Beginning the germination process!

[Cameron_z6a_N.S.]

I'm now starting to prepare for (hopefully) germinating quite a variety of seeds. I have somewhere around 100 different species of seed that I'll try to germinate, but I'm going to start with the seeds which I have the most of. Later on, I'll try to germinate the rest.

I'll try to document the process as best as I can (ex. numbers of seed, days to first signs of germination, temp/soil, etc) throughout the coming months (or years ), and hopefully this post can serve as a reference for anyone else trying to germinate the same species! I'll take some pics with my BB.

I've began converting my computer room into a bit of a "germination room". Many of the seeds require heat in order to grow (sabals, etc). I looked into germination mats, but it would cost hundreds of dollars to cover a 6' x 6' area. I've ordered 24' of Flexwatt heat tape (the 11" width), as well as some dimmer switches to attach to the tape. The dimmer switches control the amount of power that goes into the heat tape, therefore controlling the temps. I'm going to cut the tape to size, lay it on the floor, and use it as a germination area.

I'm also going to be trying out a product called Nitrozyme, which has been recommended by many palm websites for increased germination. To try to get a comparison of the product vs. nothing, I'll have a seperate space where I'll apply Nitrozyme to some seeds, and nothing to others. I'll check which ones germinate first, and if there seems to be any increased growth due to the product. I only have a 100 ml bottle, so I'll have to make it last!

In the next post, I'll list which seeds I'll be trying first. Hopefully I'll start sowing them sometime next week!

Cameron.

[TimMAz6]

Keep us posted Cameron.

I purchased a seed germination 'thesis' prepared by a student at Penn State University. It's like 3/4" thick and describes how to germinate all the different species of plants (not all but lots). If you want me to look any up for you let me know.

[Cameron_z6a_N.S.]

Cacti/Succulents/etc:

Agave havardiana - approx. 500 seeds
Agave montana - approx. 500 seeds
Agave ovatifolia - approx. 100 seeds
Agave parryi ssp. parryi - approx. 500 seeds
Aloe ecklonis - approx. 500 seeds
Aloe polyphylla - approx. 100 seeds
Aloe reitzii - approx. 100 seeds
Maihuenia poeppigii - approx. 500 seeds
Opuntia humifusa - approx. 100 seeds
Yucca rostrata - approx. 500 seeds

[lucky1]

Cameron, you'll soon have to enter your computer room with a sky-hook, and post hanging upside down.
And then all the live plants from the group order will arrive too!
(I say "live" to distinguish from "seed", versus "live" to distinguish from "dead").

You're quite right about the germinating mats, they're expensive for the square inches you get.
Frankly not impressed with the temperature, certainly not warm enough for palms except for maybe Trachies and Chamaerops.
Maybe the wattage dims with age (like people )

Nice desert selection!

Keep the camera batteries charged, please.

Tim, does that book have any tips for Pritchardia hillebrandii palm seed? do seeds go dormant if they dry out?

Barb

[Cameron_z6a_N.S.]

Misc:

Albizia julibrissin - approx. 500 seeds
Berberis montana - approx. 250 seeds
Bletilla striata - approx. 1000 seeds
Callistemon pityoides - approx. 2000 seeds
Cordyline australis - approx. 100 seeds
Eucalyptus archerii - approx. 1500 seeds
Eucalyptus crenulata - approx. 12 500 seeds
Eucalyptus neglecta - approx. 650 seeds
Eucalyptus pauciflora ssp. debeuzevillei - approx. 1500 seeds
Eucalyptus pauciflora ssp. niphophila - approx. 500 seeds
Eucalyptus perriniana - approx. 2500 seeds
Embothrium coccineum - approx. 250 seeds
Fuchsia magellanica - approx. 250 seeds
Gaultheria phillyreifolia - approx. 250 seeds
Paulownia tormentosa - approx. 500 seeds
Phyllostachys pubescens - approx. 1000 seeds
Protea subvestita - approx. 500 seeds
Puya berteroniana - approx. 500 seeds
Puya chilensis - approx. 250 seeds
Puya coerulea var. monteroana - approx. 250 seeds

[Cameron_z6a_N.S.]

