Ugghh.... unboxing has begun...

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Sat Mar 29, 2014 3:57 pm

Well, I got the itch to take one box off today. Tonight we're going to hit a low of 20, hope that doesn't stress the tree. Needless to say, I'm bumming after two years of great overwintering. I'm guessing my box was too big for the two strands of c9's I had in there. This is my biggest tree. Hopefully I'll get tons of new growth out of it this year so I can pull off these freezer burned fronds.

<a href="http://s1204.photobucket.com/user/wheel ... u.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb4 ... dceuvu.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 5DFB058F-302B-460D-BC64-D12F70748E98_zpse1dceuvu.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1204.photobucket.com/user/wheel ... e.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb4 ... jiobhe.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 82C23473-0C16-494D-B099-274A5FECE9DF_zpstrjiobhe.jpg"/></a>

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Sun Mar 30, 2014 4:49 am

Can't you just glue some 4x8 sheets in insulation to the insides of the box? I know Coconut mike just uses insulation by itself in his videos.

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:05 am

Well for the past three years I had no issues with simple wood boxes. I think a few things led to this result. I found out one of my strands of lights fuse blew so I had one of my largest boxes (around 10 foot) with only one strand of lights working. Another thing is this box is a stand alone with the west side being totally exposed to the wind, my other four are grouped around a deck/pergola set up and I think the combination of that and slightly smaller boxes will look nicer once I open them up.

I am going to be investigating heat tape in the coming year as well. Whether I wrap with the tape and do some lights I'll have to decide. All I know is my electric bill this winter was a tad on the high side.

I don't think I'd have the die off of the foliage if I had them wrapped with heat tape. I also don't think the trunk was bothered by the cold as it's a pretty hardy tree (8-9 inch diameter trunk).

For those that weren't following Michigan weather this winter, it was one of the coldest and snowiest we've had in 30 plus years. Typically we'll get some snow and then a thaw and cycle that a few times over a winter, but from December through march it froze and stayed that way the entire time... just no breaks at all. Couple that with this is the first winter my big trees experienced and I'll be surprised if I don't see the same result on the other two.

Lastly, as for looking at doing insulation inside the boxes... I already have my hands full with storing all the wood for the boxes, adding insulation panels inside would complicate storage and building every year and get quite expensive. I'm in an area that sees very high winds which is why I've built some pretty heavy duty boxes. I've thought about doing 2 inch insulation boxes but I think the winds would just shred them over the course of a winter.

I've definitely got some work ahead of me to decide how I will progress each fall.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sun Mar 30, 2014 10:02 am

Doug, the box wasn't too big.
But there should be insulation inside.
Plywood alone isn't perfect for winter, especially if joints aren't caulked, etc.

Styrofoam comes in panels in various thicknesses.
You could measure and cut styro to fit each assembled box panel.
An inch of styro would've meant all the difference in the world unless you've got winds whipping through the corners.

Barb

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:33 pm

lucky1 wrote:Doug, the box wasn't too big.
But there should be insulation inside.
Plywood alone isn't perfect for winter, especially if joints aren't caulked, etc.

Styrofoam comes in panels in various thicknesses.
You could measure and cut styro to fit each assembled box panel.
An inch of styro would've meant all the difference in the world unless you've got winds whipping through the corners.

Barb

Hey barb
I've never had an issue the past few years with my first two palms doing this way. I will admit after the first winter I did purposely leave them somewhat porous to help them hardy up and keep the mold at bay that I had the first year.

I'll think about doing styrofoam boxes on the big boys as they should be able to load bear the the winds that come through my way.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:45 pm

Doug, did you have a remote thermometer inside there?
It'd be good to know what the minimum was in the box.

Yeah, mold is awful, but it can be managed to some degree.
My Washy fronds that get black mold are simply cut off in spring, didn't seem to hurt either of them.

Barb

kspalmguy · Post by **kspalmguy** » Sun Mar 30, 2014 5:35 pm

Dang:( Sorry your palms took a hit...wishing you luck! Looks like some healthy green on some of those fronds, my guess is they'll be good as new soon:)

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:14 pm

lucky1 wrote:Doug, did you have a remote thermometer inside there?
It'd be good to know what the minimum was in the box.

Yeah, mold is awful, but it can be managed to some degree.
My Washy fronds that get black mold are simply cut off in spring, didn't seem to hurt either of them.

Barb

I did have a temp sensor in there, but it stopped registering once I closed up the box for the winter. This box is the farthest away from the back of my house, my guess is it was just out of range. This was the one I most wanted to monitor too because of it's size and location exposed.

Next winter will be different for me with this one that's for sure.

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:16 pm

kspalmguy wrote:Dang:( Sorry your palms took a hit...wishing you luck! Looks like some healthy green on some of those fronds, my guess is they'll be good as new soon:)

There is still some green on them and the spears pushing out look good too yet, heck for all I know those may have pushed out while in the box... If anything, it certainly got a taste for what it's life will be like and will have hardied up a bit I hope. If my biggest issue is finding a way to keep the foliage green I think I'll be good in the long run.

