm. And Bob's your uncle.

Drumroll...ta da...Phoenix dactylifera "deglet noor" seedlings.
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/southslope/6796732015/" title="DSC05358 by edible_plum, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7008/6796 ... 8a6b_z.jpg" width="480" height="640" alt="DSC05358"></a>

Easy and fast, compared to other seeds that'll have you tearing your hair out waiting.

I like the variety of seed species you've ordered.
Now go and buy an electric germinating mat.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/southslope/2369281879/" title="DSC01201 by edible_plum, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2309/2369 ... 53a5_z.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="DSC01201"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/southslope/2401621328/" title="DSC01257 by edible_plum, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3074/2401 ... 52c7_z.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="DSC01257"></a>

and...there are some 8 foot palms in the corner...over there....on sale! :wink:
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Cameron_z6a_N.S.
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Post by Cameron_z6a_N.S. » Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:39 pm

Hey Scott,

Everyone here has given you good suggestions with Phoenix, Washingtonia, Trachycarpus, etc. All three of these species are relatively fast to germinate, so for these, it shouldn't be necessary to de-lid. However, if you want to try it out before germinating some other types of seeds, these three species would make good practice! :lol:
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sashaeffer
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Post by sashaeffer » Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:47 pm

Can seeds be preserved if you don't use all of them right away? one of my orders is for 200 seeds. I may only want to plant say..25 at first. How can I save the others to plant in a month or two? can I put them in a zip lock bag and put in the fridge? or cool dark area of a cupboard?
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lucky1
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Post by lucky1 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:45 pm

Germination percentages of palms decrease with seed age.
That's why everybody asks sellers are the seeds fresh, i.e. from this year's seed set.

Some seeds even go into a second "dormancy"(a full year) when held over...how long depends on the species.

A month or two would probably be fine, Scott.
But remember they're probably already a month or two old when you receive them.

Palms from seed to 6 feet tall take so long, so everybody usually does 'em all at once to get the process going.
Of 200 seeds try different growing media, more or less perlite, more or less peat moss, baggies vs. cups, etc. etc.
Lightly sandpaper some, look at Cameron's de-lidding technique photos for others, etc.

Cool...200 seeds.
Of what species?

oh...and buy plant labels, lots of 'em.
Or cut apart throw-away old venetian blinds to make your own labels.

Barb
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sashaeffer
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Post by sashaeffer » Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:50 pm

30- California Fan Palm

200-Mexican Fan Palm

6-Foxtail 6-Christmas palm(package deal)
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lucky1
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Post by lucky1 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:04 pm

Excellent...should come up quickly (approx 2 months).
'coz they ain't radishes. :lol:
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sashaeffer
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Post by sashaeffer » Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:03 am

So in reading Camerons thread, different seed types sprout either on one end....or even the middle. Is there always and visible dot or "eye" where that is so I know where to sand?

Glad I'm just starting off with 4 varieties!
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canadianplant
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Post by canadianplant » Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:17 am

Hey scott....

The suggestions washy, trachy and phoenix are great. All 3 of these have germinated for me, in room temp, and no bottom heat (although, both with greatly increase the speed of germination of the phoenix and washy). I would like to add Sabal species. Without heat, mine too 6 months to germinate, but all of the seed I planted germinated!

For me washintonia came up in 3 weeks. Trachys a bit longer. Phoenix dont take long at all.

I would also like to add CHamedorea and Dypsis species. CHamedorea is the genus that the ever popular parlor palm comes from. IT has dozens of great species for indoor (like the cat palm). Ive only tried 1 type of them from seed, and I overwatered the soil, and they rotted. Everything I have read states these are easy to grow from seed.

Dypsis, is the genus where the "areca/butterfly palm" comes from, which used to be sold under "chrysalidocarpus lutescens". Again there are dozens of species that do well indoors, and are rare in cultuvation. Ive grown this from seed, as well as D lanceolata, D arenarum, and the ultra rare D albiforinosa. The D lanceolata germinated during shipment, and are growing great. The D arenarum took a bit of time, but all came up around the same few weeks. I had about 80% germination on both. THe D alboforinosa took about 5 months at about 20% germination rate (keep in mind, I do NOTHING special for palm seeds besides sow em in baggies). I kiled these guys by giving them too much sun. Thats a big deal, becasue these have not been for sale for 4 years on RPS, are excedingly rare in the wild, let alone cultivation and are just gorgeous.
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Cameron_z6a_N.S.
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Post by Cameron_z6a_N.S. » Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:58 pm

Scott, there is not always a visible bump/dot/eye in each species. In certain species like Jubaea, the eyes are very visible. However, for others like Trachycarpus, there is basically no indication.

In my thread you'll be able to see the embryo locations for the three species of seed that you're starting, but when you start a new species and you're unsure where the embryo is located, the best thing to do is just sacrifice one seed and sand it down at all locations, until you determine where the embryo is.
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sashaeffer
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Post by sashaeffer » Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:05 pm

Which species isn't there a example of that I am getting, and where is the embryo?
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