Palms/Cycads/Bananas:

Butia eriospatha - approx. 500 seeds
Chamaerops humilis var. cerifera - approx. 100 seeds
Dioon edule - approx. 100 seeds
Hyophorbe lagenicaulis - approx. 100 seeds
Jubaea chilensis - approx. 500 seeds
Musa sikkimensis - approx. 500 seeds
Nannorrhops ritchiana var. Kashmir - approx. 500 seeds
Phoenix loureiroi var. humilis - approx. 100 seeds
Phoenix theophrastii - approx. 100 seeds
Rhapidophyllum hystrix - approx. 100 seeds
Sabal minor - approx. 1000 seeds
Sabal minor "Cape Hatteras" - approx. 1000 seeds
Sabal minor "McCurtain" - approx. 100 seeds
Sabal minor var. Louisiana - approx. 1500 seeds
Trachycarpus fortunei (normal, Nova, Hayes Stiffie, Tesan, etc) - approx. 2500 seeds
Trithrinax campestris - approx. 100 seeds

[Cameron_z6a_N.S.]

Thanks Tim and Barb!

[lucky1]

Surprised you selected Dioon edule over Dioon Spinulosum, unless you've had orders for it.

I've got both and IMO the spinulosum wins hands down, does great indoors too (probably all year long, though mine's outdoors all summer in shade).
Great long 3-foot waxy bluish fronds (albeit with sharp points...ouch).

My D. edule is 1/20th the size of the other one, and they're the same age!

Barb

[Cameron_z6a_N.S.]

Surprised you selected Dioon edule over Dioon Spinulosum

The seeds were cheaper

[hardyjim]

Is that all?

[canadianplant]

I thought I was going to be busy..........

I got 200 Paulownia seeds to sprout too (Tormentosa??? Probably what the Americans call it when it shows up enmasse on their barren feilds ) How are you going about it? Most of the sites ive seen said to germinate them in their permanent position.

Keep us posted dude

[Cameron_z6a_N.S.]

I've been wondering about the Paulownia too lol. I think I will germinate them in a group pot, and then once they're around 3" tall, either plant or sell them right away They grow so quickly, so I don't want to keep them pot-bound any longer then I have to !

[canadianplant]

Sounds similar to what ive read up on eucalyptus germination......

The main way ive found, is to mix the seeds with dehydrated potato, and distribute that on the soil. My thinking, is that the potato flakes will rehydrate, and rot. Im assuming the method to the madness, is to include filler to distribute the seeds more evenly. Other then that, im playing it by ear......

[Cameron_z6a_N.S.]

Yeah, with eucs especially if you don't plant them out quickly, their roots won't develop properly, and the trees will grow to be stunted!

[Cameron_z6a_N.S.]

Here are some plants that I've germinated within the past month or so:

Unknown plumeria on the left and in the middle, plumeria "Rubra" on the right:


Closer shot of an unknown plumeria:


Unknown canna:


T. fortunei "Chusan" from Jim:


Macadamia:


Hylocereus undatus (these need to be divided!):


Araucaria araucana:


Not pictured (but recently germinated):

Canna "Red Stripe"
Avacado
T. fortunei "Tesan"
Eucs
Callistemon pityoides
Phoenix dactylifera
Opuntia ficus-indica
Poncirus trifoliata "Flying Dragon"
Thomasville citrangequat
Changshu kumquat
Yuzange
and a few types of tree fern

Cameron

[canadianplant]

This is the best way to beat out winter. Fill your house with seedlings

Is the unknown Canna seed from your plant? Ive got about 10 or so I have to try this year.

How did you start the macadamia? Shelled or unshelled nut? Very nice plant too..

Ive been waiting for 3 months for my avacado pits to sprout. The outter skin has some cracks, thats about it. LOL

Great success so far

[lucky1]

Congrats Cameron!

The Chusan seedlings are so large already, very well grown!
And that Araucaria are going to want their own pots soon!
Good job on it all

[Cameron_z6a_N.S.]

Thanks guys!

Canadianplant, the canna seeds are from a friend in Tennessee, and he harvested them from his own plants. They germinated so easily, I'm sure you'll have close to a 100% germinatio ratio! I got the macadamia from ebay, I think they were unshelled. Do you have your avacado planted in soil or water?