TimMAz6 · Post by **TimMAz6** » Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:19 pm

keep us updated on that Trachy......I hope it survives.

kspalmguy · Post by **kspalmguy** » Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:47 pm

wheelman1976 wrote:
kspalmguy wrote:Dang:( Sorry your palms took a hit...wishing you luck! Looks like some healthy green on some of those fronds, my guess is they'll be good as new soon:)
There is still some green on them and the spears pushing out look good too yet, heck for all I know those may have pushed out while in the box... If anything, it certainly got a taste for what it's life will be like and will have hardied up a bit I hope. If my biggest issue is finding a way to keep the foliage green I think I'll be good in the long run.

Pushing spears is a very good sign! Keep us updated:)

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:13 pm

Weather here is downright miserable, windchills to the low 20/teens, winds in the 20mph range and temps down to just below freezing. Really wish I left that box on now in hindsight. This winter will just not end where I'm at....

The fronds are looking quite worse for wear and even the spears are getting some browning on them. I put another strand of lights on it and wrapped it in a tarp for the evening to keep the rain/snow out of the crown area. This rain mixed with temps going down to to the hight 20s is the worst.

905palms · Post by **905palms** » Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:37 am

wheelman1976 wrote:
The fronds are looking quite worse for wear and even the spears are getting some browning on them. I put another strand of lights on it and wrapped it in a tarp for the evening to keep the rain/snow out of the crown area. This rain mixed with temps going down to to the hight 20s is the worst.

You did good by re-wrapping. Once it warms slightly towards the end of the week, give it a shot of fungicide. It seems like it's always the transitional temps that can wreek havoc on a palms, but once the low's are above 35, it'll be fine. It's really the low's that we have to be concerned about.

chadec · Post by **chadec** » Sat Apr 05, 2014 4:17 pm

Keep an eye on it, my fronds held tight till this week. We hit 80F and all Hell broke loose. All of a sudden I have another pindo, chammy, and 3 trachies with spear pull.

Good luck,

wxman · Post by **wxman** » Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:25 pm

Sorry man. Sucks that it fried up. Living across the pond from you, I really think you should get styrofoam in there somehow. It will help lower your electric bill and also insulate the palm better. I can even see a big hole where the cord comes in. I bet your palm saw extended periods of temps below 10 during the worst of our winter.

I hope it grows out of this fast for you.

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:44 pm

wxman wrote:Sorry man. Sucks that it fried up. Living across the pond from you, I really think you should get styrofoam in there somehow. It will help lower your electric bill and also insulate the palm better. I can even see a big hole where the cord comes in. I bet your palm saw extended periods of temps below 10 during the worst of our winter.

I hope it grows out of this fast for you.

I had the hole for the cord covered up. This is the biggest one I have so I may consider doing beny's method next winter. This box was a bear to build and it's only going to get worse.

wxman · Post by **wxman** » Sat Apr 05, 2014 7:03 pm

wheelman1976 wrote:
wxman wrote:Sorry man. Sucks that it fried up. Living across the pond from you, I really think you should get styrofoam in there somehow. It will help lower your electric bill and also insulate the palm better. I can even see a big hole where the cord comes in. I bet your palm saw extended periods of temps below 10 during the worst of our winter.

I hope it grows out of this fast for you.
I had the hole for the cord covered up. This is the biggest one I have so I may consider doing beny's method next winter. This box was a bear to build and it's only going to get worse.

I feel your pain. Mine is 10' tall and next year will likely need a 12' tall box. I'm sticking with the box method forever even if that means renting scaffolding. It comes out in the spring pristine and that's what I desire.

905palms · Post by **905palms** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 4:37 am

wxman wrote:
I feel your pain. Mine is 10' tall and next year will likely need a 12' tall box. I'm sticking with the box method forever even if that means renting scaffolding. It comes out in the spring pristine and that's what I desire.

My Sabal P, was in a 16' box this year and worth it, however you need an extra person for sure to help. I may try Beny's new technique this fall (yeah shoot me for saying that

) with some smaller palms. ' Scaffolding'.. lol love it!

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:19 pm

So I'm seeing rain and a low of 27 early next week in my 10 day.... should I just leave the boxes that are in place up to get through that or roll with it? I just don't want to get water in the crowns and deal with freezing temps. Thoughts?

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:10 pm

I'd leave boxes on, to be safe at those temps, especially with moisture.

Check your long range.

