Die back palm experiment.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:22 pm

Could have sworn I had a post started but can't find it to add this springs pictures. Created a album in Facebook so here is link to that album of pictures of last fall just before cutting down and covering with bags of mulch I had bought on sale. Will see in weeks to come if anything comes back as ground warms up.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 960ff432c7

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:28 pm

Good test subjects.

Let's see what happens as the heat hits.

Barb

sidpook · Post by **sidpook** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:53 am

Very cool. I'd love to put my huge Chinese fans in the ground rather than drag them up to the thrid floor office every year, UGH! They are monsters.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:56 am

Well, we'll see if they do come back and if they do how much growth they will get. Both the Cat palms($2 each) and the Chinese Fan($11.98) were cheap enough to use to find out.

TimMAz6 · Post by **TimMAz6** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:44 am

keep us updated on their progress.

miketropic · Post by **miketropic** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:15 pm

very interesting. I usually find majestys half dead or dieing at lowes and use them as annuals if these come back or lived through could be a few more I plant out..my chinses fan is a monster would be nice to leave it outside in winter as well.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:17 pm

Last one uncovered tonight. A Cat Palm that I didn't cut back when covered by mulch and semi clear plastic barrel. The spot this Cat palm is in is 90% shade so will be really surprised if it comes back and looks like anything. Will keep you all posted.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Tue May 28, 2013 2:55 pm

May 28th 2013

I think FINALLY I don't have to worry about anymore snow and cold, although we did have a last gasp earlier this month.

EVERYTHING plant wise is still weeks behind here in the Omaha area, so not surprised to finally see some activity from a couple palms I planted in the ground last year coming back.

As a reminder, last spring/summer/fall was tough on all plants from the sever heat and lack of normal rain so the 2 Cat Palms and 2 Chinese Fan Palms didn't look their best all year.

Winter protection was only 3 bags of mulch each layered over the top after cutting palms down almost to ground level, although one Cat palm had a semi transparent barrel over it with mulch covering the bottom.

Neither one of the Cat Palms came back at all.....not overly surprised.

Both of my Chinese Fan Palms are just now showing signs of life by pushing more up out of the ground. I know the season won't be long enough to where they will look anything like when I got them but it showed me that species CAN over winter and if we would have had a normal summer last year and winter/spring this year they would have been much further along.

I will post current pics and report again towards the end of summer.

Pic below is where Cat palm was planted last year but didn't come back, so replaced with a $2 special replacement Cat Palm again this year.

Two pics of SE corner of house where Chinese Fan Palm was over wintered and coming back...slowly

Pics of West facing Chinese Fan Palm was planted and also coming back.

Last pic is showing a Queen Palm I planted where Cat palm was over wintered. I won't leave Queen in the ground over the winter. As a matter of fact, it's still in it's grow pot just sitting in the ground.

What did I learn from all of this ? Humidity was my number 1 enemy, not the cold. Wetness and fungus damage was a issue on any of my palms that I over wintered. For the unheated Chinese Fan Palms in the ground this coming Winter? I will put a thick base of straw down first before stacking the bags of mulch over the top which I'm sure will help.

miketropic · Post by **miketropic** » Tue May 28, 2013 5:49 pm

so what was the coldest temps and how long did you have them for the winter? seems the chinese fan can take some cold and moves faster than most after winter.

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Tue May 28, 2013 6:33 pm

YEah, realistically that isnt to bad at all. The midwest did have a long spring (So did we up here in N ontario) and a bit of a wet one so far from what ive seen, not to mention a fairly cold winter. At least you have an idea of how well they can take what would be a very bad winter. I hope with some straw and some luck weather wise they can take off.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Tue May 28, 2013 7:20 pm

We had some sub zero temps, but didn't have a lot of snow until mid/late spring. Again, condensation caused a lot of fungal damage, and when I removed the bags of mulch in late March..assuming we were done with snow like in most years, we would have a couple of warm sunny days followed by cold, cloudy days with snow thrown in that got on the exposed plants. I may have lost two of my 3 Needle palms as a result (the one that is fine I bought and planted in the spring, while the other two were year end closeouts I planted in August, but suffered a lot of damage)

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:20 am

I wish they were larger, but in reality just glad they made it through the winter with just bags of mulch on top of them for protection and the cold wet spring we had held back growth as well. One season hardier, I'm sure they will be further along this time next year.

taken 7.9.13 Close up shot and standing back a few feet. Chinese Fan Palms

wxman · Post by **wxman** » Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:46 am

You think they will come back again next year or go into decline?