[canadianplant]

I have the avacado pits suspended in a class of water. So far they havnt worked. So im going to grab some more, and half bury them in soil, in a pot, and put that all in a bag.

[hardyjim]

Here are some plants that I've germinated within the past month or so:

Unknown plumeria on the left and in the middle, plumeria "Rubra" on the right:


Closer shot of an unknown plumeria:


Unknown canna:


T. fortunei "Chusan" from Jim:


Macadamia:


Hylocereus undatus (these need to be divided!):


Araucaria araucana:


Not pictured (but recently germinated):

Canna "Red Stripe"
Avacado
T. fortunei "Tesan"
Eucs
Callistemon pityoides
Phoenix dactylifera
Opuntia ficus-indica
Poncirus trifoliata "Flying Dragon"
Thomasville citrangequat
Changshu kumquat
Yuzange
and a few types of tree fern

Cameron

Those Trachys look great -they should be as pure of Fortunei as you can get
since they are from (I believe) a natural population in China.

Have any of the other Trachy seeds come up?

[canadianplant]

Sorry.... thanks for the info on the Canna. That is very good to know..

Also, you asked a few days ago ( I keep forgetting to answer you) im 25 LOL

[Cameron_z6a_N.S.]

Canadianplant, I did the same thing with the avacado pits. I just stuck three toothpicks into them, and kept them in a glass of water. I've had a couple that didn't work for me as well!

Jim, earlier this year I had a large batch of the Tesan, Chusan, and the Bulgarian seeds all come up. I had them in bags, and left the bags in a sunny window... 2 days later and they were all burnt to a crisp Right now I've got some more Tesan coming up.

[hardyjim]

Any Bulgarian seeds left?

[Cameron_z6a_N.S.]

Jim, I don't have any Bulgarian seeds left. I was supposed to get 1000-2000 from Kiril this year, but he had a smaller seed harvest than usual, so it didn't work out!

[canadianplant]

Cameron

Whats the method you use to germinate tree ferns?? How long did it take?

[Cameron_z6a_N.S.]

Canadianplant, I use 100% peat and cover it in boiling water. I wring out the water, and let it cool down a little. Then, I try to spread the spores evenly over the surface. TF spores are like dust, and as they develop, they're susceptible to mold, so I use the boiling water to try to kill all germs.

I keep them in the ziploc containers, not the bags. The main reason I do that is because I find with the bags the soil can shift a little bit, and since the tf spores are so tiny, I don't want them to move at all! I saw the first signs of germination after about a month, and the species was Dicksonia squarrosa.

I'm still waiting on 5 or 6 other types. The type I'm most hopeful about is Lophosoria quadripinnata, which is hardy to about -15 C, so it could probably make it here with minimal protection!

This website has been very helpful. It gives a step-by-step guide from harvesting spore, all the way to planting out the ferns: http://www.thefernhouse.moonfruit.com/# ... 4524570707

[Cameron_z6a_N.S.]

I just wanted to make an update about a germination test that I tried out.

I used the "de-lidding" process, and it seems to be working great so far! Last night, I took 2 Sabal minor var. Louisiana seeds out for the test. I used sandpaper on one seed until I could see the embryo, and the other I left as is. I put both seeds in warm water, changing the water 2 or 3 times over a 24 hour period.

Well, I can already see germination on the de-lidded seed, and it's only been 1 day!! My BB doesn't have the quality to capture the small size of the germinating seed, so I'll have to wait a few days before I can post a pic of both seeds, side by side.

If the root continues to grow over the next couple of days, I'll be using the de-lidding method for the majority of the seeds.

Cameron.

[lucky1]

Congrats on the de-lidding success Cameron.
I've tried it also with sandpaper on seeds of Bizzie, Copernicia, Nannorhops, Pritchardia, all with zero results.

The biggest Q for me is WHERE the embryo would emerge (i.e. where to de-lid).
It's easy on seeds like Foxtails etc. where the embryo emerges at the end the fruit was attached, opposite the sharp point.

But on Trachies (even Chamaerops humilis), the embryo emerges somewhere towards the center of the seed.
Can't figure out where on the seed to de-lid: end, middle, what side?
Not much avail on the internet for the species I've attempted.