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Tue May 13, 2014 4:26 pm

Here's some close ups of the one that took a big hit this year. It's putting out it's thing a ma jigs, whatever they're called!
<a href="http://s1204.photobucket.com/user/wheel ... 6.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb4 ... ecbdb6.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 9A88631A-FCB8-49D1-996E-2BEBCBEC9169_zpshpecbdb6.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1204.photobucket.com/user/wheel ... f.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb4 ... si0nqf.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 45E2BAF6-035A-4E2F-B047-FDFFCA8ADA2A_zpsorsi0nqf.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1204.photobucket.com/user/wheel ... r.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb4 ... kdza6r.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 9E310832-FA8B-4615-B75A-E7AF4828797B_zpsfbkdza6r.jpg"/></a>

The bigger of my two original palms came out great!
<a href="http://s1204.photobucket.com/user/wheel ... b.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb4 ... irvz3b.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 48657F5D-CA30-49CF-85CF-9ECB02065C04_zpsl1irvz3b.jpg"/></a>

This one had a fair amount of burn but still quite green on this side.
<a href="http://s1204.photobucket.com/user/wheel ... i.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb4 ... ardnzi.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo B28FB273-D38F-488D-BFA9-C71C4C01F2FD_zpsycardnzi.jpg"/></a>

Smallest also came out good.
<a href="http://s1204.photobucket.com/user/wheel ... r.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb4 ... 5dn8vr.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 485505BA-B5E3-47B2-8562-721549FAE08B_zpssf5dn8vr.jpg"/></a>

This other one came out decent as well.
<a href="http://s1204.photobucket.com/user/wheel ... h.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb4 ... 6mxzgh.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 9A9FD9CB-827C-48D0-9045-2912ABE3660C_zps2h6mxzgh.jpg"/></a>

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue May 13, 2014 5:55 pm

Doug, at least the big one will make it, despite taking a huge hit.
The thingamajigs are inflorescence

Good job overall.
Barb

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Tue May 13, 2014 6:17 pm

At what point will I be able to tell if I can get seeds?

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu May 15, 2014 1:21 pm

Doug,
IF it's a female, it'll develop seeds, they resemble small grapes...if they're pollinated by a nearby male flower.
If it's a male (the pollen bearer), they just shrivel up and die...nada happens.

Barb

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Thu May 15, 2014 6:28 pm

Can you help in the pollination in any way?

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu May 15, 2014 6:43 pm

Me personally, no.

If you have a male (pollen) at the same time as a female is in flower, cut off the male branch and shake it gently over the female blossom.
Otherwise nope.
Takes a male and female.
Just like in life.
Sort of.

Barb

bananieru · Post by **bananieru** » Fri May 16, 2014 3:10 am

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Sat May 17, 2014 6:36 pm

lucky1 wrote:Me personally, no.

If you have a male (pollen) at the same time as a female is in flower, cut off the male branch and shake it gently over the female blossom.
Otherwise nope.
Takes a male and female.
Just like in life.
Sort of.

Barb

no comment....

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Wed May 21, 2014 7:28 pm

Gave the big boy a hair cut tonight to get rid of all those dead fronds... Gotta say the inflorescence are moving faster than the spears sticking out.

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Fri May 30, 2014 2:30 pm

Inflorescence coming out quickly. One other palm is putting out one shoot as well.

<a href="http://s1204.photobucket.com/user/wheel ... 2.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb4 ... yh0sh2.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 089BAF25-DD2E-4FAA-AC3F-705E0016CA81_zpselyh0sh2.jpg"/></a>

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Fri May 30, 2014 6:44 pm

The other tree
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lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat May 31, 2014 10:51 am

Still a bit early to tell.
My guess is male.

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:34 pm

lucky1 wrote:Still a bit early to tell.
My guess is male.

Which one? I posted two different trees.

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 2:56 pm

Here's where the first one is at as of yesterday. Can you tell by what the inflorescence looks like if it's male or female?

<a href="http://s1204.photobucket.com/user/wheel ... t.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb4 ... nnqzxt.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 1CA1A43B-23AA-42EB-B4FD-0A5073C581EB_zps8onnqzxt.jpg"/></a>

Zabola · Post by **Zabola** » Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:00 am

when you shake those flowers if you see polen, like dust in the air its a male..

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:50 pm

Well I went out there tonight and shook my tree and got what appeared to be some powder off of it, so it appears that that one is a male. I don't know if this will work but I went over to the other tree and tried to sprinkle as much powder as I could on that one's inflorescence. It's not as developed yet but hopefully I'll know soon what sex that one is. Fingers crossed I get seeds!

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:32 pm

Agree with Max, if you shake pollen out of it, it's a male.
Maybe hang the male pollen flower a few inches above the other ones that you hope are female.
The wind will drop the pollen onto the female when it's receptive, if it's a female.

Barb

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:11 pm

The other tree's inflorescence is to the point where I could shake pollen out of it as well so it appears I have two males at this point.... Kinda sucks, was hoping to get some seeds this year! Hopefully my third big one next year will put out some inflorescence and it's female. I think my two smaller trees have 2-3 years before I'll see any from them.

Zabola · Post by **Zabola** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:52 am

probably both males but wait and see..

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:41 am

two males at this point.... Kinda sucks

Unlike school dances, with palms it seems there are lots more males than females.

PalmsNorth.com

Ugghh.... unboxing has begun...

Ugghh.... unboxing has begun...

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