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:55 am

Oh, I think they will come back next year even better. Going to over winter them a bit different so they don't have to battle the moisture and fungus issues they had to this year and no way could we possibly have a another crappy spring lke we did this year.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:37 am

Quite the experiment, Scott.
Would've thought there'd be more damage.

Congrats on the good siting.
That could've been the clincher.

Barb

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:44 am

Location was key. The one on the SE corner gets quite a bit more sun than the one that faces the West. I'll put a bed of straw down over them when I cut them back when frosts get fronds, then cover with mulch bags again.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Sun Jan 19, 2014 3:24 pm

Mid January 2014 abnormally nice day here today so took tote off of a Chinese Fan Palm that is going through it's 2nd winter. This time with just a clear tote over the top and christmas lights. Already see some new growth from this palm. Last year I just used 3 bags of mulch to cover crown and it suffered from fungus, but still came back although no where near what it was when I planted it. Having snows all the way to early May here really set it back. Hopefully this year will be different.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:13 am

Scott,

Thank goodness for that little spear coming.

It probably took a beating at that first blast when the forecast was wrong.

3 bags of mulch to cover crown and it suffered from fungus

Yeah, same thing with my Washies after last winter.
Will never do that again despite the good insulation value from mulch bags...the produced way too much moisture inside.
But the fungus just seemed to peel off in spring winds thankfully.

Good luck with it.

Barb

miketropic · Post by **miketropic** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:09 pm

I have one of these in a pot out back with a trash bag over top of it..if that thing puts out a new spear after our cold weather this year I will treat it so special from now on but I really doubt it made it in the pot

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:14 pm

I happen to have (what used to be) large Chinese Fan Palm in a large pot. Got it LONG before I knew jack about palms..yet it still lived.

Anyway, it too was left outside when we hit +9F for one night. Fronds that were up in the air fried but spears poking through the bottom are still alive and green. Pot is in garage with rest of semi cold hardy palms. Will take a LONG time to get back to it's formal glory but I'm amazed how cold hardy it is.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:51 am

Nice couple of days coming up so took clear totes off some in the ground palms specifically the 3 Chinese fan palms I've had in the ground now for 2 winters.

Last year protection was simply cut to ground level, and I stacked 3 bags of mulch over the top. No heat. 2013 was the worst spring in years as far as temps, and off/on snows here until the first week of May(first time ever here) Fungus was the main issue, and with the cold damp spring they didn't look the best but still came back.

This past fall I didn't cut back since they never really had a chance to grow much with the season cut 2 months short, but this time I layed a string of C7 christmas lights around the base, and simply covered the palm with a semi clear storage tote and set a brick on the top. Much to my delight today in taking the totes off of the 3, the palm that faces the SE and gets a lot of sun anyway is already growing! Pic shows green, and it was mid/late May last year before I had even that much growth. Also needless to say no fungus issues either. Hopefully this year it will gain some height, and with two years now in the ground should be more healthy and robust after all.

905palms · Post by **905palms** » Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:10 am

That's awesome Scott! Looks real nice and green. I may experiment with one of those this spring.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:33 pm

Keep an eye out, around here nice sized 3/4 foot ones can be found for around $13 on up so easy on the wallet when it comes to experimentation.

kspalmguy · Post by **kspalmguy** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:55 pm

Hmmm...interesting! And thanks for sharing! I'm gonna try a Ravenea down here in zone 6b...I know the thing probably doesn't even have a chance, but it was $15 at Lowe's in Wichita, and I just had to pick it up. I figure if I build some kind of insulated structure around it, it might just have a chance.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:57 pm

A Majesty Palm? typically those things start to die as soon as you get them home. I have known people to buy them because they are cheap and plant them as an annual plant in the yard.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:23 pm

Saw your post in Palmtalk....One palm you might want to try is a Queen. Not to leave in the ground all year, but to bury the pot in the ground for the season. Queens are cheap tp buy, grow amazingly fast, and are pretty cold hardy so you can leave them out longer. I Have two, one in a large foam pot to it's easy to carry and just over winter it in the garage. Other one is in a 5 gallon bucket with a handle(holes in the bottom for drainage) and I just bury the bucket and palm in the ground in the spring and surround it with mulch so it looks like it's planted there. In late fall, just grab the handle and pull out of the ground and stick in the garage. Just don't water it much! and it will over winter fine there.

Zabola · Post by **Zabola** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:19 am

The one in the picture is small and beautifull, impossible to grow here.. great trick though.

kspalmguy · Post by **kspalmguy** » Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:58 pm

My Majesty has popped open two new spears so far, and yes, I am intending to grow it as an annual. They ARE insanely cheap at Lowes...here in Wichita, Lowes used to sell Livistona, but stopped...too bad really:/
Excuse my naivety before...lol

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:22 am

Well do keep an eye out for a Chinese Fan palm, even at Walmart. Couple of years ago a bunch of Walmarts had them here in Omaha. Nice 3/4 foot tall ones for $15 each. Those are the ones I planted in the ground. Or...keep them in over sized pots and just keep them in garage over the winter. They are really tough.

kspalmguy · Post by **kspalmguy** » Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:57 am

Livistona was my very first palm, I bought it when I was probably 10 years old. I managed to overwinter it in the ground, only to have it die the following summer while we were out of town (we were on a 10 day cruise in the West Indies, and my dad's friend watching the house forgot to water it) during a drought...

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:01 am

Wow, to have it make it through a winter...and to loose it when its nice outside. Tough loss.

kspalmguy · Post by **kspalmguy** » Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:02 am

sashaeffer wrote:Wow, to have it make it through a winter...and to loose it when its nice outside. Tough loss.

Yeah, I was pretty devastated:/ I overwintered it by throwing a tomato cage around it and stuffing that with leaves...that spring, it was pretty bad looking, but about 3 weeks later, a new little spear shot out:) We're pretty lucky down here, it rarely gets below zero (probably once every 10-15 years), but when it does, it's only there for an hour or so, and winters tend to stay pretty dry down here (of course, this year was an exception to both rules, it dropped to -2F and stayed there for two days...and we had about a foot of snow on top of that, and freezing rain!)...

bananieru · Post by **bananieru** » Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:39 pm

this was the palm that got me into this.

This is my first post (I had to update the links, as photobucket changed them)
viewtopic.php?p=19318#19318

Who knew that I'll have to build palm huts and heat up the garden during the winter (and what a winter)
Tavi

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:05 pm

Who knew that I'll have to build palm huts and heat up the garden during the winter

That could be PN's new motto, Tavi...

My livinstonia croaked IN THE COLD BUILDING this winter.

Still looks awful and it's been outside for a week.
I stopped cutting off all the dead fronds and left ONE and the spear.

This has happened before but came back once outside in the sun and tons of water.

Barb

kspalmguy · Post by **kspalmguy** » Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:28 pm

Funny how we all got into this mess with one palm, and now we're hooked, and in my case, driving 5 and a half hours to buy more...haha;)

905palms · Post by **905palms** » Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:44 pm

kspalmguy wrote:Funny how we all got into this mess with one palm, and now we're hooked, and in my case, driving 5 and a half hours to buy more...haha;)

Special ppl we are....

bananieru · Post by **bananieru** » Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:50 am

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:16 am

I got the palm bug when I read the article about some very tall Windmill palms planted at a hotel in Des Moines, IA.......

The palms didn't live I guess because the city wouldn't allow a permit to allow the hotel to protect them with heat, although they did construct some metal silo looking things which would keep the wind off of them, but not any warmer.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:31 am

the city wouldn't allow a permit to allow the hotel to protect them with heat

Sounds like laws in our area.
Good ole bureaucrats...gotta keep 'em busy.

Barb

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:33 am

From what I remember, the concern was what if they caught on fire how would they put it out.

I'm sure Hardy Jim knows more details since he lived in Iowa and closer to Des Moines than I do.

You can google Des Moines Palm trees and usually find the pics and the story.

PalmsNorth.com

Die back palm experiment.

Die back palm experiment.

Early July 2013 update

Spring 2014 update...

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