Read an interesting pdf file where for thousands of seeds, a six-second scarification in a mechanical scarifier with sandpaper did the job electrically.
You'll likely wish you had one for all your seeds Cameron.

I've just received a bunch of Trachy seeds, so I'm at it again.
Anybody know if Trachy seeds need light to germinate?

Looking forward to those pictures Cameron.

Barb

[Cameron_z6a_N.S.]

I got lucky for the sabal minor seeds, the end that I started at was the end of the embryo. I tried a Jubaea, and started at the wrong end! For some that I'm not really sure about, I'm just going to go for somewhere in the middle. I remember on the PalmTalk thread there was a pic of a needle palm seed germinating from the middle. There's really not that much info out there about the technique!

[Cameron_z6a_N.S.]

I've now had a Jubaea seed pop within about 6 hours of me de-lidding it (versus the up to 1 year if I planted it in the ground ), so I have a feeling that this method will work very well!

[gpenny]

Cameron
Can you post a picture of where you delidded the Jubaea seeds? I've got some you sent me and would like to try. Thanks!

[hardyjim]

Jim, I don't have any Bulgarian seeds left. I was supposed to get 1000-2000 from Kiril this year, but he had a smaller seed harvest than usual, so it didn't work out!

Wish I would have known earlier,I just bagged up my last 100 Bulgarian Trachy seeds for sprouting.

I mean Garry sent me like 400 seeds from China so why not plant another 100



BTW


I checked my little Naini Tal and Bulgarian(sawed off the styrofoam covers to have a look)
they are both perfect-tough little buggers!

[Dean W.]

Good luck with your seeds. Sounds like you are growing lots.

[canadianplant]

Jim - Grats on the palms !

[Cameron_z6a_N.S.]

Thanks everyone!

Gpenny, I'll try to post some pics for a kind of "tutorial" later today. I have another Jubaea seed that's just beginning to emerge after about 12 hours, so they're not all super fast like the first one.

Jim, good luck with all of the fortunei!

[lucky1]

So for the Jubaea, I suppose you de-lidded both ends to get at least one end correct? Hard to figure out.
Congrats on that...6 and 12 hours!
That's about my patience level.

Yes, on the de-lidding resource of where to de-lid different types of seeds.

This seems like the perfect posting to do that, Cameron.

Maybe post "before" and "after" de-lidding pics with species. Recommend pics of successes only so we don't end up looking at pics that didn't work.
That'd be really helpful.

Barb

[Cameron_z6a_N.S.]

Here are 2 Jubaea seeds:


Here's one after I cracked the outer shell (endocarp?, you need to be very careful when doing this. I've been using a hammer and have lost a couple this way. if you use a vice or a walnut cracker, it would probably be safer):


You can see a small point on the seed above, that's where the embryo is. Here's a closer shot from above:


You will want to sand down this area just until you can see the embryo. Don't actually sand into the embryo, as this will damage it. You can see the small bit of white in the middle:


Here's a seed that took around 12 hours to germinate. It's barely out, and is hard to see in the pic, but it's growing:


As for the first seed that popped within 6 hours: When I was removing the outer shell, I cracked a bit of the actual seed by accident. It didn't seem to be having an effect on the germination at first, but as the seed soaked up more water and the embryo grew, the shell began to split all around the crack. Eventually, the gap became so large, that the embryo just floated out of the seed! The second seed isn't cracked though, and it's going great so far!

[lucky1]

Chamaerops humilis. After 5 weeks in a community pot with no sign of germination, used sandpaper on the end, and re-soaked. After a week in water, changing water daily, here it is: De-lidding at the seed END was the wrong place.

<img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5214/543 ... cfca04.jpg" width="375" height="500" alt="DSC04434" />

Picture shows seed still wet from soaking.
Barb

[Cameron_z6a_N.S.]

I decided to "sacrifice" a few seeds of each species so that I (as well as everyone who wants to try the de-lidding method) can figure out the position of the embryo in different seeds. Pics will follow.

Good work, Barb!

[Cameron_z6a_N.S.]

Trachycarpus fortunei:
The embryo position would likely be the same for the entire genus.

The seeds are shaped like kidney beans/hearts/whatever you want to call them:


The embryo is located on the opposite side of the indented part of the seed. See the white dot: